Adverse Possession

neveah123

I'm wondering if anyone can give me some advice and simple explanations about the process of adverse possession.

As I am aware, you must be in possession of the land/property for a period of 12 years before you can register for adverse possession. But I'm just wondering, how does one prove that? Is there something that can be done on the commencement of/during the 12 year period. I have been doing my research but find myself a bit lost and confused when it comes to the requirements etc.

How does one register for possessory title? Should this be done on commencement of gaining possession of a property, as proof? And can this statutory period be passed down from a deceased relative? AFAIK, all previous occupants of the property have died intestate. The land is unregistered.

Any explanations or advice would be greatly appreciated, keeping in mind I have no knowledge or experience in land law, everything I know now is from Googling!

TIA

Fred Swanson

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IsaacWunder

The theory of how it works is based on statute of limitations. If I owe you €100 and you never ask me for it back, after six years you can no longer sue for it. That is because the statute expires. For land the statute expires after 12 years.

The idea is that 12 years is long enough for a person to realise that someone is in their land. If a person doesn't care, or bother to try and get their land back after 12 years the law effectively says you had your chance, but wasted it.

Obviously the above is ridiculously simplified, but it should help you grasp the concept. Go see a solicitor if you need specific advice.

neveah123

IsaacWunder wrote: »

The theory of how it works is based on statute of limitations. If I owe you €100 and you never ask me for it back, after six years you can no longer sue for it. That is because the statute expires. For land the statute expires after 12 years.

The idea is that 12 years is long enough for a person to realise that someone is in their land. If a person doesn't care, or bother to try and get their land back after 12 years the law effectively says you had your chance, but wasted it.

Obviously the above is ridiculously simplified, but it should help you grasp the concept. Go see a solicitor if you need specific advice.

Yes I am planning to go to a solicitor but am trying to do as much as I can myself before seeing one. I'm just trying to figure out which form is required for the application, as I was under the impression it was Section 49 form 5 but that seems to only be for registered land.

I was just seeing if there was anyone here who could give me an idea of what forms I need to be writing up to apply for a possessory title by adverse possession for unregistered land

Peregrinus

It's unregistered land. There aren't any forms you can fill out that will do this. It's the facts, not the paperwork, that are the foundation of your title.

You need to occupy the land for at least 12 years, but in reality probably a good deal longer. If anybody takes court proceedings to eject you, you defend them by claiming adverse posssession and giving evidence of your own occupation of the land for the requisite period. The evidence will be things like your personal testimony, the testimony of neighbouring occupiers, documentary evidence of you receiving mail at the property, paying contractors to work on the property, etc, etc.

The real test of whether you own land is whether you can sell it. When the time comes to do so, you'll offer it for sale under a contract which stipulates that your title is possessory only, and that evidence of title will be your sworn declaration regarding possession, declarations from others, etc, etc. Realistically, this will make it difficult to sell and will limit the price you can hope to get, but if you price it low enough somebody may eventually buy. The sale to them then becomes the foundation of what will, eventually, be a new root of title.

neveah123

Peregrinus wrote: »

It's unregistered land. There aren't any forms you can fill out that will do this. It's the facts, not the paperwork, that are the foundation of your title.

You need to occupy the land for at least 12 years, but in reality probably a good deal longer. If anybody takes court proceedings to eject you, you defend them by claiming adverse posssession and giving evidence of your own occupation of the land for the requisite period. The evidence will be things like your personal testimony, the testimony of neighbouring occupiers, documentary evidence of you receiving mail at the property, paying contractors to work on the property, etc, etc.

The real test of whether you own land is whether you can sell it. When the time comes to do so, you'll offer it for sale under a contract which stipulates that your title is possessory only, and that evidence of title will be your sworn declaration regarding possession, declarations from others, etc, etc. Realistically, this will make it difficult to sell and will limit the price you can hope to get, but if you price it low enough somebody may eventually buy. The sale to them then becomes the foundation of what will, eventually, be a new root of title.

Thank you for your reply. I'm just trying to get all the info I can myself and try do whatever needs doing without a solicitor.

Does the statutory period get passed down by adverse possessors in the event of death? ie. if a family member was an adverse possessor, and when they passed away intestate would the time period continue on?

My interest in this is not fueled by any willing to sell land whatsoever.

Hypothetically speaking, if a property was left dormant and a "squatter" moved into it, treated it as their own, locked it up & excluded any others from entering, what kind of proof would they need to supply to apply for adverse possession? And can they begin proceedings immediately after gaining access to the property, or must they wait the 12 years before they can do anything legally?

TIA

Peregrinus

neveah123 wrote: »

Thank you for your reply. I'm just trying to get all the info I can myself and try do whatever needs doing without a solicitor.

Does the statutory period get passed down by adverse possessors in the event of death? ie. if a family member was an adverse possessor, and when they passed away intestate would the time period continue on?

You start again. A cumulative occupation period of 12 years by two different people is no use. You have to be able to point to someone who has been in occupation for 12 years.

neveah123 wrote: »

Hypothetically speaking, if a property was left dormant and a "squatter" moved into it, treated it as their own, locked it up & excluded any others from entering, what kind of proof would they need to supply to apply for adverse possession? And can they begin proceedings immediately after gaining access to the property, or must they wait the 12 years before they can do anything legally?

You've got no title of any kind until you have been in possession for 12 years. So there are no proceedings, registration, etc steps that you can take until you have been in exclusive occupation for at least that period.

Note that it's not enough to exclude others; you yourself must be in occupation. So simply fencing it and locking it would not be enough; you'd have to be occupying it in some substantial way, e.g. living there, planting and harvesting crops, something of the kind, depending obviously on the nature of the property.

neveah123

Peregrinus wrote: »

You start again. A cumulative occupation period of 12 years by two different people is no use. You have to be able to point to someone who has been in occupation for 12 years.


You've got no title of any kind until you have been in possession for 12 years. So there are no proceedings, registration, etc steps that you can take until you have been in exclusive occupation for at least that period.

Note that it's not enough to exclude others; you yourself must be in occupation. So simply fencing it and locking it would not be enough; you'd have to be occupying it in some substantial way, e.g. living there, planting and harvesting crops, something of the kind, depending obviously on the nature of the property.

But what evidence would the land reg accept? If someone moved into a property they knew had been left empty for a prolonged period of time, could they not just say "oh, well I have been living here 12 years". What rights does the estranged owner have, if they hadn't been inside the property for the 12 years?

And I read online somewhere, that there is such thing as "successive squatters" where an individual can claim adverse possession, say the first adverse possessor occupied the property, openly and notoriously, for 6 years, then the "successive squatter" occupied it for the remaining 6 years, I read the two periods are then added together. Now I may have read that on an English site, are the laws here much different?

Another thing I've read is that if the property is inherited per se from a deceased relative, the statutory period is reduced to 6 years? Is this true? And if so, must the relative have died testate?

Thanks so much for all your help, I'm trying to interpret all I'm finding online as correctly as possible but it's a lot easier to speak to someone!

Fred Swanson

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neveah123

Fred Swanson wrote: »

12 years of receipts for utilities/taxes would be a start.

A solicitor will know how to apply and the required proofs. It is not as straightforward as you might think.

It sounds to me like you have your eye on some vacant property and you want to acquire it by AP.

Yes but I want to learn as much as I can and understand the ins and outs myself.

No that's not the case at all.

Fred Swanson

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neveah123

Fred Swanson wrote: »

The PRAI are very unlikely to accept an AP registration from a lay person without rigorous proofs and sworn affidavits in place.

Well I was thinking I could construct the required forms and gather the information and proofs I can myself. At present I am just interested in learning all I can about adverse possession and the land registry requirements for my own knowledge. And I find this site invaluable as people can share their knowledge with me and for that I am grateful.

I am aware that if someone was lodging an affidavit to the land reg a solicitor would be required but can a lay person not do the donkey work themselves? I feel some people just aren't bothered with the workload which is why they would opt for a solicitor to do it for them.

Peregrinus

neveah123 wrote: »

And I read online somewhere, that there is such thing as "successive squatters" where an individual can claim adverse possession, say the first adverse possessor occupied the property, openly and notoriously, for 6 years, then the "successive squatter" occupied it for the remaining 6 years, I read the two periods are then added together. Now I may have read that on an English site, are the laws here much different?

On checking, I find what I said earlier here is not correct. Even during the twelve-year period, the occupier has some rights based on his possession of the property (though he doesn't, at this point, have rights against the disposessed owner), and he can pass these on. So if I occupy the land for, say, 10 years and then transfer my interest in it to you, you only need to occupy for another two years in order to complete the 12-year period.

The problem, of course, is how do I transfer my rights to you? I have nothing registered, and no documents of title. If I simply move out and you move in, that;s not necessarily a transfer of rights; just the end of one occupation and the commencement of another (and the dispossessed owner will argue this point very strongly when you get around to asserting your claim to adverse possession two years after moving in). So where this mostly happens is in cases of inheritance; I move in, then I marry, then I die, my surviving spouse continues in occupation on the basis that she has inherited my possession of the property.

neveah123 wrote: »

Another thing I've read is that if the property is inherited per se from a deceased relative, the statutory period is reduced to 6 years? Is this true? And if so, must the relative have died testate?

The limitation period for an action brought by someone claiming to be entitled to property out of the estate of a deceased person is six years. This is so whether the entitled arises under a will or on intestacy. So if I die, and you are entitled on my death to Blackacre, and you don't get it, you have six years to bring proceedings.

This doesn't necessarily mean, however, that the occupier of Blackacre gets full title after six years. All it means is that you can't bring proceedings to recover it. But my executor/legal personal representative can; they won't be barred until the 12 years have expired.

raymick

My neighbour encroached on my land when he built his extension and let’s say violently intimidated us into keep out of it, after 6 years they abandoned the property and the bank eventually having not been able to locate them reposessed the house after it stood idiol for 7 years. When I found out the bank had taken it back I contacted them about the extension when they put it up for auction I got a solicitor. So it was put on the contract of sale that there was a problem the new owner was made aware and purchased it now he wants to apply for an adverse possession after 6 months, can he do this

Corruptedmorals

My understanding is no because the clock has reset. The extension might exist for more than 12 years but the new owner has to be in possession of it for that amount of time.

randomguy

raymick wrote: »

My neighbour encroached on my land when he built his extension and let’s say violently intimidated us into keep out of it, after 6 years they abandoned the property and the bank eventually having not been able to locate them reposessed the house after it stood idiol for 7 years. When I found out the bank had taken it back I contacted them about the extension when they put it up for auction I got a solicitor. So it was put on the contract of sale that there was a problem the new owner was made aware and purchased it now he wants to apply for an adverse possession after 6 months, can he do this

Yes (or maybe, anyway), but probably not because he is claiming that he himself has acquired title to that strip by way of possession. He will probably apply on the basis that he acquired title from the bank/neighbour to that strip by purchasing it from the bank/neighbour, and the bank/neighbour had acquired it, by the time they sold it to him, by way of adverse possession over the previous 12 years.

To do so, the new neighbour will have to prove (by affidavit) that either the neighbour and/or bank actually possessed it for 12 years. They probably wouldn't have bought it unless the bank was giving them a serious discount or else giving them documentation to support the claim.

Or he might also claim as a successive possessor himself (rather than a purchaser), but he will still need the same evidence of possession up until he took possession, but for 11-and-a-half years rather than 12 (since he will have 6 months as a successive possessor).

Either way, unless you are happy for him to have title, you should be talking to a solicitor.