The citizen`s assembly and subversion of the state

realitykeeper

This citizen`s assembly was supposedly representative of the people and 85% of the citizens referendum agreed with the recommendation they made.

Therefore, we the people should expect approximately 85% of the electorate to vote the same way as the citizen`s assembly recommended and if we don`t, questions will need to be asked.

Specifically, how representative was the citizen`s assembly? Was the citizen`s assembly an attempt to subvert public opinion and if so, was it partially successful? If it was, can any outcome of the referendum be trusted? Given the state`s history of funding referendum propaganda (250,000 punts for the pro-divorce lobby in that referendum back in the 1990s), is the citizen`s assembly a way around legislation to directly fund subversive propaganda? And finally, can the country afford yet another dead end tribunal which will answer none of the above?

dudara

The Citizen's Assembly is supposed to be representative yes, but remember that they also had multiple experts and professionals speak to them, from both sides. They got much more information delivered straight to them than the average punter. Therefore, we honestly can't expect the same pattern from the general electorate.

realitykeeper

dudara wrote: »

The Citizen's Assembly is supposed to be representative yes, but remember that they also had multiple experts and professionals speak to them, from both sides. They got much more information delivered straight to them than the average punter. Therefore, we honestly can't expect the same pattern from the general electorate.

So you are saying the public will not hear from any expert in the media over the course of the referendum campaign? No, I think it is far more likely that any divergence in the outcome of the referendum from the 85% of the "representatives" will be a partial measure of any subversive energies applied to the referendum. I say partial, because subversion can of course succeed to some extent.

Grolschevik

The Citizens' Assembly was an exercise in what's known as 'deliberative democracy', where participants research, reflect, mull over, and ultimately decide after a process of, yep, deliberation.

Your ordinary voter in any referendum won't have experienced that process.

There's an argument in democratic theory that voter education and preparation for any voting event should try to approximate the deliberative approach so as to maximise informed participation.

The Assembly is likely to be unrepresentative of the mass of voters for the simple reason that most of that mass haven't reflectively deliberated and debated on the topic at hand to anything like the same extent.

If you want closer representativeness to popular opinion, that's what opinion polls are for.

You won't have the same turnout in a vote - the assembly might be representative but a big chunk of those people it represents won't vote in a referendum.

Grolschevik

To put it another way, it's a bit like the difference between a jury that hears and discusses all the evidence in a case, versus the guy down the pub giving you his take on the case based on what he read in the papers.

realitykeeper

Grolschevik wrote: »

To put it another way, it's a bit like the difference between a jury that hears and discusses all the evidence in a case, versus the guy down the pub giving you his take on the case based on what he read in the papers.

That sounds King Arthur and the knights of the round table. Of course, a monarchy is a dictatorship. Ireland must decide if it wants to be an dictatorship or an untainted democracy.

Also, there are two kinds of right and two kinds of wrong. The academic kind e.g. 1 + 1 = 2 and the more sophisticated moral kind e.g. It is right to be honest and it is wrong to kill.

hullaballoo

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