Ending a tenancy

Cocobeans101

Hi All,

I inherited a property with 3 tenants. The longest tenant has been there 4 years. I want to evict the tenants, do up the house myself and sell it early next year. They don't pay a lot of rent and it's barely covering expenses and taxes. I would prefer the property to sit there rather than have to deal with their list of issues each month...


I'm happy to give them their 122 days notice but I'm not evicting them strictly under any of the section 34 reasons. I don't have the name of a contractor doing the work (I'll be clearing it out and painting at weekends) and I won't be selling it within 3 months of the eviction. More like 6 months.

Can I evict them to change the house for personal use even if I don't intend to live in it?

It really doesn't pay to be a landlord, I'm not sure why anyone would get into it.

Thanks everyone.

Michael D Not Higgins

What are you planning to do? You don't need a contractor but you do need to specify what works you're planning to justify why you need the property vacant to conduct it. If your planned works are substantial (wooly and up for interpretation) then the notice can still be valid if you do the works yourself, however just clearing it out and painting it wouldn't qualify.

Cocobeans101

Just clearing it out and the garden. Paining the whole thing inside and out.

Michael D Not Higgins

Cocobeans101 wrote: »

Just clearing it out and the garden. Paining the whole thing inside and out.

No that wouldn't be allowed as it's not substantial.

You're also not planning to sell it straight away, nor use it for yourself or family member.

This is the reason the section 34 protections are in place. You can't just evict someone and keep a property vacant indefinitely because you don't like being a landlord. If you don't want to honour your obligations put it on the market as is and give notice legitimately.

Cocobeans101

But that's outrageous. It's not indefinitely... I only have weekends free so I will be tipping away at it.

It's my home and I shouldn't have to rent it out if I don't want to. We're not talking about a property lying vacant for years but for a few extra months.

I'm giving notice legitimately, I will give the full notice required. I just find your reply odd. I'm not sure what my obligation is? I'm a private citizen with a private home. I could understand it being underhand if I was throwing them out to get more rent but I'm not. After tax, expenses, my time and effort it's just not worth being a landlord.

mitresize5

Welcome to the trials and tribulations of being a small time landlord in 2018.

All the pain and none of the benefits and presented as capitalist neer do well by those on the left while actually filling a huge cap crated by government inaction... and treated like **** for the privilege

if its a decent size house knock a wall between the kitchen and dining/living room. This will cover you under the section 34 reasons and cost a few grand.

Expect your tenants to over hold though, as no doubt they will be advised by Threshold or some other quango ... so that might cost you another few grand... but your rich aren't you, you must be your a landlord!!

Cocobeans101

I'll just sell up a bit earlier and pay for the house to be cleared out. Is it crazy, I would have been happy enough to rent it out if there was any cash in it.


So after 6 months of tenancy, you can't just decide not to be a landlord any more?

Thanks for the heads up!

Wabbit Ears

To do it legally your best bet is to issue proper notice by the book and just sell it.

In this market the fact that its a bit of a fixerupper wont matter that much I'd say and if it proves a problem, just Get it cleaned/Painted and update the photos once the tenants have moved out.

the_syco

Cocobeans101 wrote: »

It's my home

Do you live in the house with them? Otherwise it's your house, not your home.

Cocobeans101 wrote: »

I'll be clearing it out and painting at weekends

The new owner will paint it. Just clear out the rooms, and maybe leave the white goods (washing machine, dishwasher, etc) if they work; depending on the price, a do-er upper with working white goods (and mattress and beframe if they're in good order, don't smell, not soiled, etc) may appeal to someone who can just about afford the place.

Thus, look into removing the tenants with a view to sell the place.

ross2010

I agree best to give correct notice, sign the declarations of intent to sell with your solicitor and get it on the market. When does their current lease expire? I was informed, and I stand open to correction, that the lease has to have expired before you can give the notice. Perhaps not relevant if lease wasn't renewed and they are on a month to month basis in which case I understand notice can be served giving correct notice period according to their tenure.

4ensic15

You can evict to move in yourself. You can do it up after the tenants vacate. Some of the tenants might be coming to the end of a part 4 and you can get them out without giving a reason. You should get professional advice. It will inevitably be cheaper than making a mess of it and having tenants overhold.

98-00

Surely they should have to move once the rental term is up?

Mrs OBumble

Cocobeans101 wrote: »

. I would prefer the property to sit there rather than have to deal with their list of issues each month...

It must be one hell of a slum for there to be a new list of issues that you deal with each month, especially in the current rental climate when tenants are loathe to bring up any issues because it's so difficult to find anything else.

Could you get the council to declare it uninhabitable? Of course that might have an impact on the resale value, unless you are planning to do substantial work on it.

TBH, I find your outrage over not being allowed to do whatever the heck you want with it a bit ... <<redacted>>. Do you think your employer should be allowed to fire you at whim (it's his business after all). You inherited the house, which means you got something for nothing. You're doing pretty well out of the deal.

4ensic15

98-00 wrote: »

Surely they should have to move once the rental term is up?

No. Once the rental term is up and the tenant stays on the become a month to month tenant on the same terms.

the_syco

OP; is the house in a Rent Pressure Zone?

98-00

4ensic15 wrote: »

No. Once the rental term is up and the tenant stays on the become a month to month tenant on the same terms.

That sounds a bit crazy too me. Is the tenant required to sign a new lease if the landlord produces one? I've never been a lessee myself so I don't know the ins and outs of it.

Sorry to distract from the original thread.

Sarn

98-00 wrote: »

That sounds a bit crazy too me. Is the tenant required to sign a new lease if the landlord produces one? I've never been a lessee myself so I don't know the ins and outs of it.

Sorry to distract from the original thread.

No. They can stay on a Part IV tenancy.

4ensic15

98-00 wrote: »

That sounds a bit crazy too me. Is the tenant required to sign a new lease if the landlord produces one? I've never been a lessee myself so I don't know the ins and outs of it.

Sorry to distract from the original thread.

Crazy or not, the law is as follows:
Residential Tenancies Act 2004.

28.—(1) Where a person has, under a tenancy, been in occupation of a dwelling for a continuous period of 6 months then, if the condition specified in subsection (3) is satisfied, the following protection applies for the benefit of that person.

(2) That protection is that, subject to Chapter 3, the tenancy mentioned in subsection (1) shall (if it would not or might not do so otherwise) continue in being—

(a) unless paragraph (b) applies, for the period of 4 years from—

(i) the commencement of the tenancy, or

(ii) the relevant date,

whichever is the later,

or

(b) if a notice of termination under section 34(b) is served in respect of the tenancy giving a period of notice that expires after the period of 4 years mentioned in paragraph (a) until the expiry of that period of notice.

rossmores

Not renewing part 4s is the easiest and least complicated way to terminate tenancies give a few days more than the statutory, use RTB template has to be done before existing part4 runs out  deliver by hand with a witness

Cocobeans101

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It must be one hell of a slum for there to be a new list of issues that you deal with each month, especially in the current rental climate when tenants are loathe to bring up any issues because it's so difficult to find anything else.

Could you get the council to declare it uninhabitable? Of course that might have an impact on the resale value, unless you are planning to do substantial work on it.

TBH, I find your outrage over not being allowed to do whatever the heck you want with it a bit ... <<redacted>>. Do you think your employer should be allowed to fire you at whim (it's his business after all). You inherited the house, which means you got something for nothing. You're doing pretty well out of the deal.

It's not a slum by any stretch of the imagination. I've one high maintainance tenant. I inherited it a couple of years ago from my elderly parents who never put up the rent. It's an absolute bargain. Nice house in an unbelievable location.

I am doing well out of the deal but I'm not running a charity. Landlord is a business.

I'll just issue notice, pay for the clean up and put it on the market in 3 months.

dudara

Cocobeans101 wrote: »

It's my home and I shouldn't have to rent it out if I don't want to. We're not talking about a property lying vacant for years but for a few extra months.

It's your property (not your home). But it's currently their home. And that's why the protections exist in law.

I can understand where you're coming from, but you need to understand that this house is home for your tenants and you have to respect their rights here.

spaceHopper

Ring the RTB for advice, I don't see anything wrong it what you are planning to do. You'll only have a problem if you go to re-rent it, it which case five them first refusal and you won't be in trouble.

If the RTB don't like your plan then do it by the book serve notice and sell it as is.

Also it is often false economy to do up a place before selling it. Anybody buying it will renovate it anyway. Any place I ever viewed that was freshly painted put me off. I always wondered what was behind the paint and went looking for faults, instead of seeing the potential.

The_Conductor

spaceHopper wrote: »

Ring the RTB for advice, I don't see anything wrong it what you are planning to do. You'll only have a problem if you go to re-rent it, it which case five them first refusal and you won't be in trouble.

If the RTB don't like your plan then do it by the book serve notice and sell it as is.

Also it is often false economy to do up a place before selling it. Anybody buying it will renovate it anyway. Any place I ever viewed that was freshly painted put me off. I always wondered what was behind the paint and went looking for faults, instead of seeing the potential.

The RTB *do not offer advice*.
They are a regulatory agency- period.
Agree though- doing the property up is very much a false economy- it may actually detract from the value of the property.

the_syco

spaceHopper wrote: »

Any place I ever viewed that was freshly painted put me off.

On this. When looking for a place to rent, fresh paint equals mould, so only looked at places that weren't freshly painted. The basement apartment of the building that I'm in now was freshly painted before the current tenants moved in. They got mould over the winter. So fresh paint isn't always a good thing.

4ensic15

A rental property will almost inevitably be shabby when the tenants vacate. A thorough cleaning and removal of clutter would help a sale. A basic paint job to freshen things would not go amiss. After that, spending any money upgrading would be a waste.

beauf

You didn't inherit a house you inherited a business.

That might help with how to think about this. As a business you now have obligations.

You should get advice from estate agents on what similar properties are getting in a similar condition or upgraded.