how to make a forest pay

cycling is fun

Hello there I am looking for advice please, I own an almost 11 hectare area of forest it was planted in 1992

It is near my house and we were advised years ago due to the way the trees and grown or not grown as the case may be that clear felling might be the only/best option I am not sure that between getting roads built etc and all the other costs that there would be much money out of this considering that you would have to replant and if I am correct there is no premium for replanting so what is the point in that

I am relatively happy to leave it as it is as it attracts wildlife and is a nice area to take a walk around there is an area inside it where I could cut turf and make some money there but I wanted to know is there any other way of making money from the forest? its planted on bog so when I google about making money from a forest without cutting wood it mainly comes up with information on forest that would be on good quality ground a friend of mine years ago said that in there country that if you own a forest you are a rich individual, in Ireland this seems to be rarely the case in some cases its a noose around your neck especially when you consider insurance etc you have the costs of it but no income

can anyone advise please and thanks

timfromtang

Hi there,
sounds likely a few pound can be released alright.
A bit more information would help.
what species?
was it ever thinned? when?
you mention bog, what are the ground conditions like for machinery?
You mention a replanting cost, this can be eliminated if you can use natural regeneration to restock the site,dependent on ground conditions, species, felling management etc.
what species is key, some are relatively easy to add value on the farm, some are easy to sell to sawmills etc etc.

there could be an awful lot of timber standing, likely over 4000 cubic metres if spruce, at a pulp price of 30/ton and a felling.forwarding cost of 27/ton it'd not be worth much if you got the contractors in. however if it had been thinned and contained an appreciable amount of sawlog and pallet, 45-55/ton it'd be a better story.
Best of all would be a way to add value on the farm, fell it slowly over the next 15 years (allowing natural regeneration). Most of the money in forestry is in the labour. You mention the wildlife, this way would disturb the forest and its life the least.

tim

cycling is fun

timfromtang wrote: »

Hi there,
sounds likely a few pound can be released alright.
A bit more information would help.
what species?
was it ever thinned? when?
you mention bog, what are the ground conditions like for machinery?
You mention a replanting cost, this can be eliminated if you can use natural regeneration to restock the site,dependent on ground conditions, species, felling management etc.
what species is key, some are relatively easy to add value on the farm, some are easy to sell to sawmills etc etc.

there could be an awful lot of timber standing, likely over 4000 cubic metres if spruce, at a pulp price of 30/ton and a felling.forwarding cost of 27/ton it'd not be worth much if you got the contractors in. however if it had been thinned and contained an appreciable amount of sawlog and pallet, 45-55/ton it'd be a better story.
Best of all would be a way to add value on the farm, fell it slowly over the next 15 years (allowing natural regeneration). Most of the money in forestry is in the labour. You mention the wildlife, this way would disturb the forest and its life the least.

tim

Hello there thanks for getting back to me

Sitka Spruce & Lodgepole Pine
never thinned
ground conditions are good as there are drains in the area and the water around was drained into them
sorry can I ask what do you mean by add value on the farm?
when you say fell it slowly do you mean thinning it or just cutting it back slowly each year?

timfromtang

cycling is fun wrote: »

Hello there thanks for getting back to me

Sitka Spruce & Lodgepole Pine
never thinned
ground conditions are good as there are drains in the area and the water around was drained into them
sorry can I ask what do you mean by add value on the farm?
when you say fell it slowly do you mean thinning it or just cutting it back slowly each year?

Hi there,
With good ground conditions I'd suggest some work by yourself on improving the stand could provide an income.
Whilst likely only suitable for pulp wood, and only worth 30/tonne on the pulp market since it was not thinned, you still have time to dramatically increase the value of the standing crop by thinning.
The advice of a qualified forester might be useful on how to thin.
To add value to the thinnings, firewood is an option, one tonne of sitka will fill two .9x.9x.9m builders bags (tonne bags) after processing and drying you'd likely get 45 euro a bag, so 80 odd euro a tonne after felling, transporting, processing drying deducting fuel costs etc.
Some of the thinned trees will be straight enough and have sections of the right dimensions to become stakes, I'd enquire for prices of stakewood from the closest place you can find that makes stakes, I'd expect about 60 a ton for suitable material (you'd simply sort these out from the rest before processing into firewood.
If you are doing it yourself you can take your time and use simple equipment, chainsaw and tractor with winch for example, thinning the stand over a number of years, creating space for the "stems with a future" to grow into.

On our own hundred acre forest I tend to spend about 2 days per week on thinning and tending, the rest of my time I spend in the yard making charcoal, sawing with my chainsaw sawmill, or processing firewood.

If you've got the time and basic equipment there's money to be earned and labour required to get it, standing trees are worth very little, the money is in the labour of turning forest produce into saleable commodities.

hope this helps
tim
You are welcome to pm me I'll share my number if you'd like a chat about the possibilities.

cycling is fun

timfromtang wrote: »

Hi there,
With good ground conditions I'd suggest some work by yourself on improving the stand could provide an income.
Whilst likely only suitable for pulp wood, and only worth 30/tonne on the pulp market since it was not thinned, you still have time to dramatically increase the value of the standing crop by thinning.
The advice of a qualified forester might be useful on how to thin.
To add value to the thinnings, firewood is an option, one tonne of sitka will fill two .9x.9x.9m builders bags (tonne bags) after processing and drying you'd likely get 45 euro a bag, so 80 odd euro a tonne after felling, transporting, processing drying deducting fuel costs etc.
Some of the thinned trees will be straight enough and have sections of the right dimensions to become stakes, I'd enquire for prices of stakewood from the closest place you can find that makes stakes, I'd expect about 60 a ton for suitable material (you'd simply sort these out from the rest before processing into firewood.
If you are doing it yourself you can take your time and use simple equipment, chainsaw and tractor with winch for example, thinning the stand over a number of years, creating space for the "stems with a future" to grow into.

On our own hundred acre forest I tend to spend about 2 days per week on thinning and tending, the rest of my time I spend in the yard making charcoal, sawing with my chainsaw sawmill, or processing firewood.

If you've got the time and basic equipment there's money to be earned and labour required to get it, standing trees are worth very little, the money is in the labour of turning forest produce into saleable commodities.

hope this helps
tim
You are welcome to pm me I'll share my number if you'd like a chat about the possibilities.

Fair play you know what you are talking about, the firewood idea is a very good option it would also mean that I would not need to build forest roads at this stage to get big trucks in, as I would be removing the wood myself so no cost there for the roads anyways I do have basic equipment alright a 135 tractor, 2 chainsaws etc when you cut the trees for firewood do you cut them up fully at the start? or leave them in log form until they dry out? also how long is a felling license for are they difficult to obtain? when you make charcoal how do you market it I mean do you bag it where can you buy ton bags?

Doctors room ghost

If it was me I’d invest in a log splitter and a good saw and get a heap of turf bags and go filling.4or 5 euro a bag and fill a few biscuit tins with 50 euro notes.

timfromtang

.

cycling is fun wrote: »

Fair play you know what you are talking about, the firewood idea is a very good option it would also mean that I would not need to build forest roads at this stage to get big trucks in, as I would be removing the wood myself so no cost there for the roads anyways I do have basic equipment alright a 135 tractor, 2 chainsaws etc when you cut the trees for firewood do you cut them up fully at the start? or leave them in log form until they dry out? also how long is a felling license for are they difficult to obtain? when you make charcoal how do you market it I mean do you bag it where can you buy ton bags?

A felling license will take 4 months or so to obtain, and they now run for 10 years.
https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/forestry/treefelling/FellingApplicationGuidanceNotes020218.pdf
https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/forestry/treefelling/FellingApplication1ApplicationForm181217.pdf
I usually leave as much of the cutting up as possible until i get the timber to the yard, less handling.
Its often easier to cut and split the timber when wet, and it dries considerably faster in split blocks.
You can buy bulk bags from sacks.ie but they are often easy to obtain secondhand from neighbours and friends.
As for the charcoal, I am part of the irish artisan charcoal company, www.irishcharcoal.com. I curently use an exeter charcoal retort to produce the charcoal, and am working on the development (at first prototype stage) on my own (much cheaper to build) larger retort design.

tim

furandfeather

timfromtang wrote: »

.

A felling license will take 4 months or so to obtain, and they now run for 10 years.
https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/forestry/treefelling/FellingApplicationGuidanceNotes020218.pdf
https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/forestry/treefelling/FellingApplication1ApplicationForm181217.pdf
I usually leave as much of the cutting up as possible until i get the timber to the yard, less handling.
Its often easier to cut and split the timber when wet, and it dries considerably faster in split blocks.
You can buy bulk bags from sacks.ie but they are often easy to obtain secondhand from neighbours and friends.
As for the charcoal, I am part of the irish artisan charcoal company, www.irishcharcoal.com. I curently use an exeter charcoal retort to produce the charcoal, and am working on the development (at first prototype stage) on my own (much cheaper to build) larger retort design.

tim

Sorry for hijacking the thread but you seem to be well up with things Tim.
I've about 8 ac of forestry that's ready for thinning and I'm thinking of tackling into it myself. Would you know of any pro foresters in the Galway/Mayo area that I could get out and he show me what to thin?
Thanks

timfromtang

furandfeather wrote: »

Sorry for hijacking the thread but you seem to be well up with things Tim.
I've about 8 ac of forestry that's ready for thinning and I'm thinking of tackling into it myself. Would you know of any pro foresters in the Galway/Mayo area that I could get out and he show me what to thin?
Thanks

although I could not recommend a forester (I do not know any in your area) I can definitely recommend that you ask your local Teagasc Forestry adviser to visit.

Noel Kennedy

Forestry Advisor
Contact Details

Teagasc, Abbey Street Roscommon. F42 XC63
Email

• noel.kennedy@teagasc.ie

Telephone+353 (0)906626166 / +353 (0)879090504

He'll be able to help you get the right idea.
There are some good videos on you tube about how to mark trees for thinning.
look for "the two stick method" a video by Dr Ian Short of Teagasc.


Basically you are trying to give growing space for the best trees in your plot, you'll be removing roughly 1/3 of the stems. Mark your "stems with a future" or "final crop trees" (300 -400/Ha), remove at least two strong competitor stems from beside each of these, remove all diseased trees, and remove a choice of others with the worst form to make up the remainder.


PPE is a good idea when working in the forest, as is NOT working ALONE.
Besides your chainsaw you'll want some lifting tongs, a felling lever, a small to medium sized axe, some plastic wedges, and a file for sharpening.


feel free to pm me if you wish a chat


tim