Starting a 'dumb phone' movement

quad_red

Hi folks,

We've got a six year old so thankfully phones are not an issue for us for a long while but demands around screen time are - which we are holding firm on.

But I can see friends with older kids having serious issues now. And one issue that comes up when I discuss this with friends is they don't want their kid 'left out', to be the only one without a smart phone.

What I was thinking was this - a group of parents come together and agree on a certain model of cheap dumb phone they will allow their kids to have in secondary school. This addresses all the contactability issues etc. But by kids having the same limited phone (like a Nokia 3310) the kids don't feel the peer pressure to comply with what 'everyone else has'.

Our kids go to a Educate Together primary which is open to these kinds of ideas (but not so much of an issue for a primary school) but the secondary I am guessing will be far less open to something like this. Which is why I would like to think about it now.

Any thoughts? Anyone aware of schools/parents groups around Ireland doing this?

Cheers,
Quad

farmchoice

ya but once one kid also gets a smart phone, because her cousin has one and then another girl gets one because the first one got one its all over, back to square one.

you can't keep back the tide, instead we all need to learn ho to swim ie, live with it as opposed to try and live in a world where its not a problem.

now a bit like yourself this is not an immediate problem for me my eldest is 8, but screen time is a big problem already and we have had a fair few rows about it.

things were slipping so we implemented a strict only on the weekends and only for x amount of time a day.
there was some amount crying and complaining from the 8 and 4 year old but a few months in it has been accepted and its grand now.

this is a huge media issue now but to me its just the ''hysteria de jour'' to a large degree.

at the end of the day while they have use of the phone you bought it, its your itunes or google play app they use so make sure you know whats going on.
if you dont think you understand what they are doing, learn, if a 13 year can do so can their parents.

have a bit of common sense and most of all dont hope someone else sorts it for you. there are far too many people who want the school to sort it or the government to change the law or the guards to go around arresting people for something.

if you are a parent of a teenager its safe to assume you are most likely over 25 so you should have the cop on and cognitive ability to mind your own kids.

lazygal

I would find this quite controlling of other parents. We are the ones who decide on what technologies our children have access to, not other parents.
If we want to buy our children something or allow them access to something, that's our call.

shesty

Well said farmchoice.

minikin

lazygal wrote: »

I would find this quite controlling of other parents. We are the ones who decide on what technologies our children have access to, not other parents.
If we want to buy our children something or allow them access to something, that's our call.

That’s fine so long as you’re home schooling your kids. Bare in mind that one child’s behaviour / performance in class can affect the whole group.

I spoke to my daughter’s teacher at the last parent teacher meeting, about her experience of the impact of these devices. She said attention span has fallen through the floor in recent years. She’s almost eight & got a kids tablet at christmas. If it were up to me she wouldn’t have any device at all. I believe we’re gambling with our kids education / well-being for the sake of a quiet life.

lazygal

minikin wrote: »

That’s fine so long as you’re home schooling your kids. Bare in mind that one child’s behaviour / performance in class can affect the whole group.

I spoke to my daughter’s teacher at the last parent teacher meeting, about her experience of the impact of these devices. She said attention span has fallen through the floor in recent years. She’s almost eight & got a kids tablet at christmas. If it were up to me she wouldn’t have any device at all. I believe we’re gambling with our kids education / well-being for the sake of a quiet life.

Parents are the primary educators. We get to decide when our children are ready for a device. A group of self-appointed technology guardians don't. If the device is such a problem for your child, take it from her. We don't have tablets in the house, kids ones or otherwise. That's our call. No one else's.

minikin

lazygal wrote: »

Parents are the primary educators. We get to decide when our children are ready for a device. A group of self-appointed technology guardians don't. If the device is such a problem for your child, take it from her. We don't have tablets in the house, kids ones or otherwise. That's our call. No one else's.

Yeah, I would if she lived with me...
“we” (both parents) don’t always get to make decisions about our kids.

You’re discounting the effect peer pressure has on kids... seems to me that conversation in school has started to revolve around games.

If you don’t have any tablets in your home why are you bothered about other people suggesting they’re not a great idea? Nobody’s suggesting a gestapo raid to confiscate them, just considering encouraging a healthier alternative. Brings to mind the parents who pushed burgers through the school gates during the Jamie Oliver experiment.

lazygal

minikin wrote: »

Yeah, I would if she lived with me...
“we” (both parents) don’t always get to make decisions about our kids.

You’re discounting the effect peer pressure has on kids... seems to me that conversation in school has started to revolve around games.

If you don’t have any tablets in your home why are you bothered about other people suggesting they’re not a great idea? Nobody’s suggesting a gestapo raid to confiscate them, just considering encouraging a healthier alternative. Brings to mind the parents who pushed burgers through the school gates during the Jamie Oliver experiment.

I'd be just as bothered about any other thing a band of parents got together about and wanted to introduce or ban in my children's school. I'm fully aware of peer pressure, what parent isn't? If I don't think something is good for my children, like a tablet, they don't have it. And they'll get over it, just like I've gotten over all the things I was told I couldn't have in school.

farmchoice

minikin wrote: »

Yeah, I would if she lived with me...
“we” (both parents) don’t always get to make decisions about our kids.

You’re discounting the effect peer pressure has on kids... seems to me that conversation in school has started to revolve around games.

this is the kind of thing that drives me daft,'' conversations in schools revolves around it'' well i'm 42 and 30 years ago we spent a lot of time discussing super mario and street fighter, and some how we survived.

yesterday the 8 year old asked me had i heard of a game called fortnite (i think) i said i had ( i think i saw some memes about it). he asked could he gt it , i said no, he said all his friends had it, i said which friends, he said joe, tom, adam, sean and eoin. well says i'' i'm not sure i believe that but as it happens i'm going to a meeting tonight and joe's dad and eoin's mam will be there''. ''ill tell them you told me the lads had the game and ask them is it ok''.
at this point he said he didn't really want it and best not to mention it to them at the meeting.
of course there was no meeting but because i was dealing with an eight year old i was able to out fox him. a small bit of parenting.

it seems there are people who would buy the game then get upset when they found out what it was, then call joe duffy, then suggest the school stop 8 year old's telling white lies, then suggest sony stop making games that are violent.

quad_red

lazygal wrote: »

Parents are the primary educators. We get to decide when our children are ready for a device. A group of self-appointed technology guardians don't. If the device is such a problem for your child, take it from her. We don't have tablets in the house, kids ones or otherwise. That's our call. No one else's.

lazygal wrote: »

I would find this quite controlling of other parents. We are the ones who decide on what technologies our children have access to, not other parents.
If we want to buy our children something or allow them access to something, that's our call.

I'm not suggesting telling anyone else what to do. And thanks for 'self appointed technology guardian' moniker :pac:

I don't think I'm alone having serious concerns. I don't see what the big issue is with seeing if other people felt the same way. I know a few people now having difficulties with this (they do limit time but the demands become incessant) and I can see the addictive qualities of this devices. There are multi billion dollar industries built on specifically tailoring the services/apps etc. to be as addictive as possible.

And never mind the kids reactions to being limited, the reaction of people to get right onto their high horses straight away at the mere suggestion of it.

I see parents groups on encouraging languages, diet and exercise. I don't feel 'controlled' by any of it. But I can see how having critical mass behind these commendable aims is of benefit.

ectoraige

minikin wrote: »

That’s fine so long as you’re home schooling your kids. Bare in mind that one child’s behaviour / performance in class can affect the whole group.

I spoke to my daughter’s teacher at the last parent teacher meeting, about her experience of the impact of these devices. She said attention span has fallen through the floor in recent years. She’s almost eight & got a kids tablet at christmas. If it were up to me she wouldn’t have any device at all. I believe we’re gambling with our kids education / well-being for the sake of a quiet life.

Our children all have tablets, because we chose to. We limit the amount of time they can use it on a given day, and limit their access to particular apps such as Youtube.

We use an app called Screen Time to do this, which also gives a log of their usage, and will also log things like websites visited and search terms used. You can also reward them with extra time for doing jobs around the house. It is one of the few services I pay for, I highly recommend it.

If the government want to do something about children's access to smart-phones, a more practical solution would be to negotiate a licence deal for Irish families. However, very few parents seem to be that concerned with regulating access. It's one thing having their own phone to play games, but when seven and eight-year-olds have their own whatsapp groups and snapchat accounts, you really have to wonder if their parents have a clue.

lazygal

quad_red wrote: »

I'm not suggesting telling anyone else what to do. And thanks for 'self appointed technology guardian' moniker :pac:

I don't think I'm alone having serious concerns. I don't see what the big issue is with seeing if other people felt the same way. I know a few people now having difficulties with this (they do limit time but the demands become incessant) and I can see the addictive qualities of this devices. There are multi billion dollar industries built on specifically tailoring the services/apps etc. to be as addictive as possible.

And never mind the kids reactions to being limited, the reaction of people to get right onto their high horses straight away at the mere suggestion of it.

I see parents groups on encouraging languages, diet and exercise. I don't feel 'controlled' by any of it. But I can see how having critical mass behind these commendable aims is of benefit.

Mine are in an ET school too. If there was a meeting and a group of parents said they wanted to start a movement such as the one you suggested, I'd nod and smile and internally roll my eyes.
There is peer pressure of a different kind when you start saying children should only have a certain type of device, one a group of parents deem acceptable. I see this with the healthy eating programmes in school, where my healthy home cooked baked goods in my children's lunches can be deemed verboten by children who think anything muffin shaped is unhealthy because of certain foods being outlawed.
As I said, there are no tablets in our house. We're big on free play and limited TV. Loads of books and outside fun. If and when we think introducing a device would be appropriate, that's our call. As are the types of phones we buy our children.
I was told no regularly as a child and teenager. I wasn't bought the 'cool' shoes or backpack for school. Peer pressure was relentless then too. I survived not getting what 'everyone else' had or did.

farmchoice

lazygal wrote: »

Mine are in an ET school too. If there was a meeting and a group of parents said they wanted to start a movement such as the one you suggested, I'd nod and smile and internally roll my eyes.
There is peer pressure of a different kind when you start saying children should only have a certain type of device, one a group of parents deem acceptable. I see this with the healthy eating programmes in school, where my healthy home cooked baked goods in my children's lunches can be deemed verboten by children who think anything muffin shaped is unhealthy because of certain foods being outlawed.
As I said, there are no tablets in our house. We're big on free play and limited TV. Loads of books and outside fun. If and when we think introducing a device would be appropriate, that's our call. As are the types of phones we buy our children.
I was told no regularly as a child and teenager. I wasn't bought the 'cool' shoes or backpack for school. Peer pressure was relentless then too. I survived not getting what 'everyone else' had or did.

when you think about it you are actually setting a good example for them, by not giving into the adult peer pressure from the
''wont somebody think of the children'' brigade.

GarIT

I don't see a problem with phones or any other devices. I spend 4 hours a day looking at a screen in work, 4 hours a day looking at a screen for college work, and probably another 4-8 looking at a screen for, recreation and socialising. I don't see any reason for stopping children from preparing for the world ahead of them. The world of going outside to play and physical toys is dying and I don't see them coming back, I don't see much point in trying to fight against the trend and cling onto them.

I'm all for protecting them, doing things like installing a housewide internet content filter but I wouldn't try to stop them participating in the modern world.

lazygal

farmchoice wrote: »

this is the kind of thing that drives me daft,'' conversations in schools revolves around it'' well i'm 42 and 30 years ago we spent a lot of time discussing super mario and street fighter, and some how we survived.

I can't count the hours we spent on fancy paper in primary school, sitting around swapping it, looking at it, arguing over it, smelling it. Children are always going to have their obsessions. I remember the football trading cards and stickers too.

lazygal

farmchoice wrote: »

when you think about it are actually setting a good example for them, by not giving into the adult peer pressure from the
''wont somebody think of the children'' brigade.

These types of groups are peer pressure of another kind, which I'm quite willing to ignore. Like the dad who can't understand why all the boys aren't down at the local GAA club every weekend because ball sports are the only way children will develop properly.

Big Bag of Chips

quad_red wrote: »

I'm not suggesting telling anyone else what to do.

This seems to contradict this:

quad_red wrote: »

What I was thinking was this - a group of parents come together and agree on a certain model of cheap dumb phone they will allow their kids to have in secondary school. ....by kids having the same limited phone (like a Nokia 3310) the kids don't feel the peer pressure to comply with what 'everyone else has'.

So you want a group of parents to decide on the brand of phone that every child in the school uses so that they don't feel peer pressure to have fancy smart phones? That sounds like you're suggesting telling other parents (and teenagers, some of who will be 17/18) what they should do.

You might get a small group of parents willing to try it. You will never get everyone. And if you don't get everyone then the whole idea doesn't work.

It has to come down to personal responsibility, and parents learning how to say "No". For as long as there's been school, children haven't been equal in school! It's a good idea, but you can only decide for your own child. And there will always be the child who has the latest everything. And there's nothing you can do about that except teach your child how to handle disappointment.

quad_red

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

This seems to contradict this:



So you want a group of parents to decide on the brand of phone that every child in the school uses so that they don't feel peer pressure to have fancy smart phones? That sounds like you're suggesting telling other parents (and teenagers, some of who will be 17/18) what they should do.

You might get a small group of parents willing to try it. You will never get everyone. And if you don't get everyone then the whole idea doesn't work.

It has to come down to personal responsibility, and parents learning how to say "No". For as long as there's been school, children haven't been equal in school! It's a good idea, but you can only decide for your own child. And there will always be the child who has the latest everything. And there's nothing you can do about that except teach your child how to handle disappointment.

With all due respect - a group of like minded parents coming together isn’t forcing anyone to do anything no matter how you twist it.

And i don’t care what model it is. I just said that Nokia cos I’ve seen it discussed on Engadget etc And I never envisioned haranging people who weren’t interested in this. And I’m well aware there’ll be kids with everything no matter what. But I disagree that having some people who agree interested in discussing this would be pointless.

I just thought it was something worth thinking about. But obviously it makes me a namby pamby ‘wont someone think of the children’ Luddite fascist 😄

I work in a technology driven environment. I am surrounded by technology and I believe it can make society better in a lot of ways. I also work with social media in my job. My kids are comfortable with technology and I eagerly embrace stuff like coder dojo.

I’m not a Luddite. I’m not talking about isolating kids from technology. They’ll use computers and tablets as appropriate.

But smart phones appear for teens appear to cause a cornocopia of issues from both direct experience of friends with their kids and teachers watching it. They’re not like fancy paper - they contain services and products that are deliberately designed to induce the kind of compulsive behavior that kids are most vulnerable to.

lazygal

No one is calling you any of those things. You're free to start a campaign, just as I'm free to decide its not something I'd be interested in.

GarIT

quad_red wrote: »

But smart phones appear for teens appear to cause a cornocopia of issues from both direct experience of friends with their kids and teachers watching it.

Almost every teenager will have a smart phone these days. They can cause a lot of problems but unfortunately because everyone else has them not having one causes more problems than having one.

My brother is in 2nd year at the moment and do you know what happens to the kids without snapchat? Once everyone leaves school for the day nobody will talk to them. Everything they do is arranged on snapchat, whether it's meeting up somewhere to cause trouble or going to the cinema, if you don't have snapchat you don't get invited.

Big Bag of Chips

Why would you need to gather a few like minded parents though? Make your own decision for your child and "like minded parents" might make similar. I have 2 children in 5th and 6th class. Neither have a phone. I think they are possibly the only ones in their class who don't. Although I think 1 other child in 5th doesn't.

What other people allow their children is of little interest to me. I'm not going to deprive them, but I'm not going to pander to them either. They will be given phones when I think they will need them. Maybe first year? Maybe later. And I will decide on the model phone they get. I don't need a 'movement'! I might discuss my approach with other like minded parents in general conversation, but I certainly wouldn't feel the need to get anyone together, nor would I feel the need to join a group who were actively promoting this.

I'll do my own thing with my own children, and I'd say they'll be fine.

lazygal

There seems to be assumption that most parents don't think about these things.

I know for me the parenting groups I've found on facebook have been amazing, in terms of support and providing a social outlet when I was the only one of my friends to that point who'd had a baby. I've no idea what I'd do without that network, all of which evolved via smartphone and computer.

We'll decide on the technology our children get, and when, and how much. Most parents are similar. They're responsible and want the best, and every family is different. My children already know other children don't get things they do, like a holiday abroad every year, and vice versa.

shesty

To be honest OP I can see where you are coming from with your idea, but I don't think it's a viable one.
Personally I don't think kids need phones and I won't be giving mine phones until I feel they are ready (and yes, I will know exactly what the apps on them do, because I think it's the biggest cop out ever for parents to proclaim ignorance of these things).I am not worried about what they have vs what other kids have, it's swings and roundabouts and kids are always watching one another.it's up to parents to do their jobs on that front though.

Chocolate fiend

What children can bring in their lunchboxes is within the remit of a school, what phone they have isn't.

Neyite

I get the intent behind it, but I don't think it would be workable OP.

Even if you got all parents to sign up to X model of non-smartphone, you'd still get parents caving and getting a swanky one, or a granny who overrides the parents at Christmas or birthday or one kid comes in with the old swanky phone of their auntie/ big brother who upgraded.

Humans have a way of expressing their individuality when conformity was forced upon them. I remember reading an autobiography of a woman who came of age around the time that the communist party took control of China. Even when they were forced into uniform clothes, haircuts, footwear the teens still went to great lengths to tweak aspects of their appearance or clothing to the point where they were slightly unique but would still pass under the radar of those in charge.

There has always been peer pressure. I'm not a bit bitter about never getting stonewashed jeans, perm and the latest Wham album in my early teens.

lazygal

I'm not bitter at all about never getting a Mr. Frosty or Kickers shoes.

jlm29

lazygal wrote: »

I'm not bitter at all about never getting a Mr. Frosty or Kickers shoes.

Gosh.... I never had a mr frosty either. I did notice that “everyone” else had one. It never occurred to me to mind!

Big Bag of Chips

I AM bitter about never getting Fashion Wheel.

jlm29

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

I AM bitter about never getting Fashion Wheel.

Holy god. I also remember now that everyone except me had a fashion wheel. I had an awful childhood

Neyite

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

I AM bitter about never getting Fashion Wheel.

I hear ya sister.

AttentionBebe

Would you be planning to only use a "dumb phone" yourself OP? I know if I were a teenager, and my parents were banging on about the evils of smartphones while using them themselves I'd find it very hypocritical! Lead by example etc

iguana

quad_red wrote: »

And never mind the kids reactions to being limited, the reaction of people to get right onto their high horses straight away at the mere suggestion of it.

But of course people 'get on their high horses' about it. Your suggestion is not only unworkable, it is at complete odds with many parents' well researched and thought out philosophies. It not only seeks to try and make other parents fall in with your own stance but implies that they are careless with their child(ren)'s well being if they don't. Of course that annoys people.

I think my approach to technology and parenting couldn't be further from yours. My son is 5 and I have very 'soft' limits on screen time. I don't limit his time with television/netflix at all and I've gone from a complete ban on youtube and gaming to allowing him more and more autonomy over the amount of access he has. The limits I do have are social, eg, we don't watch videos over the dinner table or when we are engaged in most types of social activity. I do however have strong limits on content because while there is no conclusive evidence whatsoever of screen time in itself being problematic there are very obviously a lot of programmes, channels, apps, games etc that range from unsuitable for his age to downright predatory.

But instead of attempting to protect him by limiting his access I am taking the path of trying to protect him by equipping him with knowledge. I show him how videos are made, how advertising works, how special effects work, etc. I ensure he isn't passively consuming content by watching what he watches and I talk to him about it. We recreate a lot of what he watches so he understands how it works. He's started making his own animated movies which I let him upload to youtube and we've started a small community of other kids who do similar so they can connect (all done through parents I know).

And it all works really well. He enjoys his 'screen time' greatly but he has no problem abandoning his screens for a better offer. He spends most of his days outside and plays with simple toys for hours. Some of his favourite youtube videos involve making toys from cardboard which inspires him to do the same and through which he has (quite surprisingly) started learning about and experimenting with hydraulics. Making his own videos is fantastically worthwhile on all sorts of academic levels as he uses stop motion animation which involves reasonably complex mathematics, especially when adding his own voice overs. (It's also a really practical introduction into visual representations of sound waves.) He's already learning to code and spends hours working on circuit boards as he plans to build his own computer after Christmas (Santa is being asked for the necessary computer components).

So I hope that maybe you can understand better why so many parents would object so strongly. I don't know who my son will be as a teenager and what kinds of things will interest the person he will be 8-10-14 years from now. But I'm assuming technology will feature prominently in his life and I don't plan on trying to hold him back from that. And I doubt I could because right now I'm mostly teaching him while also having to educate myself so I can help him follow his interests. At some point in the next few years he'll catch-up to me, then he'll pass me out and leave me for dust. At least in terms of technological know-how. But I'll also be the person who respected his interests, trusted him to follow them and tried my best to never protect him in a way that felt arbitrary to him. So when he comes up against the bad stuff, I hope that he knows I can be there right by his side to help him rather than someone who has made him feel like I don't get it. 'It' being both the desires and passions that drive him and the technological reality of 2032.

I've researched screen-time and technology from the point of view of a parent for years before I ever was one, as it was obviously going to be a big issue for parents and children. I still spend vast amounts of time at it. I give it more consideration than many other big decisions I've made because it's a massive, ever evolving part of my role as a parent. Even still some of it blindsided me as who knew a decade ago that children would have an insatiable appetite for watching other children unbox things or silly, badly produced short movies made with toys??? Now I know those are big things and I still don't understand them. But the fact is that none of us can predict the next trend and the older we get the more baffled by it we're likely to be. Which is something that makes me all the more determined to be my son's trusted guide to the internet and technology who prepares him each step of the way to adult autonomy rather than a gate keeper with dwindling effectiveness as he gets older.

ted1

quad_red wrote: »

Hi folks,

We've got a six year old so thankfully phones are not an issue for us for a long while but demands around screen time are - which we are holding firm on.

But I can see friends with older kids having serious issues now. And one issue that comes up when I discuss this with friends is they don't want their kid 'left out', to be the only one without a smart phone.

What I was thinking was this - a group of parents come together and agree on a certain model of cheap dumb phone they will allow their kids to have in secondary school. This addresses all the contactability issues etc. But by kids having the same limited phone (like a Nokia 3310) the kids don't feel the peer pressure to comply with what 'everyone else has'.

Our kids go to a Educate Together primary which is open to these kinds of ideas (but not so much of an issue for a primary school) but the secondary I am guessing will be far less open to something like this. Which is why I would like to think about it now.

Any thoughts? Anyone aware of schools/parents groups around Ireland doing this?

Cheers,
Quad

We discussed this at the parents association recent meeting.
I think we decided that it’s a daft idea akin to getting the teacher to use chalk and Blackboards.

Instead we have organised three cyberspace talks for the parents

ted1

lazygal wrote: »

minikin wrote: »

That’s fine so long as you’re home schooling your kids. Bare in mind that one child’s behaviour / performance in class can affect the whole group.

I spoke to my daughter’s teacher at the last parent teacher meeting, about her experience of the impact of these devices. She said attention span has fallen through the floor in recent years. She’s almost eight & got a kids tablet at christmas. If it were up to me she wouldn’t have any device at all. I believe we’re gambling with our kids education / well-being for the sake of a quiet life.

Parents are the primary educators. We get to decide when our children are ready for a device. A group of self-appointed technology guardians don't. If the device is such a problem for your child, take it from her. We don't have tablets in the house, kids ones or otherwise. That's our call. No one else's.

You do know that tablets can be great educational tools?

endacl

AttentionBebe wrote: »

Would you be planning to only use a "dumb phone" yourself OP? I know if I were a teenager, and my parents were banging on about the evils of smartphones while using them themselves I'd find it very hypocritical! Lead by example etc

I'd use the "dumb phones are free to kids in this house. Anybody who wants a smartphone buys it themself, and pays the bill or buys credit themself".

End of discussion.

GarIT

ted1 wrote: »

Instead we have organised three cyberspace talks for the parents

If you want to teach them good information and not something from a sci-if movie make sure the person giving the talk knows not to call it cyberspace.

screamer

Well having seen first hand what nasty teenagers can do and say in social media forums, and how it can wreck lives, combined with lack of enforcement around the area and the legal age of 18 which is ridiculous IMHO as there are no consequences for totally unacceptable behaviour, I have vowed I will never give my kids a smart phone. I don't care about control etc you have to protect your kids in this world and there are no protections on the internet.

jlm29

screamer wrote: »

Well having seen first hand what nasty teenagers can do and say in social media forums, and how it can wreck lives, combined with lack of enforcement around the area and the legal age of 18 which is ridiculous IMHO as there are no consequences for totally unacceptable behaviour, I have vowed I will never give my kids a smart phone. I don't care about control etc you have to protect your kids in this world and there are no protections on the internet.

I think thats a very naive approach, tbh. The best way to protect them would seem to be getting involved with social media yourself, keeping up to date with what they’re doing and talking to them about social media, who their friends are, etc. I think that brushing it all under the carpet and pretending it doesn’t exist is a disastrous approach. Kids are clever, they’ll use social media somehow, if they want to, and if they think there’s an outright ban on it, it means that if any bullying, etc is going on, they won’t tell you in case they get in trouble for being on it in the first place.

Dr_serious2

quad_red wrote: »

Our kids go to a Educate Together primary which is open to these kinds of ideas (but not so much of an issue for a primary school) but the secondary I am guessing will be far less open to something like this. Which is why I would like to think about it now.

How do you know when someone's children go to an educate together school? They tell you immediately 😂 This is a good idea though, in fairness. It would be great if all primary schools gave an advisory that smart phones were not encouraged before the age of 12.

lazygal

ted1 wrote: »

You do know that tablets can be great educational tools?

Yeah I do. So can books, free play and good parenting.

pwurple

Is anyone else reminded of that Douglas Adams bit?
[font=Merriweather, Georgia, serif]“I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.”[/font]

Listen, smartphones are here to stay, and while you are shielding them from it, I want to make sure my children know them inside and out. Literally. We have taken old ones apart, replaced buttons, screens. Looked at installing and uninstalling apps. Talked about permissions on them, turned on and off alerts. We have some very old tablets in the house, got them for half nothing on ebay. We use them for testing things, building crappy apps etc. Have a couple of spelling games and numbers games on them like OSMO

They don't take them out of the house. Also, because all the devices are ancient, they about about 40 mins of battery and the rule is Sunday morning before 11am only. While they can have an old tablet or phone (no SIMs), they don't get any chargers.  ;)

Paddy Cow

lazygal wrote: »

I can't count the hours we spent on fancy paper in primary school, sitting around swapping it, looking at it, arguing over it, smelling it. Children are always going to have their obsessions. I remember the football trading cards and stickers too.

Talk about a blast from the past :pac: Your description is perfect. I had loads of the stuff I also remember Italia 94 and everyone had a book and you bought those sticker packs. I knew all the footballers and results. I was really into it. It must've been the stickers or something because I have no interest whatsoever in football as an adult!

lazygal wrote: »

I'm not bitter at all about never getting a Mr. Frosty or Kickers shoes.

I was devastated when my Mum wouldn't buy me Clark's magic Princess shoes for my communion. Looking back she was dead right as I'd only wear them for a day but I really, really wanted them

www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgLz6glUfGc

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

I AM bitter about never getting Fashion Wheel.

I had to google Fashion Wheel and it turns out I did have it. Are you jealous

Big Bag of Chips

Paddy Cow wrote: »

I had to google Fashion Wheel and it turns out I did have it. Are you jealous

"Ignore" list.

beauf

quad_red wrote: »

....when I discuss this with friends is they don't want their kid 'left out', to be the only one without a smart phone.....

Its a simplistic view point.

Lots of clubs, activities, even school/home work clubs use online services, and mobile service to communicate with kids and parents.

If the phone and software and media giants allowed you to have control on the devices the could be managed properly. But the profits from mining all personal data are so vast, no one wants to cut that off. Govt don't want to tackle the companies doing it.

We use a smart phone for games, time limited, and router filtered. We use a dumb phone, or hobbled smart phone for communications.