Smart Immersion

Shane732

I’m looking for a smart immersion - any suggestions?

Wearb

Shane732 wrote: »

I’m looking for a smart immersion - any suggestions?

Could you elaborate a little more please? What are you thinking of? Immersion heater in the copper cylinder? What is your goal?

Shane732

Wearb wrote: »

Could you elaborate a little more please? What are you thinking of? Immersion heater in the copper cylinder? What is your goal?

There is currently a standard timed immersion for the hot water. Something like this

I would like to switch it out with a smart immersion that allows me to control the hot water from my phone etc...

Wearb

Shane732 wrote: »

There is currently a standard timed immersion for the hot water. Something like this

I would like to switch it out with a smart immersion that allows me to control the hot water from my phone etc...

Have a look at Sonoff for a start. They make a 16 a version, if you felt that you needed a little latitude.

xl500

Shane732 wrote: »

I’m looking for a smart immersion - any suggestions?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Timeguard-Controlled-Timeswitch-Socket-FSTWIFI/dp/B07228W28L/ref=pd_sbs_201_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=RAZHDBTW2RQEVKJ76WJ6

A2LUE42

Has anyone used this or done something similar that they could recommend?

This was almost 5 years ago, so would assume there are more options now, from a reputable supplier.

coylemj

I have this unit and it does what it says on the tin - you can control the immersion from your mobile phone, including kicking off a one or two hour boost and you can set set multiple on/off cycles each day, based on a seven day cycle.

The timer unit sits between the mains feed and the Sink/Bath switch. So for an existing setup, you divert the mains feed to the timer and run a three core (Live+Neutral+Earth) cable from the timer to the Sink/Bath switch. The timer connects to your house Wi-Fi and you install an app on your mobile. The network connection works from anywhere, you don't have to be at home on Wi-Fi for the app to talk to the timer.

Before you ask: 'can I remove the Sink/Bath switch and use the smart timer to control both elements'? Short answer is no. All of the two channel smart timers available in this part of the world restrict the Bath element to Economy 7 (off-peak) hours while letting you have full control over the Sink element. So in my case, I have to manually flip between Sink and Bath, the timer does the rest.

https://www.timeguard.com/products/time/immersion-and-general-purpose-timeswitches/wi-fi-controlled-fused-spur

inigo

@coylemj Thank you for that post. I would like to get a similar setup.

Can I ask you how long you've had the smart switch and has it given you any trouble?

I suppose the on/off button is for manual operation?

Is there any way to set a shorter boost, e.g. 20 min, even if it is manually turning off from the app? Perhaps the Tuya version can do it?

A2LUE42

FSTWIFI is now installed and the version is compatible with Alexa and Google home, so very easy to set up routines for times. Very happy with it working. Was a bit painful to pair as Sky broadband merges 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz networks and this only works with 2.4Ghz. It failed 7 or 8 times before connecting and then updating the unit. £58 from Amazon was a great price.

coylemj

Can I ask you how long you've had the smart switch and has it given you any trouble?

I've had it installed since 2018, the unit has never given me any problems. The timed on/off program relies on a server in the UK and the servers have been down twice (for just a few hours) in that period. So it is possible to wake up with no hot water!

I suppose the on/off button is for manual operation?

Yes, if you press that square button, it goes into manual mode. The timer goes into permanant 'on' mode and you press the button again to switch it off. You use the app to put the timer back to timed/auto mode.

Is there any way to set a shorter boost, e.g. 20 min, even if it is manually turning off from the app? Perhaps the Tuya version can do it?

Yes, the only way to set a shorter boost is to do it manually i.e. click the boost button in the app, then cancel it 20 minutes later.

There isn't a rigid one to one pairing between the timer and one mobile device, you can install the s/w on any number of tablets and phones and any of them can be used to control the timer. The on/off cycles are stored in the UK server and downloaded to the device when you load the app so you won't be using out of date data.

inigo

@A2LUE42 Is yours the Tuya version? Is so are you using the Tuya app?

What I don't understand is if you can set up any schedule on the app, can you not set it for 20 min and use that as a boost with sink on? I must be missing something.

I only need 15-20 min boost of the top element for a shower and it usually happens on the night meter. I already turn it on manually and set the timer of the controller so that the boost turns off automatically. If I can't have full control of that with a smart switch, I don't think there would be any point in changing what I have.

coylemj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120198531#Comment_120198531

Yes, you can do that. My earlier reply may have been confusing but that's because I interpreted your use of the word 'Boost' to mean a manually initated and one-off (i.e. not timed) heating of the immersion. If you want to set it to heat for just 20 minutes (let's call it a 'top up') on a timed basis, you can do that no problem.

I already do exactly what you're talking about with my timer, the immersion needs 10 minutes top-up on 'Sink' for a shower because the gas boiler just doesn't get it hot enough.

inigo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120201071#Comment_120201071

Great, thanks again. I've already ordered one. I just need to convince an electrician to come and do the job! 😅

coylemj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120201436#Comment_120201436

You'll hardly ever need to physically access the timer so I'd ask the electrician to keep the Sink/Bath switch where it is now, assuming it was installed right inside the door of the hot press. In my photo above, the door to the hot press is on the left so the S/B switch is in it's original and very accessible location and you can see that the timer was installed further in. I'd recommend you follow that layout.

inigo

I have been unable to get an electrician to install the switches (no replies, no shows...) so I have decided to give it a go myself.

I have wired plugs and light switches before so I am fairly confident I can do the job, but I would like another pair of eyes to run through my plan and diagram if you don't mind and also opinions on a couple of things.

I already have a Horstmann Quartz 7 which I will leave in place after disconnecting it.

1. I plan to place the smart switch above the Horstmann and the manual dual switch below.
2. The Horstmann is protruding almost 6cm from the wall inside the hot press so I was thinking a surface box for the slim dual immersion switch, which looks like the one on @coylemj 's photo. Will ~45mm be OK? Any advice for place of knockouts?
3. The plan for the smart switch is a 47mm dry lining flush box as it is already chunky enough.
4. I will be using 3-core 2.5mm2 cable to connect both switches: Is there a min/max distance between them or length of cable recommended?
5. I will be using the existing element cables. I presume this is OK.
6. What are L1 and L2 at the back of the manual sink/bath switch, i.e. which one is which? (I have assumed L1=SINK in my diagram.)
7. If I understood correctly, I need to connect the L OUT with the COM at the back of the manual switch. Can I just cut a length of the brown wire from the 3-core 2.5mm2 cable for this and does it have to be a min/max length?
8. The 2 element neutrals go into the same N OUT terminal of the manual switch.
9. I will have 2 earths into the same terminal on the smart switch and 3 into the same terminal on the manual switch [SEE EDIT].

I would appreciate your replies.

IMG_20230311_180508664.jpg

IMG_20230309_131147924.jpg

EDIT: I think the elements' cables are 2-core as there is an earth cable running separately from the 2 white ones connected to the elements. Am I right in assuming both elements' earth wires run together in the yellow and green sleeve?

dextersnp

Hi guys,

I currently live in a house where the boiler/immersion doesn't have a timer, just a switch, and I would like to change it for something smart, I tried the switchbot but it doesn't have enough power to activate/deactivate the switch, so I'm thinking of buying a smart one switch, the setup is this:

https://imgur.com/a/E8GEd8j

I found some 13A smart switches but the current one is 20A and so is the circuit breaker but I didn't find anything 20A smart I found this one and 40A:

Smart Immersion Heater Timer Switch, 40A WIFI Smart Water Heater Timer Switch, Smart Wall Touch Boiler Switch with Alexa Google Home, Smart Life, Light Timer Switch, 8000W, (35mm deep box)

https://amzn.eu/d/1oCRTUW

Do you think just replacing it will work perfectly?

Thanks!

baztek84

I fit a WiFi switch from Amazon 4 months ago instead of our immersion switch. Sorry, boards won't let me post the link, but it's called:

CHOSRY Wi-Fi Fused Spur Timer Switch for Electric Towel Rails, Heating & Lighting

It's rated 13A/3kW, works grand. It uses the same Tuya app as the one you've posted above which is basic enough, but allows you to set schedules, and turn it on and off remotely. I've not tried it with Alexa or Google assistant.

You might struggle to fit the switch you've found into the back box you have there, see the comments on Amazon.

coylemj

I found some 13A smart switches but the current one is 20A and so is the circuit breaker but I didn't find anything 20A smart I found this one and 40A:

Can you see the specs. on the top of the immersion element? My bath element is rated at 2.8 kW which means it draws no more current than an electric kettle. If yours is the same, a 13A timer should do the job.

If your immersion element isn't rated higher than 3 kW, you'd be better off with a 13A fused timer as, in the event of a short, the 13A fuse in the timer will blow well before your 20A circuit breaker trips.