Americans' obsession with vets

the_pen_turner

shy have they such an obsesion with veterans and people that served in the militery.
i have no problem thanking them . but they go nuts about it. its like being a vet makes them gods.

why is that

Joeseph Balls

the_pen_turner wrote: »

shy have they such an obsesion with veterans and people that served in the militery.
i have no problem thanking them . but they go nuts about it. its like being a vet makes them gods.

why is that

Freedom baby

Jim Bob Scratcher

They sure know how to look after their pets

Duckworth_Luas

Something to do with a guilt complex over how they treated Vietnam vets I believe.

However, it's nothing compared to their obsession with dogs. It's fcuking crazy!

Your Face

Obsession for Vets

By Calvin Klein

the_pen_turner

Joeseph Balls wrote: »

Freedom baby

its not about freedom.
we fought for our freeedom as did scotland and loads of other countries. i would be hard pressed to tell you anyone that fought for our freedom outside of the top 10 that signed the proclimtion or were big players at the time

eeguy

It's a military culture based on guns, flags and showing the world who's boss.

Even though they haven't won a serious war by themselves since fighting the Spanish back in the 1890's.
Arrived late in 1917 for WW1,
Arrived late in 1942 for WW2
Korean War in the 50s was a stalemate
Lost the Vietnam War.
No one really "won" the Cold War with Russia.
Gulf War 1 wasn't the best.
Gulf War 2 was even worse.
The War on Terror is still going by all accounts. It's actually one of the longest wars in modern history. 16 years and counting.

c.p.w.g.w

have you not seen the propaganda movie "American Sniper"...American hero shooting people from 100's of yards away, weather innocent of not...Hailed as hero because of the large numbers of people his claimed to have killed for the Star Spangled Banner

Them murican's are easily manipulated, sure look who their president is...

Currently it's mainly poor people who are typically poorly educated in the army.

That's why the recruit in poorer neighborhoods, lie to them to get them to sign long contracts. If they ever come back, then maybe they'll follow through on their promise of college, but then they have PTSD and go off the rails. Then the army stop covering medical bills and they end up on the street or in jails...Truely America the Great, Brave, delusion

Noveight

If you don't throw in your buck-o-five, who will?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzW2ybYFboQ

Your Face

eeguy wrote: »

It's a military culture based on guns, flags and showing the world who's boss.

Even though they haven't won a serious war by themselves since fighting the Spanish back in the 1890's.
Arrived late in 1917 for WW1,
Arrived late in 1942 for WW2
Korean War in the 50s was a stalemate
Lost the Vietnam War.
No one really "won" the Cold War with Russia.
Gulf War 1 wasn't the best.
Gulf War 2 was even worse.
The War on Terror is still going by all accounts. It's actually one of the longest wars in modern history. 16 years and counting.

Nice try Putin

Are Am Eye

the_pen_turner wrote: »

shy have they such an obsesion with veterans and people that served in the militery.
i have no problem thanking them . but they go nuts about it. its like being a vet makes them gods.

why is that

Your Post Colonialism values being nice or being in the right(even if a victim)
They value strenght, conquest, killing native americans and vietnamese

eeguy

Your Face wrote: »

Nice try Putin

"You have won an all expenses trip to Salisbury!! Meals included!!

Manic Moran

It does get a bit embarrassing, all right. I suspect there is something of the ever-increasing division between the military and the rest of the population. Pretty much most families have relatives who served in WW2 or Korea, but that connection is dropping. Currently about 10% of the population are veterans, and it continues to drop. Indeed, less than 30% of the population are even eligible for military service. So, they have family stories of how grand-dad froze fighting Koreans at Chosin, or was a part of the Bataan Death March, but few of them have raised their hand to follow on in their footsteps. The last few generations of servicemen have been heavily skewed towards family tradition. Dad was in, I go in, my son will probably go in sort of thing, so it reinforces the military/civilian segregation over time. This combined with the realization that the treatment of veterans from Vietnam was something of a national embarrassment.

The other part of it is that retired portion of the 10% who did go, and are happy to see folks who followed them through hell, as it were. They are very vocal about it. It is quite embarassing to receive effusive appreciation from an old-timer wearing a Korea or Vietnam veteran hat, they went through far more than I did, but they are absolutely honest and heartfelt about it.

Your Face

eeguy wrote: »

"You have won an all expenses trip to Salisbury!! Meals included!!

Ha, that's rough.

Joeseph Balls

the_pen_turner wrote: »

its not about freedom.
we fought for our freeedom as did scotland and loads of other countries. i would be hard pressed to tell you anyone that fought for our freedom outside of the top 10 that signed the proclimtion or were big players at the time

You've lost me there.
I can name quite a few people who fought for Irish freedom but don't see how that's relevant.

Aren't the Americans always told how their military is fighting for their freedom. They keep america safe from the baddies. My post was in jest

ballsymchugh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPquarz16wQ

the_pen_turner

Joeseph Balls wrote: »

You've lost me there.
I can name quite a few people who fought for Irish freedom but don't see how that's relevant.

Aren't the Americans always told how their military is fighting for their freedom. They keep america safe from the baddies. My post was in jest

those people that fought for our freedom were my great parents generation and my parents grandparents or my grandparents partents. iv never once heard any ov those going around talking about those people . if that was in america everyone would know that my grandarent was a veteran and fought for their country.

its more than just freedom its more cultural to praise the veterans for some reason

Hitman3000

the_pen_turner wrote:

shy have they such an obsesion with veterans and people that served in the militery. i have no problem thanking them . but they go nuts about it. its like being a vet makes them gods.

Don't get it myself, they seem happy to celebrate killers once they wear a US uniform. Collateral damage was coined so they wouldn't have to deal with the term murdering civilians.

Manic Moran

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Currently it's mainly poor people who are typically poorly educated in the army.

Utterly incorrect.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/11/military-education-infographic_n_1873842.html
Part of the reason that 70% of the US population are not eligible to join the military is that too many people do not have the required education standards. It does not say well for the US education system, but that isn’t the military’s fault.

That's why the recruit in poorer neighborhoods, lie to them to get them to sign long contracts. If they ever come back, then maybe they'll follow through on their promise of college, but then they have PTSD and go off the rails.

I’m not sure where to start on this one, but I suspect you have gone with common myth and not the demographic reports which are publicly available. The military tends to recruit mainly from the middle class. Combat arms soldiers who generally join for adventure or tradition and not money also tend to come from better income families. We are getting much better at the post-return care.

Cheerful Spring

the_pen_turner wrote: »

shy have they such an obsesion with veterans and people that served in the militery.
i have no problem thanking them . but they go nuts about it. its like being a vet makes them gods.

why is that

Reaction to 9/11 has had something to do with.

c.p.w.g.w

Manic Moran wrote: »

Utterly incorrect.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/11/military-education-infographic_n_1873842.html
Part of the reason that 70% of the US population are not eligible to join the military is that too many people do not have the required education standards. It does not say well for the US education system, but that isn’t the military’s fault.

Back in 2005 the Military were allowing recruiters to overlook those requirements, so if numbers get light on the ground they'll just ignore the rules again. They could recruit high school dropout and then give them a helping hand to get GED(i think that's what its called).

Can you honestly tell me, that this is done above board with no cheating. The recruiter needs to hit his/her targets and the US Military needs for cannon(IAD) fodder for its spreading of freedom to the middle east...but sure Saudi Arabia has money so lets not act on their atrocities...Hypocrites

Maybe i don't watch enough fox news, so maybe i'm not getting the clenched fist of truth, from my news sources

Donald Trump

Why was there so many sick animals in Vietnam???

Manic Moran

Back in 2005 the Military were allowing recruiters to overlook those requirements, so if numbers get light on the ground they'll just ignore the rules again. They could recruit high school dropout and then give them a helping hand to get GED(i think that's what its called).

Mainly 2008-2010. Approximately 3,000 troops were enlisted under the two and a half year program. Given the Army needs about 60,000 a year, it's not a huge percentage. https://www.militaryhub.com/article?id=243 A maximum of 10% of the Army may have a GED (It's not considered as good as a high school diploma).
A related program still continues for National Guard units. Note that before being sent to Basic Training, the GED must be completed, it's part of the "GED Plus Enlistment" contract.

As of three years ago, about 1,200 soldiers in the Active Army had no GED. 75,000 had a Bachelor's, and 40,000 had a Masters' or Doctorate. (Out of just under a half-million, so, about 22%? If I find the relative Irish Army numbers, I'll come back and edit this. I can't seem to find it, but I'll wager the US compares favorably enough) The relative number should be telling. See demographics report: http://download.militaryonesource.mil/12038/MOS/Reports/2015-Demographics-Report.pdf

In any case, the bottom line is that the Army requires educated soldiers. If they are educated before they sign the dotted line, or afterwards, they are still better educated than the general population. So, yes, standards were loosened for a while to get people in the door, but not in the field.

Another link worth looking at, granted, this is 2003 data, but I've not seen anything more recent which is as complete, is this one.
https://www.heritage.org/defense/report/who-bears-the-burden-demographic-characteristics-us-military-recruits-and-after-911

In summary, we found that, on average, 1999 recruits were more highly educated than the equiv­alent general population, more rural and less urban in origin, and of similar income status. We did not find evidence of minority racial exploitation (by race or by race-weighted ZIP code areas). We did find evidence of a Southern military tradition in that some states, notably in the South and West, provide a much higher proportion of enlisted troops by population.

The household income of recruits generally matches the income distribution of the American population. There are slightly higher proportions of recruits from the middle class and slightly lower proportions from low-income brackets. However, the proportion of high-income recruits rose to a disproportionately high level after the war on ter­rorism began, as did the proportion of highly edu­cated enlistees.

There may be an updated version, referenced in this one from 2008, but the source link is broken. http://freakonomics.com/2008/09/22/who-serves-in-the-military-today/ A more recent version of the racial casualty stats, if you are wondering about 'cannon fodder', mentioned on that site can be found here. https://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32492.pdf

somesoldiers

Thank you for your service,sorry about the PTSD

davo10

America is a young country, born out of conflict. First with the English, then with themselves. They see the military as the providers, and protectors of their freedom and way of life. By extension, there is great pride that the also protection the freedom of other, weaker nations. I think it was Churchill who described the US as "the worlds policeman". Add in to the the astonishing number of US casualties on foreign soil over the past 100 years, most young, most conscripts, most fighting due to a sense of duty, and you can see why they love their vets. They are their sons and daughters.

Vladimir Poontang

The irony is the raving flagsuckers treat their vets like absolute dirt.

Bob Harris

There are 10's of thousands of homeless vets. 10's of thousands more in prison.
Abandoned, forgotten and ignored.
The yanks like whoopin' and hollerin' when they see a person in military uniform recently back from service. Pat them on the back and thank them for their service but vets from a few decades ago? They are treated like dirt for the most part.

Subcomandante Marcos

the_pen_turner wrote: »

shy have they such an obsesion with veterans and people that served in the militery.
i have no problem thanking them . but they go nuts about it. its like being a vet makes them gods.

why is that

The counter intuitive thug about it all is that the government and the military establishment pretend to care about vets, politicians fawn over "hero's" endlessly and the military "protecting" America are brought up at every public event, but as a nation they treat their ex military like absolute ****e. Homelessness, drug use, suicide, severe mental health issues and untreated physical illness are all massively disproportionate among former active military members and still they get no support from the national or state governments despite all the lip service.

Which is crazy when you consider the heat Nazi like obsession with the military in almost every aspect of American everyday life.

Peregrinus

Well, I dunno. The proposed budgetary allocation for the Dept of Veterans Affairs for 2010 is $200 billion. Of course there are all kinds of questions about how effectively that money is spent, and allegations of mismanagement, waste and even fraud and those questions are all legitimate. But, still, that's quite a lot of money. It's very much more than they give to the Dept of Education, or the Dept of Transportation, or the Dept of Justice, or the State Department. I don't think we can say that the Americans just pay lip service to their veterans.

What they are very slow to do, however, is to question the value of the service which has been rendered by veterans. To do so is seen both as unpatriotic and as offence to veterans and serving personnel. And this can engender a climate which discourages serious public discourse about the legitimacy, effectiveness and/or morality of the US's various military adventures. I'm not really sure that we truly honour somebody's service by refusing even to countenance the possibility that sending him out on that particular service might have been a disastrous mistake in the first place.

Ave Sodalis

It's scarily effective propaganda. War is a profitable business for the US, but in many countries, you'd never get the people behind the idea of being involved in regular conflict. Instead, spread lies about how their freedom is in danger, about how fighting for your country is the only reason America hasn't been invaded, and about how soldiers deserve to be given higher status than another citizen. Soon you'll have people who not only are happy to be in constant conflict for the sake of "freedom", but worship their military and soldiers. Vets get a lot more privilages than most people (except housing support, mental support, or anything that should be considered important). I've seen on Facebook comments that as soon as someone from the US says they are or have been in service, they seem to automatically win an argument and instead get thanked by other Americans.
It's brainwashing, created by fear and maintained by soldier hero worshipping.

donegaLroad

The Bishop Basher

Every time I see or hear some poor delusional misguided American sh1te on proudly about how their service men and women are over seas protecting them, their country and the world from these evil tyrants I get a little sick in my mouth..

How can entire nation be so deluded

War = Money

America has a love affair with both.

If you read Hillbilly elegy, it gives a good view of the US military and why certain groups join.

Guy:Incognito

What's the Irish obsession with how Americans live their lives?

Guy:Incognito

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

What's the Irish obsession with how Americans live their lives?

We are media saturated with American culture, look at the thread on DVD's people never rented 99% of the films mentioned will be produced in the US.

Hitman3000

Guy:Incognito wrote:

What's the Irish obsession with how Americans live their lives?

2003 to 2017 180,000 Iraqi civilians dead as a consequence of America's action. If the Americans just lived their lives and left others alone to live theirs it'd be great.

Your Face

One is too many and all that but for a bit of perspective:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saddam_Hussein%27s_Iraq

Awaiting the argument of 'they should have go in sooner etc.'

Mutant z

Fighting for your freedom in a country at the other side of the world how does that make sense.

Cheerful Spring

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

What's the Irish obsession with how Americans live their lives?

Where would the Irish economy be without American investment? Our TV stations are saturated with American content. We are basically a mini American state.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

What's the Irish obsession with how Americans live their lives?

Giving out about them when they lap up every bit of their culture, buy all their products, watch all their shows.

It's bizarre behaviour really.

They do the same with the British to a certain extent.

donegaLroad

Hitman3000 wrote: »

2003 to 2017 180,000 Iraqi civilians dead as a consequence of America's action. If the Americans just lived their lives and left others alone to live theirs it'd be great.

Saddam was planning to drop the dollar in favour of the Euro to trade oil, back in 2001.

Gaddafi was planning to do the same in 2011 (except it wasn't to be the Euro, he was hoping to create the African Dinar)

When Iran started to swap their oil for commodities back in 2012, US warships moved into the Persian Gulf.

I think its more about defending the petro-dollar than it is about defending 'freedom'.