Are Irish salaries sustainable

realitykeeper

The average Irish salary is more than 10 times that of mineral rich Russia. Ireland also funds a welfare state which pays a hell of a lot more than most countries around the world. Ireland has a national dept of over 200 billion euro which is hefty for the size of our population. Most of our exports are generated by foreign multinationals and those companies are directly (or indirectly - via employees, spin-off services, etc) paying a lot of the taxes in this country. Ireland has only nearly managed to stop deficit spending this year, - a full decade after the great recession and just when the stock markets are frothy enough for another recession in the not too distant future. Ireland, borrows to fund third world countries.

As for Europe, how will the EU dig us out next time a recession comes? More QE and 0% interest rates? That would destroy the Euro as well as the Eurozone because Germany would walk.

Question: Is Ireland`s average salary sustainable?

delta_bravo

Yes

Widdensushi

No

superbluedub

maybe

listermint

What does Irish salary's have to do with Russia...

ELM327

I don't know

ebbsy

Everybody is blaming Russia for everything these days.

A2LUE42

Can you repeat the question?

0ph0rce0

Is this one of these "I Make Loads Of Money" but everyone else should get 4 euro an hour threads.

ELM327

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

Is this one of these "I Make Loads Of Money" but everyone else should get 4 euro an hour threads.

You're not the boss of me now.

893bet

The "Germany" would walk shows great insight.

UK are strolling casually into the distance smoking a cigarette and wearing a nice Armani suit.

gozunda

What do IBEC say?

According to them we've never had it better- but some disagree ...

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/so-you-ve-never-been-wealthier-why-we-beg-to-differ-1.3348372.

Sleeper12

Mine is

thierry14

It's sustainable as long as we can meet min interest payments on our debt

Every country in the world is in debt

It does not really matter that we owe 200 billion

No country is ever expected to pay of all debt

Its a completely stupid system, so wouldn't worry about it

davo10

listermint wrote: »

What does Irish salary's have to do with Russia...

Presumably, when doing a comparative analysis, you need something to compare it with. Picking Russia probably wasn't the best way of going about it, the scales of economy, workforce, GDP, minerals etc mean our wage levels cannot be compared.

But, the op is making a valid point. Our average industrial wage is the fifth highest in Europe, higher than Germany, UK, France etc. It will be hard for businesses to retain competitiveness with labour costs so high.


https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.reinisfischer.com/average-salary-european-union-2017%3famp

TanyGray

You need the high wages to support the high taxes.

davo10

thierry14 wrote: »

It's sustainable as long as we can meet min interest payments on our debt

Every country in the world is in debt

It does not really matter that we owe 200 billion

No country is ever expected to pay of all debt

Its a completely stupid system, so wouldn't worry about it

Actually it's a very complex and important system which is very worrying for a recovering/fragile economy. Higher wages mean higher production costs and with the UK about to break off from the EU, our biggest export market is potentially going to diminish. You mention €200b, that coincidentally is one of the figures being quoted as the potential loss to Irish exporters over the coming years.

davo10

TanyGray wrote: »

You need the high wages to support the high taxes.

Germany has lower wages, and higher taxes.

backspin.

Our welfare state will be unsustainable as we let more and more people in who have large families and do not cover their costs.

theboringfox

I am mid 30s and worry my salary has peaked. I think though Ireland is in a good position but open economy so things can go wrong. It's tech and pace of change worries me. Just worried my job is taken out or outsourced abroad to cheaper market. I try to save most of my wage as a result. But I'm also one of those people who worries too much.

Wanderer78

I think the question should be, why is there so much private debt around the place and how do we deal with it going forward?

Blacktie.

backspin. wrote:

Our welfare state will be unsustainable as we let more and more people in who have large families and do not cover their costs.

There it is. Took longer than I thought for this to pop up.

Arrival

Blacktie. wrote: »

There it is. Took longer than I thought for this to pop up.

What's wrong with his point? It's not wrong that a country can only allow so many non-working people in before they begin hurting themselves economically

ebbsy

ebbsy wrote: »

Everybody is blaming Russia for everything these days.

It beats blaming da gubberment.

hognef

davo10 wrote: »

Our average industrial wage is the fifth highest in Europe

Fifth highest, with only these 9 countries higher..?

Liechtenstein, Switzerland, Iceland, Norway, Denmark, Luxembourg, Finland, Sweden, Faroe Islands

MissShihTzu

OP also forgets Ireland has one of the highest CoL in the EU...

BarryD2

So give us some figures for Irish salaries across various sectors and grades. How can we comment? Are we supposed to just know?

I suspect that PS salaries and conditions are too high for middle and higher ranking public servants, but that's just a hunch.

People like to give out about wages but few enough are happy to disclose what they're on.

For the record, I'm self employed and may taxable earnings have varied from sub €30K to €40K over past several years. Hardly a princely sum.

stateofflux

don't forget cost of living and disposable income..

davo10

BarryD2 wrote: »

So give us some figures for Irish salaries across various sectors and grades. How can we comment? Are we supposed to just know?

I suspect that PS salaries and conditions are too high for middle and higher ranking public servants, but that's just a hunch.

People like to give out about wages but few enough are happy to disclose what they're on.

For the record, I'm self employed and may taxable earnings have varied from sub €30K to €40K over past several years. Hardly a princely sum.

It's difficult to compare sectors because different countries have strong sectors, e.g. IT in Ireland, financial in London etc. The sector most often used is the "industrial wage", this job type tends to be broadly similar in all countries so is a good yardstick by which to measure average employee pay rates.

I don't think self employed earnings is what is being discussed here, it is wages/cost of doing business/cost of running PS.

Franz Von Peppercorn

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

Is this one of these "I Make Loads Of Money" but everyone else should get 4 euro an hour threads.

This guy believes that countries that pay good wages are doomed. For no sane economic reason I can think of. He has nothing to say about profit though.

Franz Von Peppercorn

thierry14 wrote: »

It's sustainable as long as we can meet min interest payments on our debt

Every country in the world is in debt

It does not really matter that we owe 200 billion

No country is ever expected to pay of all debt

Its a completely stupid system, so wouldn't worry about it

What has debt (owed by the government) got to do with wages? This discussion isn’t about the public sector entirely. Surely if the private sector got less money via wages the debt burden becomes more extreme.

Franz Von Peppercorn

davo10 wrote: »

Presumably, when doing a comparative analysis, you need something to compare it with. Picking Russia probably wasn't the best way of going about it, the scales of economy, workforce, GDP, minerals etc mean our wage levels cannot be compared.

But, the op is making a valid point. Our average industrial wage is the fifth highest in Europe, higher than Germany, UK, France etc. It will be hard for businesses to retain competitiveness with labour costs so high.


https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.reinisfischer.com/average-salary-european-union-2017%3famp

Businesses are competitive if they make profits. In general higher salaries are a reward for greater productivity. Higher wages are hardly a problem for Facebook etc. Local businesses in IT do have to meet those salaries but that’s true in Silicon Valley where wages are even higher.

Big problem in Ireland is the difference between what a company has to pay for a service and the disposable income (after tax, rent etc) of the employee.

The very low level at which companies have to register for VAT here in comparison to Britain is shocking.

Charles Babbage

Ireland has a very substantial balance of payments surplus with the rest of the world. Consequently, it is paying its way and the general salaries are appropriate, whatever about the detail of particular sectors.

emo72

realitykeeper wrote: »

As for Europe, how will the EU dig us out next time a recession comes?

Question: Is Ireland`s average salary sustainable?

as i remember it, the eu buried us under 200 billion in debt. a debt that shouldnt have been foisted on us. we were actually threatened with a "bomb going off in dublin". to our dear eu members i say thanks, we'll look after ourselves next time.

davo10

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Businesses are competitive if they make profits. In general higher salaries are a reward for greater productivity. Higher wages are hardly a problem for Facebook etc. Local businesses in IT do have to meet those salaries but that’s true in Silicon Valley where wages are even higher.

Big problem in Ireland is the difference between what a company has to pay for a service and the disposable income (after tax, rent etc) of the employee.

The very low level at which companies have to register for VAT here in comparison to Britain is shocking.

Oh boy.

Businesses make profit if they are competitive, if they charge more for their goods & services then their competitors, then profitability declines as gross income declines.

Higher wages are not a reward for higher productivity, in the PS they are a result of agreements between government and unions, and this is now being mirrored in the private sector.

Whatever FB/Google/Intel etc pay in wages here, it is more than offset by the low CT. If they were paying 40% tax on profits, would they be here?

backspin.

Blacktie. wrote: »

There it is. Took longer than I thought for this to pop up.

Ah yeah let's just ignore uncomfortable points like that.

BarryD2

davo10 wrote: »

I don't think self employed earnings is what is being discussed here, it is wages/cost of doing business/cost of running PS.

True but I can hardly ask for more detail if not forthcoming myself

So, what's it at. Lots of waffle, less substance - let's have some figures....

Isn't this part of the 'problem' - people are happy to discuss everyone else's 'inflated' wages, but not their own income!!

Stheno

Thread closed not a work subject