Expensive scopes

Kran

I've never owned an expensive scope, I only really got back into hunting last year after a good few years away. I've a 223 a 22lr and a spring air rifle. Now all my rifles have Hawke Vantage scopes on them and to me they seem fine. I've never even looked through a Zeiss or Leupold etc. What's the story? Are they really worth that kind of money or are you just paying for a badge at a certain price. Would I benefit greatly as mainly a hunter with a more expensive scope. I've heard the saying spend your money on the scope and change on the rifle but is that more of a saying from old days when cheap scopes were just plain junk.

mulbot

Kran wrote: »

I've never owned an expensive scope, I only really got back into hunting last year after a good few years away. I've a 223 a 22lr and a spring air rifle. Now all my rifles have Hawke Vantage scopes on them and to me they seem fine. I've never even looked through a Zeiss or Leupold etc. What's the story? Are they really worth that kind of money or are you just paying for a badge at a certain price. Would I benefit greatly as mainly a hunter with a more expensive scope. I've heard the saying spend your money on the scope and change on the rifle but is that more of a saying from old days when cheap scopes were just plain junk.

In short,yes. Zeiss scopes are simple unbeatable in quality and function-

photosmart

Hi there

In my opinion the scope quality/price ratio (or utility price) follows that of most
things in life.

For the first €100 you get a basic scope. Jump up to €300 and you see a noticeable difference in quality of glass (and perhaps some features). However the next €300 jump will yield another jump in quality but it will be less noticeable until at the top end you will only notice very marginal differences between say a €1000 scope and a €2000 scope or only under very specific conditions.

I've owned some cheap chinese rubbish for under €100 that worked on my .22 grand. I've also owned S&B, IOR and sightron and have looked through a friends weaver and compared it with my S&B at twilight etc...

I think if you can afford it go for the upper ends of the lower brands ie Bushnell Legend or higher or Sightron SII and above provide good quality per € spent

Another option is top quality glass but less features ie S&B fixed 6x42 or 8x56 is a lot of scope for the money.

Last thing I would want is lots of "features" but rubbish glass

Of course if money no object I would spend thousands because I love optics but as I'm not a tactical user and my scopes generally don't get super high levels of hardship I'm generally happy with mid level scopes for my needs.

Check out www.opticsthoughts.com and for buying there's a few good sites recommended on boards. - I've used optics trade eu and a few uk based ones and they were good for price etc...

Last point is check around for price comparisons if you decide on a new scope. I've seen fairly low end scopes being pricing quite high in some Irish dealers
which might give you the impression you were buying a good scope when you've getting a basic spec for big money.

cheers

P

gunny123

Where you see it, with any type of lenses, is in low light conditions. I had a schmidt and bender rifle scope and could see for 20 or 30 minutes longer at dusk then someone with a cheap scope of the same spec. Ditto binoculars, the leicas i have cost me 800 quid second hand, but if you were to use a cheap pair of argos or lidl bins and then tried the leicas, you would throw the cheap ones in the bin.

I was told the difference is in the glass the lenses are made from, its difficult to make proper lens glass, which makes it expensive. The cheaper brand makers don't bother, use inferior glass and some use plastic which do not transmit the light as well. Also with the coatings, its the same story, the good stuff is difficult to do right, which makes it expensive.

As with so much else in life you get exactly what you pay for. Pay for cheap tat, you get cheap tat. A good piece of advice for deer stalkers was to buy a cheap rifle, but spend plenty on a good scope and mounts.

Kran

I heard a good saying lately actually "buy once, cry once" as in spend a bit on something good and fair enough it will sting but you won't regret it, rather than buying ****e and it breaking your heart forever more. I'm not broke and certainly not tight with my cash but I hate paying for big name brands unless they truly deserve it and the price is warranted. With nearly everything there are big name brands that have outrageous prices, such as Snap on tools or Festool power tools, their prices are undeserved in my opinion and I own brands like Teng and Metabo which are not cheap either but more reasonable and just as good. I was wondering if it was the same in the world of optics.

tikkamark

As has been said there expensive because of the low light performance,edge to edge clarity,sharp image,precision clicks and tracking, I often had to use a lamp to find the foxes I shot with my old kahles scope that I had shot at very last light-I could see the fox crystal clear through the scope but not a hope could I find them with my own eyes without a lamp!!
The hawke will still do the job but the zeiss,Swarovski,kahles S&B ect will just do the job better.

gunny123

Keep an eye on the for sale section here, second hand quality scopes come up from time to time.

cookimonster

I think we've become fixated with glass over here and to some extent the USA has become hooked on long range shooting, well beyond the original hunting capabilities of particular rounds and thus necessitating scopes that are capable if dialing in the POI. With multi media at our finger tips we are able to see these trends, and we (me inculded) can be as fickle as a child in a sweet shop.

By all means I would agree, to a degree, that quality will come at a cost but one must match your wants and desires against your actual needs, finances and practicality. If you have the means to pay for your bucket list of scope choices work away. But personally I can't and won't pay money to stay on the field an extra 10 minutes longer than my buddy and still come away with the same average cull count at the end of season.

Don't get me wrong I have my own vices with scopes - large objective lenses rock my boat and was lucky to get a great deal on a S&B 8x56 Classic and yes the glass is better than anything I've owned to date. But does it suit all my needs? ..No.... in the wood at close (really close) range it's all a blur but out on the hill it's the buisness at distance....but its big and heavier than my mates S&B 6x42 which I've used to great success out beyond 225 yards. Although my 3-12 x 56 Bushnell is perfect for tight woods and it's illuminated dot handy for lamping it's not a patch on the S&B at dawn and dusk......and then again both scopes have much better clarity than my unbranded 6-24 x 50 scope on the .22 complete with target turrets and side paralax but hey what else would I use for plinking at various ranges and the odd bunny bashing that's it's very very capable of?

Contradictions...you bet ya!

If my fox / deer gun was the only one then yeah I'd invest but for lamping the Bushnell works well to the ranges I shoot out to and will suffice for most of the other stalking I do. The S&B sees most work in the woods under dawn and dusk conditions and I can live with the odd close encounter and relish the hill stalks. Both deer calibre will shoot flat enough for me to for go the need for target turrets and dialing in. If I was into competition shooting then yes again I would trade out my scope on the 22 for something that's going to track perfectly etc but since I don't dial for rabbits I'm happy to let alone.


So after waffling .... pick the scope most suitable to your needs and within that thought process spend what you can (sensibly)

ejg

The best scope is useless with a cra p rifle. I'd spend my money on a rifle first then look at what optics I can afford /or what suits. Bit by bit one can improve on optics. If one buys a used 6x42 or 8x56 S&B, even if it is 20-30 years old one will most likely sell it again at the same price a few years later.... they are that good. I steer clear of Chinese scopes, most are just rubbish.
edi

Grizzly 45

It used to be the other way round."Spend your pounds on your scope,and use your loose change for the rifle."
Have used everything from Chinky stuff to Zeiss.

Buy Zeiss,Karl Kaps,Henderzolt, and you don't need anything else for a hunting rifle ever again.Even some of the East bloc glass like IOR ,Valediea,is now getting on par with the big names.The glass does make the difference between 10 mins more hunting in the evening or 10 mins earlier in the morning.

My advice is;Go and look thru many scopes until you find one that you really like and that You can see clearly thru too , as your eyesight is not the same as everyone else's and you need to be able to adjust the scope to your eyesight as well, and is the utter limit of your budget and buy it with the best mounts possible.Then LEARN the scope.Learn its functions, it's capabilities in day and night conditions and then learn how well it will perform on your rifle.

Unless you make a living out of dropping Taliban soldiers at 1000yards plus.Or are punching paper out at the same distance Do you really need Mil Dots and range estimation scales on your hunting scope? What distance and what are you shooting plays a big part too.No point in spending big money,if say you hunt wild boar over slugs at 50 meters in a forest.A red dot will do fine there. But if you are dropping gazelles in an African plain at 400 meters.Then your glass is everything. Sometimes,you just need to access your capabilities and needs honestly and discover you can save yourself a fortune with a mid-price scope,rather than paying huge money for a scope that will out shoot you .:)

Kran

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

It used to be the other way round."Spend your pounds on your scope,and use your loose change for the rifle."
Have used everything from Chinky stuff to Zeiss.

Buy Zeiss,Karl Kaps,Henderzolt, and you don't need anything else for a hunting rifle ever again.Even some of the East bloc glass like IOR ,Valediea,is now getting on par with the big names.The glass does make the difference between 10 mins more hunting in the evening or 10 mins earlier in the morning.

My advice is;Go and look thru many scopes until you find one that you really like and that You can see clearly thru too , as your eyesight is not the same as everyone else's and you need to be able to adjust the scope to your eyesight as well, and is the utter limit of your budget and buy it with the best mounts possible.Then LEARN the scope.Learn its functions, it's capabilities in day and night conditions and then learn how well it will perform on your rifle.

Unless you make a living out of dropping Taliban soldiers at 1000yards plus.Or are punching paper out at the same distance Do you really need Mil Dots and range estimation scales on your hunting scope? What distance and what are you shooting plays a big part too.No point in spending big money,if say you hunt wild boar over slugs at 50 meters in a forest.A red dot will do fine there. But if you are dropping gazelles in an African plain at 400 meters.Then your glass is everything. Sometimes,you just need to access your capabilities and needs honestly and discover you can save yourself a fortune with a mid-price scope,rather than paying huge money for a scope that will out shoot you .:)

Well I've a mill dot reticule on my air rifle which I must say is handy because of the loopy trajectory. It's a Hawke and is spring air rifle rated so I can't see myself changing that one.
On my .22lr is another Hawke with a .22 subsonic round specific reticle. It's all I ever shoot with it because I don't really target shoot as of yet. You zero it at 50 and it has hold over marks every 25 with the distances written on the reticule. It's actually quite good and I've tested it at An Riocht range out to 200 and it's more accurate than I'd have thought. Pretty pointless in one sense as I shoot nothing farther than 100 with my .22lr.
Now my .223 is where I'm thinking of investing. I've another Hawke on it, it's very new but I made the mistake of getting one without AO. It does the job but it's my Fox rifle so better dawn& dusk performance would be handy.

gunny123

ejg wrote: »

The best scope is useless with a cra p rifle. I'd spend my money on a rifle first then look at what optics I can afford /or what suits. Bit by bit one can improve on optics. If one buys a used 6x42 or 8x56 S&B, even if it is 20-30 years old one will most likely sell it again at the same price a few years later.... they are that good. I steer clear of Chinese scopes, most are just rubbish.
edi

You can buy good rifles for small money, used cz's for instance. I had an old parker hale in .270, paid less than 200 notes for it, and mounted my 600 euro schmidt and bender on it, you could drop deer from now until doomsday with that set up.

Too many lads into have the latest and coolest gear with all the bells and whistles, so buy a cheapanese scope with bdc, adjustable objective, illuminated reticle, and useless cheap plastic lenses.

meathstevie

I've owned a Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40 with a bog standard cross hairs for over ten years now. It's lived on an old Anschutz .22 Hornet and for the last couple of years on a CZ .308. I've shot running foxes with it under a lamp in excess of 100 meters and on the .308 I've taken deer cleanly on grazing land overgrown with shrubs at around 400 meters.

It's by no means a high end Zeiss but the quality of the glass makes a big difference. When I look through a friend' scope ( I forget what brand ) that cost him about the same at first or last light I see a green and brown blur. The entry level Zeiss allows me to see individual trees and bushes in the background and whatever is in front of it. I got it from the US duty and all for less than €500 back in the day.

Kran

Thanks to everyone for all the replies. I think I'm gonna try and get a Schmidt & Bender Klassik second hand. They seem to get great reviews and they are not astronomically priced either. If anyone has any good websites that they have used and find good I'd be grateful for a heads up.

rsole1

Kran wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for all the replies. I think I'm gonna try and get a Schmidt & Bender Klassik second hand. They seem to get great reviews and they are not astronomically priced either. If anyone has any good websites that they have used and find good I'd be grateful for a heads up.

https://www.opticswarehouse.co.uk/product/schmidt-bender-klassik-8x56-hungarian/

https://www.opticswarehouse.co.uk/product/preowned-schmidt-bender-klassik-10x42-a7-german-riflescope/

gunny123

http://rmacleod.co.uk/Category/Optics/Riflescopes

http://rmacleod.co.uk/Product/7808

http://rmacleod.co.uk/Product/7807

http://rmacleod.co.uk/Product/7826