Toxic father-in-law

elvis83

Hey

Really struggling with father-in-law at the minute. He's a toxic human, a bully, egotistical, narcissistic, manipulative...the list goes on.

I bit my tongue alot in the early part of my wife and my relationship, but I fear that has made matters worse to be honest. Any advice on how to handle someone like that? My usual approach would be to give them a wide berth, but a bit difficult with a family member

As you can tell from the time, this is causing insomnia for me so any advice would be appreciated...

December2012

How does your spouse feel about him? What kind of things are affecting you?

If he does any favours for you, like childminding, stop those.

LegacyUser

How close by does he live to you?
There are a lot of ways of simply minimising contact. Just be out& about in eves& weekends. Over time he'll see you have really busy lives& can't engage

Ghekko

How much contact do you have with him? Does your wife know how you feel and if so does she agree with your feelings on him? It would make it a lot easier to ignore him if she does. I think you need to step back and distance yourself from him if he's causing you sleepless nights. Let your wife visit him if she wishes, but you are not obliged to go near him. If she also has issues with him then let you both distance your family unit from him.

Bradley in Texas

Agree with Ghekko above. Has your wife spoken up to defend you? Personally, I'd tell her she's more than free to go visit them as often as she likes but you won't be going. That said, I wouldn't take any abuse off of him in your own home. If he's at your place and starts in, I'd invite him to leave.

elvis83

December2012 wrote: »

How does your spouse feel about him? What kind of things are affecting you?

If he does any favours for you, like childminding, stop those.

My spouse generally tolerates him. She has never really stood up to him. From listening to stories of her growing up, it's a relationship that's entirely built on fear.

You hit the nail on the head with favours. He's used this tactic for years as a way of manipulating his family members. Basically using money as a means of subtle control. I think it annoys him that his children largely don't need that support anymore.

He been very helpful in alot of ways... Helping with odd DIY jobs around our house in particular (as I'm not handy at all!). But I think he then uses that to almost emasculate me. Not directly. But subtly. It's hard to describe really. He's done the exact same to his own son, who can barely stay in the same room as him.

Subtle pointed comments, that could be dismissed if challenged. Small niggly things. I know it sounds ridiculous but it is exhausting and frustrating to deal with.

zoobizoo

elvis83 wrote: »

He been very helpful in alot of ways... Helping with odd DIY jobs around our house in particular (as I'm not handy at all!). But I think he then uses that to almost emasculate me. .

I get that from my FIL. he thinks he's right when it comes to DIY and gets thick when I do a job in a different way.

I just ignore the comments.

It's all about control.

elvis83

Ggbvcc wrote: »

How close by does he live to you?
There are a lot of ways of simply minimising contact. Just be out& about in eves& weekends. Over time he'll see you have really busy lives& can't engage

Thanks for the advice. They live quite close, but thankfully he doesn't be around too often. But all it takes is one visit with a few niggly digs and I'm worked up for the next few days! It's so stupid, even as I'm writing it here, my rational mind is screaming at me that it's so stupid to get worked up over this kind of crap

elvis83

Bradley in Texas wrote: »

Agree with Ghekko above. Has your wife spoken up to defend you? Personally, I'd tell her she's more than free to go visit them as often as she likes but you won't be going. That said, I wouldn't take any abuse off of him in your own home. If he's at your place and starts in, I'd invite him to leave.

Great advice. It's difficult though. It's passive aggressive behaviour that hes a master of. It's easy to ask someone to leave if they are being aggressive or violent, but usually it's stuff that he could dismiss if confronted about. You would feel like you're overreacting. You would come out as the bad guy.

zapper55

I think you've two choices re the diy in particular, leave the room when he does it or pay someone else to do it. Honestly if his passive aggressiveness bothers you that much I'd go down the handy man route. Life is too short to feel uncomfortable in your own home. He's caused this.

Rubberchikken

I always rate people who behave like this as insecure inside so big themselves up by downing others. Not worth bothering with.
Dont give him opportunities to 'help'. Showing him you can both manage just fine might make him see that he cant get to you.

December2012

elvis83 wrote: »

. I think it annoys him that his children largely don't need that support anymore.

That is exactly what it is. He sounds like the type who is used to being top dog, and doesn't like the fact that he's not any more, so hell get his digs in, but he's clever enough to do it in a way of 'banter' or that can immediately be diffused because 'its just the way he is'.

Stop getting him to do the favours at all. limit your time with him, and if you can't, then realise that you are a better person by not being like him. Think of him as the sad pathetic little man that he shows himself to be.

But don't make things hard for your wife!

elvis83

Bit of an update. We're about to get our en suite done (just moved into house 1 year ago, very much a work in progress). I want to get quotes from several handymen (including the FIL). My wife wants to get her dad to do the work, just to avoid hassle. This is the kind of sh*t his family habitually do to avoid damaging his incredibly fragile ego. Seriously fed up of the fact that this kind of stuff causes friction for us.

Anyway just giving a quick update, I'm sticking by my guns on this one, I'm pricing about 3 people and whoever is cheapest gets the job. Not walking on egg shells anymore.

Big Bag of Chips

You need to get your wife onside. You don't have the history with him that she does. You admit that the relationship she has with him is more of fear than respect. So you need to support her in standing up to him. I 100% agree with your stand on the en suite, and I 100% agree that you should get somebody else to do it. But just be careful of becoming the bully that her father is.

This is something you need to discuss and come to an agreement on. It's something that you need to talk through with her and come up with a reason (if asked) why he's not doing it. Does he even have to know it's being done? Frustrating as it is for you, your wife has had a lifetime of 'keeping the peace' with him and that's a habit not easily broken. Listen to her, work with her. Not just demand that you're "sick of this ****" and go ahead and do what you like. That is putting her in the middle of two angry men, and that's not a nice place to be.

elvis83

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

You need to get your wife onside. You don't have the history with him that she does. You admit that the relationship she has with him is more of fear than respect. So you need to support her in standing up to him. I 100% agree with your stand on the en suite, and I 100% agree that you should get somebody else to do it. But just be careful of becoming the bully that her father is.

This is something you need to discuss and come to an agreement on. It's something that you need to talk through with her and come up with a reason (if asked) why he's not doing it. Does he even have to know it's being done? Frustrating as it is for you, your wife has had a lifetime of 'keeping the peace' with him and that's a habit not easily broken. Listen to her, work with her. Not just demand that you're "sick of this ****" and go ahead and do what you like. That is putting her in the middle of two angry men, and that's not a nice place to be.

Wow, thanks so much for this feedback, the last thing I'd ever want to do is become anything like him. I'll talk it out with her... Thanks again!

Neyite

If it were me, I would just not give him the information about what work you are getting done in your home. Getting family (and especially a difficult personality) to do the work is messy because if they do a poor job, you can't address it. Or they'll do it the way THEY want it done, not your way.

They don't need to know the detail of your lives. They don't need to know you are thinking of doing up the ensuite. Or that you did it. It could be years before they ever realise you've a new bathroom done and by that stage you can be vague and say it was done while he was away or up the walls with paid work or whatever.

So just don't mention it at all. If you get "Oh, why didn't you ask me to do it?" you can just innocently say that you saw they were really busy at the time and they have done sooo much for you already that you feel you couldn't possibly ask them for more help etc...

Getting favours off them and feeling indebted to them is the hook that makes you feel crap. If you and your wife can rid yourselves of that and be fully independent of them, then you rid yourselves of a lot of connected stress - then you only have to deal with them at family gatherings and hopefully lots of people around can dilute the time you spend with the person one-on-one.

December2012

Why would you get a quote from him at all? You KNOW what will happen. If he does the job, he will lord it over you. If he doesn't do the job, he will criticise the job and lord it over you that you were a fool not to get him to do it.

Generally, you should keep family and business separate.

Ghekko

Get the quotes from other people. If they are reasonable just go with one of them. I wouldn't ask him at all. If your wife is questioned all she has to say is that you were looking after the project. If you're questioned just say you got a great quote and went with it. Don't discuss it further, don't get into the cost of it - none of his business.

I appreciate you don't want to lay down the law with your wife but looking at it from the other side, her loyalties need to lie with you and she shouldn't ignore or encourage her father's behaviour for the sake of keeping the peace. She is keeping the peace where her father is concerned yet she is complicit in making you feel like crap where he's concerned. You need to try to make her understand that his behaviour over the years has made you feel belittled and this needs to stop. This project can be the start of you finally standing up and making your own decisions without your fil's toxic input. The less you tell him the less control he'll have over you both.

AndrewJRenko

Tell him that your relationship with him is just too special to risk jeopardising it over a petty little bathroom.

Really, how do you think you can manage him as a supplier, checking the quality of his work, and dealing with problems on the job? You'd be crazy to take him on as a paid supplier.

jimd2

I agree with the answers above and think that you should restrict contact and involvement from him going forward.

On top of that when you do meet I would automatically question every comment like that he makes to you. Let him see that none of these comments will go unchallenged. Basically ask him to explain any sarcastic comment that he makes.

Like "what do you mean by that?", "are you serious, why would that be?", "no one besides you said that to me before. What is the issue?",

Dont let him divert if you get an example that is good to latch on to. Keep at him for an answer.

Take the front foot, it's almost like an act. Discount the worry about annoying him in the process. You have gone way beyond that stage if this is keeping you awake at night.

jimd2

Further to this if he makes a smart personal remark to you just hesitate for 10 or 15 seconds and leave a little silence. then ask him "are you a bit obsessed with me?" or "do you really want to be me?". if he says no just say that you have noticed him becoming ever more obsessive with you.

Then say "no problem, just wondering"