Combined Ireland/NZ team-who makes the cut?

Bleating Lamb

So as we bask in the afterglow of a magnificent 6 Nations where Ireland overcame the loss of Key players through unavailability (likes of SOB) and attritional injuries (Henshaw etc) to record a Grand Slam who would make a combined 1 to 23 squad from Ireland and Zew Zealand?
That’s presuming both sides had a clean bill of health to pick from.

Just setting the discussion ball rolling as busy out farming at the moment....it’s that time of year:)

thomond2006

Tadhg Furlong

Zzippy

thomond2006 wrote: »

Tadhg Furlong

Furlong is the new Hayes?

I was just thinking about this yesterday. Of course, I'm biased, but I would still take the AB's in almost every position.....yet somehow as a team Ireland seem very formidable at the moment.

awec

I think Furlong is the only one who would be sure of a spot but there are a few more who'd be in with a good shout.

Wegians89

Surely bundee is the best qualified for that team selection

prawnsambo

If this headline on stuff.co.nz is anything to go by; Joe Schmidt.

Elvisjuice

murray

Buer

Zzippy wrote: »

Furlong is the new Hayes?

It's not going to be easy to take the p*ss out of Furlong constantly to annoy Thomond.

Plus, unlike Hayes, Furlong is actually decent.

Elvisjuice

Elvisjuice wrote: »

murray

I honestly don't think he'd get picked for NZ. He does what he does brilliantly for us but NZ play so differently.

Runswithfeet

Furlong,Ringrose and Sexton.

padser

Joe Schmidt

Runswithfeet

Runswithfeet wrote: »

Furlong,Ringrose and Sexton.

Sexton ahead of the back-to-back world player of the year. Big call.

pickarooney

Kearney over Ben Smith, just to watch the internet in New Zealand burn down.

ELM327

Stockdale

pickarooney

I think Furlong is Ireland's standout player in that if you asked fans of the top 10 nations which one of Ireland's players they'd take he'd come out on top by some distance.

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

Stockdale

Doubt it.

Henry Ford III

Furlong and maybe Murray. That's all.

Wegians89

Would you shift Barrett to full back to accommodate Sexton at ten? Or is that not on

one world order

Furlong, Stander, Murray and possibly Ringrose.

Buer

We put NZ on a pedestal still. We have several players who would have very good claims on a jersey in a combined side. Both props, a flanker, halfbacks and possibly a centre would all be in the mix.

Zzippy

one world order wrote: »

Furlong, Stander, Murray and possibly Ringrose.

Stander?! Not a prayer.

d.pop

Ah jeebus, if Schmidt goes on to coach the All blacks we might as well all just give up. That raw talent combined with joes coaching style would be unstoppable.

baylah17

Murray
Furlong

ELM327

baylah17 wrote: »

Murray
Furlong

How many times do you see an NZ SH box kicking during the game? They play the halfback position completely different to us. Murray wouldnt get in the NZ team

Water John

Murray will play whatever way he is asked to play. Best scrum half in the world. Tadhg Furlong is an extraordinary athlete. Watched the match again last night on TV3. One certainly wouldn't come around close to a ruck as TF is always in front of you and your's only going backways. But it's his recovery and back into line is as quick as a centre.

irishman86

one world order wrote: »

Furlong, Stander, Murray and possibly Ringrose.

Ringrose :pac:
He wont even start when Henshaw is back but will be making the AB's

Peregrine

Maxine Purring Babyhood wrote: »

I honestly don't think he'd get picked for NZ. He does what he does brilliantly for us but NZ play so differently.

ELM327 wrote: »

How many times do you see an NZ SH box kicking during the game? They play the halfback position completely different to us. Murray wouldnt get in the NZ team

And Aaron Smith wouldn't get picked for Ireland because we play the SH so differently.

Read the OP. It's not "How many Irish players would get into the NZ team?". Saying Murray wouldn't get selected for a combined Ireland/NZ team because Murray doesn't suit NZ's tactics doesn't make any sense.

As Buer said, we put NZ on a pedestal.

Buer

irishman86 wrote: »

Ringrose :pac:
He wont even start when Henshaw is back but will be making the AB's

Ringrose is our first choice 13. Aki and Henshaw are fighting for the same jersey.

irishbucsfan

ELM327 wrote: »

How many times do you see an NZ SH box kicking during the game? They play the halfback position completely different to us. Murray wouldnt get in the NZ team

They really don't play completely different to us.

ELM327

Peregrine wrote: »

And Aaron Smith wouldn't get picked for Ireland because we play the SH so differently.

Read the OP. It's not "How many Irish players would get into the NZ team?". Saying Murray wouldn't get selected for a combined Ireland/NZ team because Murray doesn't suit NZ's tactics doesn't make any sense.

As Buer said, we put NZ on a pedestal.

We do put them on a pedestal because they are the best team in the world, have been in some time, and as a country we have only beaten them once. Pedestal deserved.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

They really don't play completely different to us.

No, they do share some similarities alright, they play a 15 man game with an egg shaped ball, 3 fat guys, 2 tall guys, 3 strong guys with lower leg strength, stamina, eye for the breakdown, 1 guy thats a good passer, 1 guy thats a good kicker, two centres, two fast guys and a guy that can catch the ball and kick the garryowen.

But that's - on a joking high level - where it ends as for similarity

prawnsambo

irishman86 wrote: »

Ringrose :pac:
He wont even start when Henshaw is back but will be making the AB's

Except for the fact that when both were fit, they both started. :rolleyes:

swiwi_

It's moment like these when you need the neutral view from Switzerland. So without further ado

Forwards
1. Joe Moody. Was in superb form for NZ in 2017. Anyone who chooses Healy or McGrath did not watch Moody in 2017. Currently injured.
2. Dan Coles. Kind of based on reputation, because he hasn't been sighted for many months now really owing to injury.
3. Tadgh Furlong. Owen Franks is good. Furlong is better. Franks is currently injured in any case.
4. Brodie Retallick. NZ's greatest lock of the professional era.
5. Sam Whitelock. But the gap to Ryan & Henderson is not that big at all. Currently injured.
6. Sean O'Brien. Had to find a place. Currently injured.
7. Sam Cane. Was probably NZ's best forward of 2017.
8. Kieran Read. Currently injured.

Forward reserves
16. Cian Healy
17. Codie Taylor
18. Owen Franks
19. Iain Henderson, but you could swap in James Ryan. NZ's reserve locks are not as good as these two IMO.
20. Liam Squire, maybe (but injured). But you can make good cases for Jordi Murphy and Dan Leavy. I'm also a big fan of VDF (injured).

Backs
9. Conor Murray. But Ireland would always pick Murray and NZ Smith based on the different style of play.
10. Beauden Barrett. But Ireland would always pick Sexton and NZ Barrett based on the different style of pay.
11. Rieko Ioane.
12 & 13. Crotty (injured) & Ringrose. This is hard because both NZ and Ireland haven't definitively settled on their midfields IMO. The default for NZ is Crotty/SBW, but I'm a fan of Laumape and Jack Goodhue. I highly rate Ringrose, Henshaw (injured) defends very well, and Aki brings some raw polynesian power. Anton Liernert-Brown has his moments too, but a bit of 2nd season syndrome in 2017. I went with the 2 most "intelligent" players
14. Jacob Stockdale. We'll move him to the right wing
15. Ben Smith.

Back reserves
21. Smith
22. Sexton
23. SBW.

So what's that
NZ - 15
Ireland - 8

There is really not that much separating the sides...which is why they are currently ranked 1 & 2. It would be fun to see a match with Smith & Barrett at 9 and 10 for Ireland and Murray and Sexton at 9 and 10 for NZ.

NZ currently has a lot of injuries to AB players, especially in the front row, where all 4 first choice props are currently injured

Currently injured ABs (selected in 2017)
Atu Moli, Dominic Bird, Kane Hames, Nepo Laulala, Dane Coles, Nehe Milner-Skudder, Jeffery Toomaga-Allen, Owen Franks, Joe Moody, Tim Perry, Kieran Read, Sam Whitelock, Ryan Crotty, Israel Dagg, Richie Mo'unga, Liam Squire

Bridge93

Would agree with Swiwi apart from Stockdale. As good as he's been I just couldn't pick him yet. Personally think NMS is a freak. Would also push Smith to wing and maybe play Barrett 3.0 but he's a bit more in the Stockdale book. Would pick Leavy over Squire but again may be a bit quick off the back of a breakout competition

sydthebeat

Peregrine wrote: »

And Aaron Smith wouldn't get picked for Ireland because we play the SH so differently.
.

Nah

Apart from how they defend, both Aaron and Conor play a very similar type of game and both could slot into the others international team really enough. Smith actually has a sharper and longer pass that could work well in the Irish context.

I said before the England game that I reckon Ireland currently have the best half back pairing in the world and I stick by that.

This game in November is going to be epic.

ELM327

sydthebeat wrote: »

Nah

Apart from how they defend, both Aaron and Conor play a very similar type of game and both could slot into the others international team really enough. Smith actually has a sharper and longer pass that could work well in the Irish context.

I said before the England game that I reckon Ireland currently have the best half back pairing in the world and I stick by that.

This game in November is going to be epic.

As a halfback pairing, I would tend to agree. There isn't a better 9-10 partnership, on better form, than Murray and Sexton right now imo.

irishbucsfan

ELM327 wrote: »

We do put them on a pedestal because they are the best team in the world, have been in some time, and as a country we have only beaten them once. Pedestal deserved.

No, they do share some similarities alright, they play a 15 man game with an egg shaped ball, 3 fat guys, 2 tall guys, 3 strong guys with lower leg strength, stamina, eye for the breakdown, 1 guy thats a good passer, 1 guy thats a good kicker, two centres, two fast guys and a guy that can catch the ball and kick the garryowen.

But that's - on a joking high level - where it ends as for similarity

This is ****e talk really. The two team's K/P/R is actually quite similar, Aaron Smith is also used as a kicking option for NZ.

ELM327

irishbucsfan wrote: »

This is ****e talk really. The two team's K/P/R is actually quite similar, Aaron Smith is also used as a kicking option for NZ.

Ok so. Good point well made.

corny

ELM327 wrote: »

Ok so. Good point well made.

NZ kick the leather off the ball. Smith box kicks (in his own half) as much as the next man. The point doesn't need to be made if you watch NZ.

Bleating Lamb

Regarding the Autumn Internationals....which myself and a few friends have turned into a meet up and session afterwards a few times!:)....I actually forget when typically do tickets go on sale for games and regarding NZ game (which will undoubtedly attract a lot of interest) how many tickets will be made available to open market on Ticketmaster....I presume Rugby Clubs,Schools etc will hoover up a lot of ticket allocation?

Thanks for any feedback.

The Lost Sheep

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Regarding the Autumn Internationals....which myself and a few friends have turned into a meet up and session afterwards a few times!:)....I actually forget when typically do tickets go on sale for games and regarding NZ game (which will undoubtedly attract a lot of interest) how many tickets will be made available to open market on Ticketmaster....I presume Rugby Clubs,Schools etc will hoover up a lot of ticket allocation?

Thanks for any feedback.

Tickets wont be on sale until early Summer most likely. Clubs, schools, provincial branches(and their committees), referees all get allocations and take up most seats.

Dubinusa

Ferg. Dave k, and TOH.

.ak

Personally would love to see this team:

1. Healy
2. Coles
3. Furlong
4. Retallick
5. Whitelock
6. Leavy
7. Cane
8. Read
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Ioane
12. SBW
13. Ringrose
14. Earls
15. Barrett

16. Cronin
17. Moody
18. Franks
19. Ryan
20. SOB
21. Smith
22. Carbery
23. Naholo

That team has a lovely mix of power and pace, the idea of Sexton threading SBW onto soft shoulders and Ringrose collecting that trade mark offload would have teams chasing shadows. Barrett has to be on the team for me, his pace just causes all sorts of problems, and he can do that from 15 as a 2nd receiver. Serious upping of pace again if Smith and Joey come off the bench, with plenty of firepower in the form of Naholo, SOB and Ryan.

Also you could start Naholo and have Larmour on the bench. Is Larmour world class? Not yet, but the idea of him popping up in space in a team littered in that sort of quality would result in tries.

Locke_Lamora

I've now spent a stupid amount of time thinking about this instead of working, so i might as well post it (I'm assuming no injuries):

1. Healy - I didn't think it was a bad call not to bring him with the lions, but he's back to a level I didn't think he'd reach again. 
2. Coles - My heart says Best...but it's wrong. Coles brings a lot more in attack. 
3. Furlong - He's a step above everyone right now. 
4. Retallick - Best lock in the world by a comfortable enough margin. 
5. Whitelock - Henderson and Ryan wouldn't be a bad shout, but Whitelock just edges it. 
6. O'Brien - Going to copy swiwi here. A fit and firing Sean O'Brien has to be in the team. 
7. Cane - Tackling machine, rarely concedes ground, and does the dirty work. I'm a huge Leavy fan - he's been immense and is a similar type of player, but in the end this was an easy enough call to make. 
8. Read - Can't wait for his comeback. His running lines and handling are close to perfection. 
9. Murray - This is probably the toughest call to make. Ideally you'd probably keep the half-back pairings together, but I'm trying to just pick the better player in each position. I'm biased so Murray edges it. 
10. Barrett - I feel dirty not picking Sexton after that drop goal, but Barrett is one of my favourite players to watch when he's playing his best rugby. He's unplayable. 
11. Ioane - Probably the only player to take to international rugby better than James Ryan. Apologies to Stockdale, I'll maybe pencil you in on the bench. 
12. Hmm, it's getting tricky now. I wanna say McClockey but...Henshaw it is. He's a workhorse, dependable, and an excellent defender. Crotty just misses out because I don't think he's been as reliable as he once was. 
13. Ringrose - Good in defence and with the ball in hand. Goodhue could definitely overtake him once he's spent a bit more time with the allblacks. 
14. Dagg - On a sabbatical still I think. But he came back from a serious injury last year and fitted in seamlessly - and I'd back him to do the same again. He's often overlooked because he's not as flashy as the like of Naholo and NMS, but he's fantastic in the air, has a great boot, and his handling and decision making in the wide channels are unreal. 
15. Smith - Easiest decision to make. Reliable in defence, and you'd always back him to win the contest in the air. In attack he rarely doesn't wriggle out of the first tackle. Looks like an accountant though, so Kearney wins that battle.

MDunne14

Only players that get in first 15 are Cian Healy (on current form) , furlong , omahony as kaino is leaving and they’d appreciate his skill set a lot more down there than a lot of us do and that’s it maybe stockdale in a few years. For me I’m not sure if Murray even makes the 23 as Aaron smith proved in lions series he’s ahead of him and off the bench for last 20 minutes perenara offers a bigger impact.. arguement to be made that a fit sob would get in at 7

titan18

I think you'd have to account for guys playing overseas who aren't available to be selected for NZ or Ireland, but hypothetically that restriction wouldn't be there for this. Likes of Piutau would be a near certainty and a few others like Nonu, Conrad Smith etc maybe coming into the conversation then, even if they are ancient.