leaving before notice period is up

ep33

hi all,

My notice period stated in my contract with my current employer is 2 months. however I have just accepted another job where I'm required to start in one month. (the offer was exceptional and will be a dream job for me).
I want to leave on as good terms as possible however I'm not sure how my current employer will take this given we are very busy for the next couple of months and they will need me.
for clarification I'm not able to push back the start date of my new job. I just want to know legally what they can do?
I'm not in senior management position but also not very junior either. I would hope they wouldn't take me to court?
Any info anyone has in relation to this would be greatly appreciated!

Many thanks!

duffman13

ep33 wrote: »

hi all,

My notice period stated in my contract with my current employer is 2 months. however I have just accepted another job where I'm required to start in one month. (the offer was exceptional and will be a dream job for me).
I want to leave on as good terms as possible however I'm not sure how my current employer will take this given we are very busy for the next couple of months and they will need me.
for clarification I'm not able to push back the start date of my new job. I just want to know legally what they can do?
I'm not in senior management position but also not very junior either. I would hope they wouldn't take me to court?
Any info anyone has in relation to this would be greatly appreciated!

Many thanks!

Be very surprised if they try take you to court unless there is a non compete clause of some sort and yiur going to a direct competitor. Hand your notice in with your finish date in a months time and then take it from there

funnyname

Maybe your holiday and time in lieu might cover your 2nd month of notice especially with all the bank holidays around now.

ep33

thanks a lot. I think I might be overthinking it. going to offer to do all the hours they need me to up to date of leaving and see what they say.

thing is I don't have many annual leave days built up as I didn't carry any over from 2017 so do you think it's possible my last pay cheque could be reduced drastically?

funnyname

I think you're snookered really should have been up front to all parties re notice looks bad on you to new employers committing to starting when you still are employed at another company.

ep33

you're right that's very true. thing is the new place need me to start then and I was due a bonus in my current job which I just got and which meant I had to be employed and not give my notice beforehand. I know, I want my cake and eat it. I'm going to be as nice as can be about it and offer what I can. I've done a lot of extra projects for the company outside of my day to day so hopefully that will swing in my favour

Roberto_gas

ep33 wrote:

My notice period stated in my contract with my current employer is 2 months. however I have just accepted another job where I'm required to start in one month. (the offer was exceptional and will be a dream job for me). I want to leave on as good terms as possible however I'm not sure how my current employer will take this given we are very busy for the next couple of months and they will need me. for clarification I'm not able to push back the start date of my new job. I just want to know legally what they can do? I'm not in senior management position but also not very junior either. I would hope they wouldn't take me to court? Any info anyone has in relation to this would be greatly appreciated!

You should have told new employer while discussions that notice is two months...however if you can join early they generally dont mind. Standard practice while switching jobs.

Jim2007

ep33 wrote: »

you're right that's very true. thing is the new place need me to start then and I was due a bonus in my current job which I just got and which meant I had to be employed and not give my notice beforehand. I know, I want my cake and eat it. I'm going to be as nice as can be about it and offer what I can. I've done a lot of extra projects for the company outside of my day to day so hopefully that will swing in my favour

Well up to this point I'd have said apart from a bit of a grumble, your current employer would do nothing. But if it is a small company and the owners feel you deceived them on the bonus, they might react differently.

If they were vindictive they could bring a case against you, naming your future employer in the case. Of course it would not go anywhere and might not even be heard by the courts, but it would stuff you up, which of course would have been the objective.

You'll just have to take your chances and hope for the best.

ep33

Jim2007 wrote: »

Well up to this point I'd have said apart from a bit of a grumble, your current employer would do nothing. But if it is a small company and the owners feel you deceived them on the bonus, they might react differently.

If they were vindictive they could bring a case against you, naming your future employer in the case. Of course it would not go anywhere and might not even be heard by the courts, but it would stuff you up, which of course would have been the objective.

You'll just have to take your chances and hope for the best.

I don't think they will see it as deceiving them - the bonus related to performance in 2017 but not paid till March pay day and. they are not really a small company, have offices all round the world and just under 100 in the Dublin office. I don't think they would want to take a reputational risk by taking someone to court.
Thanks for your response, I will just have to take my chances.

ep33

Jim2007 wrote: »

Well up to this point I'd have said apart from a bit of a grumble, your current employer would do nothing. But if it is a small company and the owners feel you deceived them on the bonus, they might react differently.

If they were vindictive they could bring a case against you, naming your future employer in the case. Of course it would not go anywhere and might not even be heard by the courts, but it would stuff you up, which of course would have been the objective.

You'll just have to take your chances and hope for the best.

I don't think they will see it as deceiving them - the bonus related to performance in 2017 but not paid till March pay day. they are not really a small company, they have offices all round the world and just under 100 staff in the Dublin office. I can't imagine they would want to take a reputational risk by taking someone to court especially as I'm not a senior person in the organisation.
Thanks for your response, I will just have to take my chances and hope for the best.

OMM 0000

I would talk to your employer ASAP. Even if they're upset you're leaving early, especially during a busy period, deep down they will understand your situation. After all, they're employees like you and probably have to deal with this two month notice period too.

They won't take you to court.

Try to work out a deal with them. For example, you're available for an hour or two in the evening, or can come in on Saturdays, or would be willing to work X hours over a Y period of time. Maybe there was a task you were good at, e.g. writing documents, which you could do at home, so perhaps you could help see out your notice period by working very part-time, from home in your own hours, to do a bit of work for them.

I'm a manager and I would make a deal with one of my staff if he were in this situation.

I have to give a three month notice period. It sucks.

jimmycrackcorm

OMM 0000 wrote:

They won't take you to court.

I don't think I've ever come across a court case in Ireland where an employee was taken to court for leaving with shorter notice than contracted.

In fact it would be risky for an employer to do so as it could be shown that the longer period is being used unfairly to prevent employees from leaving especially in the case where they might result be replaced.

MinisterJD

ep33 wrote: »

hi all,

My notice period stated in my contract with my current employer is 2 months. however I have just accepted another job where I'm required to start in one month. (the offer was exceptional and will be a dream job for me).
I want to leave on as good terms as possible however I'm not sure how my current employer will take this given we are very busy for the next couple of months and they will need me.
for clarification I'm not able to push back the start date of my new job. I just want to know legally what they can do?
I'm not in senior management position but also not very junior either. I would hope they wouldn't take me to court?
Any info anyone has in relation to this would be greatly appreciated!

Many thanks!

"Not in senior mgmt" implies a fairly senior level-ie team mgmt- then 1 month's notice is a disgrace!

ep33

MinisterJD wrote: »

"Not in senior mgmt" implies a fairly senior level-ie team mgmt- then 1 month's notice is a disgrace!

just to clarify - I'm not in any form of management. I don't have any direct reports into me and I just report to one manager.

Thanks for all your messages, much appreciated

tech

HI EP

what sector do you work in? And what is the dream job you are going to?

ep33

tech wrote: »

HI EP

what sector do you work in? And what is the dream job you are going to?

Hi tech

without giving too much away, I work in a small Finance firm but going to another finance firm in a much higher position in a different area of finance to where I currently am.

ep33

so I gave in my notice and hr in my current role have agreed to work with me on the notice period. however they have come back and said I will need to work for another 2 weeks after my new role is due to start.
I want to leave on good terms with everyone where I am but at the same time I know the new place won't agree to pushing my start date out 2 weeks, 1 week max. what should I do?

Brian?

ep33 wrote: »

so I gave in my notice and hr in my current role have agreed to work with me on the notice period. however they have come back and said I will need to work for another 2 weeks after my new role is due to start.
I want to leave on good terms with everyone where I am but at the same time I know the new place won't agree to pushing my start date out 2 weeks, 1 week max. what should I do?

Apologise. You can’t work past X date. Leave.

You won’t be leaving on good terms, but that ship has sailed already.

ep33

Brian? wrote: »

Apologise. You can’t work past X date. Leave.

You won’t be leaving on good terms, but that ship has sailed already.

Thanks a lot. my main concern is really that they don't ring my new employer? which would throw a spanner in the works. I'm not looking for a reference from them.

towger

As a manager I have come across this often with employees wanting to leave before their notice period is over. I always try to be as decent as possible, but sometimes that is just not possible for critical roles. Also, we do have a clause that exam and other fees we have paid on the employees part in the past year are clawed back, and I have enforced that in several cases where the person is acting the maggot.
There have been situations where the new employer made an offer but then says it does not stand unless the person joins on a certain date ( within our notice period ). I have advice for them always, watch what you are getting into with this new employer, if they are already treating you this way before you even join, what will they be like to work for ? Will they treat you this way when you want to book holidays etc ? Be careful what you wish for.
Long story short, it is a ****ty thing for any employer to not respect a new employees notice period.

daheff

If worst comes to worst, agree to do the notice period & then just call in sick for days that you cant work.

o1s1n

ep33 wrote: »

Thanks a lot. my main concern is really that they don't ring my new employer? which would throw a spanner in the works. I'm not looking for a reference from them.

Employers don't give bad references in this country due to our defamation laws. I'd be very surprised if they did something like this.

In my previous role as a manager I constantly saw employees give two weeks notice and leave (our contracts all said 1 month)

There was nothing HR could do to them really. The only thing I ever saw in a meeting was them threatening the employee by delaying their P45 a bit. That was about the height of it.

If you've landed your dream job then you need to do everything you can to ensure you can start on time. Your old company will forget about this within days of you walking out the door.

ep33

Brian? wrote: »

Apologise. You can’t work past X date. Leave.

You won’t be leaving on good terms, but that ship has sailed already.

I know they won't be happy but from going on the comments on this thread and other pieces I've read about this in Ireland there isn't much my current employer can do.

ep33

towger wrote: »

As a manager I have come across this often with employees wanting to leave before their notice period is over. I always try to be as decent as possible, but sometimes that is just not possible for critical roles. Also, we do have a clause that exam and other fees we have paid on the employees part in the past year are clawed back, and I have enforced that in several cases where the person is acting the maggot.
There have been situations where the new employer made an offer but then says it does not stand unless the person joins on a certain date ( within our notice period ). I have advice for them always, watch what you are getting into with this new employer, if they are already treating you this way before you even join, what will they be like to work for ? Will they treat you this way when you want to book holidays etc ? Be careful what you wish for.
Long story short, it is a ****ty thing for any employer to not respect a new employees notice period.

Thanks a lot for your reply. noted regarding fees, this would not be that much at all really. I know what you are saying about the new employer and it is something to watch out for. generally they have a very good name in terms of treating employers, it's just they need someone to come in asap and I was under the impression that they would have offerred the job to someone else with a shorter notice period. just to let you know as well that my current notice period is very excessive for my level of job, the norm is one month in the vast majority of other roles in the market

ep33

daheff wrote: »

If worst comes to worst, agree to do the notice period & then just call in sick for days that you cant work.

Thanks, yes I've thought about this as the very last resort. don't want to do have to go there and will try abd do everything not to on

ep33

o1s1n wrote: »

Employers don't give bad references in this country due to our defamation laws. I'd be very surprised if they did something like this.

In my previous role as a manager I constantly saw employees give two weeks notice and leave (our contracts all said 1 month)

There was nothing HR could do to them really. The only thing I ever saw in a meeting was them threatening the employee by delaying their P45 a bit. That was about the height of it.

If you've landed your dream job then you need to do everything you can to ensure you can start on time. Your old company will forget about this within days of you walking out the door.

Thanks for this! there's a way around the p45 issue anyways, just give the old companies tax no. to revenue. thanks for the encouragement. I have landed my dream job and really don't want to start on the wrong foot. they said they can push it out 1 week so gonna try and meet everyone halfway, does that sound reasonable?

bucketybuck

ep33 wrote: »

so I gave in my notice and hr in my current role have agreed to work with me on the notice period. however they have come back and said I will need to work for another 2 weeks after my new role is due to start.
I want to leave on good terms with everyone where I am but at the same time I know the new place won't agree to pushing my start date out 2 weeks, 1 week max. what should I do?

You are over thinking all of this. At no point should you believe that placating your old employer takes any priority whatsoever over doing what is right for yourself. My belief is that once you accept a new job then that new job becomes by far your biggest priority, you need to go there and make a good impression and if that means placing a low priority on your current role in the interim then thats exactly what you do.

What does "notice" even mean? Its "notification of intention to leave", not "can I please leave with your permission".

Your old employer can say that you "need to work another two weeks" all they want but you don't have to do a damn thing they say. I know you want to do whats "right" and leave on good terms but good relations with your old company pales into insignificance compared to making a good impression with your new company, don't ever forget that.

Stop negotiating with your old place, tell them your leaving date and start looking forward, let them worry about their own problems.

bucketybuck

ep33 wrote: »

I've read about this in Ireland there isn't much my current employer can do.

In practical terms there is nothing they can do. You aren't a slave, you could walk out tomorrow if you wanted.

ep33 wrote: »

just to let you know as well that my current notice period is very excessive for my level of job, the norm is one month in the vast majority of other roles in the market

Which illustrates the point, they are happy to look after their own interests even to the detriment of the staffs needs, so don't feel bad at doing the same for yourself.

Seriously, do not ask favours from your new bosses just because you want to keep your old boss happy. Start your new job on the day you agreed and focus on making a good impression there, not on leaving a good impression behind you on people who no longer matter.

o1s1n

ep33 wrote: »

Thanks for this! there's a way around the p45 issue anyways, just give the old companies tax no. to revenue. thanks for the encouragement. I have landed my dream job and really don't want to start on the wrong foot. they said they can push it out 1 week so gonna try and meet everyone halfway, does that sound reasonable?

You need to focus on looking forward, your new job is going to be your job for the foreseeable future. And by the sounds of things you're going to be really happy there. Your current job isn't your job anymore. As already mentioned, don't negatively impact your new job and workplace to keep your old one happy.

People will remember you in your old workplace for the work you did during your time there. You not giving a full two months notice (which is ridiculous really) will be forgotten.

If you asked me about any employees from my old workplace I'd be commenting on their work ethic and how they were as a colleague, not how much notice they provided upon leaving.

So yeah, if it was me I'd be sticking to a month maximum.

funnyname

How did it go for you?