Uptake of nitrogen in different fertilizers?

Bleating Lamb

Like a lot of people have very little grass coming on farm...( even on fields idle for months)....mainly sheep here and a few cattle.
Land heavy by nature but had dried out well the last few weeks that you could travel on it to get fertilizer out.Have none out yet as was afraid of cold temps and heavy frosts at night.In NW where growth usually starts a few weeks after lower half of the country.We has s lot of rain yday but land would still be traffic able in most fields.
Just wondering with 18:6:12 from moment it is spread how long is it roughly until the nitrogen begins to activate and promote grass growth? Had always thought it was around a week but was told the other day it’s only a couple of days?

Same question for urea....how long till it gets to work?
Forecast for a showery cold week next week but am tempted to try a bag of 18:6:12 to the acre tomorrow to get some grass coming on all the farm,could go again with more in a months time.

Thanks for any replies today on how quickly N gets to work.

FeelTheBern

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Like a lot of people have very little grass coming on farm...( even on fields idle for months)....mainly sheep here and a few cattle.
Land heavy by nature but had dried out well the last few weeks that you could travel on it to get fertilizer out.Have none out yet as was afraid of cold temps and heavy frosts at night.In NW where growth usually starts a few weeks after lower half of the country.We has s lot of rain yday but land would still be traffic able in most fields.
Just wondering with 18:6:12 from moment it is spread how long is it roughly until the nitrogen begins to activate and promote grass growth? Had always thought it was around a week but was told the other day it’s only a couple of days?

Same question for urea....how long till it gets to work?
Forecast for a showery cold week next week but am tempted to try a bag of 18:6:12 to the acre tomorrow to get some grass coming on all the farm,could go again with more in a months time.

Thanks for any replies today on how quickly N gets to work.

Have a read through the recent "Urea in frosty conditions" thread - all explained in there!

Say my name

2 days is the usual jingo with all the CAN based fertilisers.
People would tell you Urea takes longer but personally I think it's 2 days with urea too especially if it's just rained after you spread. It's the same principle as diluting urea in a tank of water and then spraying that on and people will tell you how quick that works. I know there's a foliar element too but how and ever.

The best advice is to soil test and see what you need or what you already have.
Tested here and all the land (bar a pony paddock) even leased ground a mile away came back as index 4 for Potash and index 1 for Phosphorus. I've been and my father before me been using 18.6.12 and 27.2.5.5 as well as can and urea since the day squat and seemingly it's made no difference to the index for Phosphorus.
So now I'm gone out with a bag and a half of 22.10.0 + sulphur for the second round after grazing and then as a first for other land (went with urea on some ground before grazing). Uptake is very good since I spread it even though it went out before that heavy rain.
Some of the cows were picking at stones on the laneways these last few years and the soil test would explain why now. Low in phosphorus.
Soil tests were also showing index 4 for magnesium on all the land. Even though I've been spreading calcium lime not magnesium lime these last few years. Ph's were fine. But with the high readings for Potash it was stopping the uptake of magnesium from the grass by the cows and only for I was supplementing minerals and magnesium in the diet I was getting problems with grass tetany and milk fever in the cows. Again I know the reason why now.

The tests also showed very low readings of boron. I had an inkling of this these past few years and the tests showed this.
I will be going with boron in the next round after this one in the fertiliser. Boron allows magnesium (as well as others) into the grass plant and stops calcium being the bully boy and clogging up the plant and slowing growth. Boron is soluble in soil the same as nitrogen and won't last.
It actually comes into the soil naturally from the atmosphere or beyond it but that's another story.

We all know about N P K as macronutrients but increasingly Calcium, Magnesium, Sulphur, Boron are just about to make it to the big league and be called macro too.

wrangler

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Like a lot of people have very little grass coming on farm...( even on fields idle for months)....mainly sheep here and a few cattle.
Land heavy by nature but had dried out well the last few weeks that you could travel on it to get fertilizer out.Have none out yet as was afraid of cold temps and heavy frosts at night.In NW where growth usually starts a few weeks after lower half of the country.We has s lot of rain yday but land would still be traffic able in most fields.
Just wondering with 18:6:12 from moment it is spread how long is it roughly until the nitrogen begins to activate and promote grass growth? Had always thought it was around a week but was told the other day it’s only a couple of days?

Same question for urea....how long till it gets to work?
Forecast for a showery cold week next week but am tempted to try a bag of 18:6:12 to the acre tomorrow to get some grass coming on all the farm,could go again with more in a months time.

Thanks for any replies today on how quickly N gets to work.

I put out 18 6 12 today, but soil temp is only six degrees here so probably won't get a proper response.

charolais0153

wrangler wrote: »

I put out 18 6 12 today, but soil temp is only six degrees here so probably won't get a proper response.

Thats the second round? 4 weeks after the urea?

wrangler

charolais0153 wrote: »

Thats the second round? 4 weeks after the urea?

yea, we've 80 ewes going out on about 11 acres so we'll need to push it if/when it starts growing

Bleating Lamb

FeelTheBern wrote: »

Have a read through the recent "Urea in frosty conditions" thread - all explained in there!

Thanks had it read through.....it does and it doesn't in that people go into a lot of technical knowledge on the different parts of fertiliser and how they breakdown....but unless I missed it (which could happen).....there wasn't a discussion on how long it takes nitrogen to start working(if soil temps ok).So could anyone more versed in this area than my good self ....put a rough estimate on how soon N in 18:6:12 gets working and pushing on grass from day it's applied?

Same ? for Urea and length of time for growth response too?
Plan spreading tomorrow....temps look OK until at least Tues next week so if N was working by then that would help.

Thanks for any feedback.

Bleating Lamb

Appreciate any feedback on this question this am...possibly from Dairy farmers when in from milking as will be going buying fertilizer later this am,thanks.

Mooooo

The general thinking is urea is approx 5 days and can based which most of them are would be up in 2 days whoever this time of year in difficult conditions losses are more likely can based so urea for this round would be my advice and go with 18.6.12 in the next round. Also be no harm to get 18.6.12 + S for the next round. Anything with S can be a balls to spread in damp conditions tho so if you decide to spread 18.6.12 now don't get the sulphur in it

yosemitesam1

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Thanks had it read through.....it does and it doesn't in that people go into a lot of technical knowledge on the different parts of fertiliser and how they breakdown....but unless I missed it (which could happen).....there wasn't a discussion on how long it takes nitrogen to start working(if soil temps ok).So could anyone more versed in this area than my good self ....put a rough estimate on how soon N in 18:6:12 gets working and pushing on grass from day it's applied?

Same ? for Urea and length of time for growth response too?
Plan spreading tomorrow....temps look OK until at least Tues next week so if N was working by then that would help.

Thanks for any feedback.

The only way you might see a difference in a week or two's time would be if you're low in p+k and go with a compound

Bleating Lamb

Mooooo wrote: »

The general thinking is urea is approx 5 days and can based which most of them are would be up in 2 days whoever this time of year in difficult conditions losses are more likely can based so urea for this round would be my advice and go with 18.6.12 in the next round. Also be no harm to get 18.6.12 + S for the next round. Anything with S can be a balls to spread in damp conditions tho so if you decide to spread 18.6.12 now don't get the sulphur in it

Thanks lads for responses....am going to go with 18:6 /12 as ground needs a bit of P and K too,lovely dry morning here,4 tonne ready to go in small bags:(....
Some of ground soft enough so will spread in 4/5 bags at a time.
Owner of co-op was saying he has only got really busy in last 3 or 4 days delivery fertilizer here....as men put off by the cold spell.Hopefully we get a few warmer days now before the cold spell at end of next week.

CloughCasey1

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Thanks lads for responses....am going to go with 18:6 /12 as ground needs a bit of P and K too,lovely dry morning here,4 tonne ready to go in small bags:(....
Some of ground soft enough so will spread in 4/5 bags at a time.
Owner of co-op was saying he has only got really busy in last 3 or 4 days delivery fertilizer here....as men put off by the cold spell.Hopefully we get a few warmer days now before the cold spell at end of next week.

You not worried about the 25mm rain promised on Monday?

wrangler

Say my name wrote: »

2 days is the usual jingo with all the CAN based fertilisers.
People would tell you Urea takes longer but personally I think it's 2 days with urea too especially if it's just rained after you spread. It's the same principle as diluting urea in a tank of water and then spraying that on and people will tell you how quick that works. I know there's a foliar element too but how and ever.

The best advice is to soil test and see what you need or what you already have.
Tested here and all the land (bar a pony paddock) even leased ground a mile away came back as index 4 for Potash and index 1 for Phosphorus. I've been and my father before me been using 18.6.12 and 27.2.5.5 as well as can and urea since the day squat and seemingly it's made no difference to the index for Phosphorus.
So now I'm gone out with a bag and a half of 22.10.0 + sulphur for the second round after grazing and then as a first for other land (went with urea on some ground before grazing). Uptake is very good since I spread it even though it went out before that heavy rain.
Some of the cows were picking at stones on the laneways these last few years and the soil test would explain why now. Low in phosphorus.
Soil tests were also showing index 4 for magnesium on all the land. Even though I've been spreading calcium lime not magnesium lime these last few years. Ph's were fine. But with the high readings for Potash it was stopping the uptake of magnesium from the grass by the cows and only for I was supplementing minerals and magnesium in the diet I was getting problems with grass tetany and milk fever in the cows. Again I know the reason why now.

The tests also showed very low readings of boron. I had an inkling of this these past few years and the tests showed this.
I will be going with boron in the next round after this one in the fertiliser. Boron allows magnesium (as well as others) into the grass plant and stops calcium being the bully boy and clogging up the plant and slowing growth. Boron is soluble in soil the same as nitrogen and won't last.
It actually comes into the soil naturally from the atmosphere or beyond it but that's another story.

We all know about N P K as macronutrients but increasingly Calcium, Magnesium, Sulphur, Boron are just about to make it to the big league and be called macro too.

High nitrogen compunds are useless if you want to raise P index, they'll just maintain levels,, you need to go with straight P fertilisers as well.
Even your 22 10 0 won't be much help either.
More nitrogen grows more grass which in turn uses more phosphorous, very little difference in the nitrogen/phos ratio of 18 6 12 and 22 10 0

Say my name

wrangler wrote: »

High nitrogen compunds are useless if you want to raise P index, they'll just maintain levels,, you need to go with straight P fertilisers as well.
Even your 22 10 0 won't be much help either.
More nitrogen grows more grass which in turn uses more phosphorous, very little difference in the nitrogen/phos ratio of 18 6 12 and 22 10 0

Yea. Good point.

Hard Knocks

wrangler wrote: »

High nitrogen compunds are useless if you want to raise P index, they'll just maintain levels,, you need to go with straight P fertilisers as well.
Even your 22 10 0 won't be much help either.
More nitrogen grows more grass which in turn uses more phosphorous, very little difference in the nitrogen/phos ratio of 18 6 12 and 22 10 0

What about using the likes of Maize Starter 19.16.0?

trixi2011

What about dap 18-46-0 anyone ever use it

charolais0153

trixi2011 wrote: »

What about dap 18-46-0 anyone ever use it

Does anyone sell it. Highest p concentration in fertilisers i see is 10 units

Bleating Lamb

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

You not worried about the 25mm rain promised on Monday?

Find YR weather forecast quite good....my area only getting around 10mm on Monday....will melt it in,will be rain spread through the day too.Started spreading at 12 after all stock looked after.Put our last of 80 bags at 8pm,ground just trafficable in good few spots so could only spread 3 or 4 bags at a time....bit headwrecking but glad to have it out now before the unsettled week next week.
Have good lights front and back on the tractor....needed as It was pitch black as I put out last half tonne:).
Put on a bag and a half to the acre and will put out more next weekend when weather is meant to dry up again.

Bleating Lamb

Got rain here from 5am this morning....enough to melt in the fertilizer....first lambs of the year born today...wrecked tired lying back on couch on second glass of wine watching the games on TG4:)

CloughCasey1

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Got rain here from 5am this morning....enough to melt in the fertilizer....first lambs of the year born today...wrecked tired lying back on couch on second glass of wine watching the games on TG4:)

Ye hung on by the skin of the skin of yer teeth.☺

kevthegaff

How does urea work on bare ground?

visatorro

kevthegaff wrote: »

How does urea work on bare ground?

You'd imagine it would be alright if people go out on paddocks after grazing?

Mooooo

Be fine this t8me of year, in summer more chance of losses on bare ground

trixi2011

charolais0153 wrote: »

trixi2011 wrote: »

What about dap 18-46-0 anyone ever use it

Does anyone sell it. Highest p concentration in fertilisers i see is 10 units

Definitely available in ni and the UK not sure about Ireland after putting out a bag to the acre here hopefully see some results soon

visatorro

trixi2011 wrote: »

Definitely available in ni and the UK not sure about Ireland after putting out a bag to the acre here hopefully see some results soon

Definitely heard of farmers in cavan spreading dap. Not sure where they got it from though

Base price

visatorro wrote: »

Definitely heard of farmers in cavan spreading dap. Not sure where they got it from though

Excuse my ignorance since we don't use chemical fertilisers (except for WBC) but what is "dap".

Mooooo

Di ammonium phosphate. 18 46 0

Hard Knocks

Mooooo wrote: »

Di ammonium phosphate. 18 46 0

Would that be too much P in 1application for silage or grazing?