Difficult Lodgers after Giving Notice to Leave

Retropesssir

Hello everyone,

I'm once again back due to a lodger problem. Two bad experiences in the last month while the previous two years have been fine.

This time it's a couple. They moved in 2 months ago and since then it's been absolutely horrible, and my other lodgers can't bare to live with them anymore, including myself. We have voiced to them on multiple occasions everything that's disrespectful they do. The only plus side to them is that they pay rent on time. In a final effort to communicate the problems they are causing and asking how they will rectify this (otherwise its the boot), they came across as very angry and hostile. The male has already been quite petty.

I have a contract with them saying neither party can give less than thirty days notice. However since I wrote my termination of lodging letter to them yesterday, they've been an absolute nightmare taking the things that already bothered us to the next level.

(i.e constantly coming home drunk loud and chattery, thinking they are quiet, versus now coming home at 5am and slamming doors being purposefully loud). God knows what they'll do the remaining 29 days
.
Do I have any hold against them to not make our lives a living hell the next month?

Samuel T. Cogley

Okay why have you got that silly agreement in place - people really do over complicate this RAR thing. IMHO you're now bound by contract. If a lodger wants to move out let them, don't hold them to 30 days notice and don't be held to it yourself either. As you've put yourself in a corner I'd just grin and bear it for the month.

In future don't bother with a written agreement, and give anti-social people 48 hours or less to piss off.

Just have house rules which you get the lodger to sign.

EDIT: What does your contract say (if anything) about anti-social behaviour?

Cash_Q

When you say lodgers to you mean they are lodgers in a house you own? It is my understanding that they are 'licensees' and not tenants therefore you are not required to give them any notice and can ask them to leave immediately. Maybe I'm am totally wrong and apologies if so but this is genuinely what I have heard.

As previous poster says you've backed yourself into a corner giving them 30 days in writing.

Retropesssir

Hi! Actually my contract with them does say not to partake in anti social behaviour. And actually since i posted this, they came home at 5am and were being completely loud and disturbing, which is when I brought up this part of their contract to them:

1.10 Respect for others
The lodger must not: act in an antisocial manner towards th other Lodgers, Tenants or any visitor to the property; make excessive noise; allow any visitors to act in an antisocial manner;leave rubbish in inappropriate places, or use the property for illegal purposes.

I have pointed this out to them, and said if they breach contract, that they will be asked to leave with a notice of either seven days or immediately.

The girl now has taken it upon herself to ask for landlords details, and is trying to see if I'm registered with prtb. I actually have a registration letter and she's trying to say I am not. Landlord also says I am. I have informed him about them, and he definitely does not want me giving them his number (I don't blame him).

Now she's written in the group chat her mother will be here Sunday morning and parked in the driveway overnight? She's trying to find every way to be completely malicious, saying I cannot give her the boot with 7 days time. I said their 30 days stands as long as they comply with the contract. Nobody has acted hostile towards them and I've informed them in a civil manner about the contract and to not be disrespectful or hostile or else I will act accordingly.

Now my problem is, the police will only get involved to the extent of being here when I have them kicked out. My question is in regards to that prior, how do I go about getting them out when they breach contract (i.e anti social behaviour?).

I keep reading "change the locks" but I have a contract that has saved my bum more often than not, so I do not regret the contract. But without breaching it myself, when they do, how do I get them out if they start being a pain, given the contract.

Retropesssir

Cash_Q wrote: »

When you say lodgers to you mean they are lodgers in a house you own? It is my understanding that they are 'licensees' and not tenants therefore you are not required to give them any notice and can ask them to leave immediately. Maybe I'm am totally wrong and apologies if so but this is genuinely what I have heard.

As previous poster says you've backed yourself into a corner giving them 30 days in writing.

Hi, sorry for the confusion, correct they are licensees.

Samuel T. Cogley

Retropesssir wrote: »

Hi! Actually my contract with them does say not to partake in anti social behaviour. And actually since i posted this, they came home at 5am and were being completely loud and disturbing, which is when I brought up this part of their contract to them:

1.10 Respect for others
The lodger must not: act in an antisocial manner towards th other Lodgers, Tenants or any visitor to the property; make excessive noise; allow any visitors to act in an antisocial manner;leave rubbish in inappropriate places, or use the property for illegal purposes.

I have pointed this out to them, and said if they breach contract, that they will be asked to leave with a notice of either seven days or immediately.

The girl now has taken it upon herself to ask for landlords details, and is trying to see if I'm registered with prtb. I actually have a registration letter and she's trying to say I am not. Landlord also says I am. I have informed him about them, and he definitely does not want me giving them his number (I don't blame him).

Now she's written in the group chat her mother will be here Sunday morning and parked in the driveway overnight? She's trying to find every way to be completely malicious, saying I cannot give her the boot with 7 days time. I said their 30 days stands as long as they comply with the contract. Nobody has acted hostile towards them and I've informed them in a civil manner about the contract and to not be disrespectful or hostile or else I will act accordingly.

Now my problem is, the police will only get involved to the extent of being here when I have them kicked out. My question is in regards to that prior, how do I go about getting them out when they breach contract (i.e anti social behaviour?).

I keep reading "change the locks" but I have a contract that has saved my bum more often than not, so I do not regret the contract. But without breaching it myself, when they do, how do I get them out if they start being a pain, given the contract.

Okay you don't own the house?

That could put a different spin on things. I'm not sure if sub-tenants can gain Part IV rights immediately or not. There are requirements on sub-tenants to be informed of the nature of the tenancy - your contract may not be as superfluous as I first thought.

Retropesssir

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Okay you don't own the house?

That could put a different spin on things. I'm not sure if sub-tenants can gain Part IV rights immediately or not. There are requirements on sub-tenants to be informed of the nature of the tenancy - your contract may not be as superfluous as I first thought.

Hi. From what I've read, only get IV rights after 6 months. Which they can then ask the landlord for after 6 months. They are not sub-tenants. They are legally licensee's and the contract they hold with me states I am the tenant, they are licensees in the dwelling, rules, rents, etc. It's irrelevant if I am the owner or main tenant.

If a verbal contract is legal in Ireland between two parties about an agreement, than a written one certainly is? Especially if it is under the rent-a-room scheme? Correct me if I'm wrong in thinking this, I'm here for all the advice I can get.

4ensic15

Retropesssir wrote: »

Hi. From what I've read, only get IV rights after 6 months. Which they can then ask the landlord for after 6 months. They are not sub-tenants. They are legally licensee's and the contract they hold with me states I am the tenant, they are licensees in the dwelling, rules, rents, etc. It's irrelevant if I am the owner or main tenant.

If a verbal contract is legal in Ireland between two parties about an agreement, than a written one certainly is? Especially if it is under the rent-a-room scheme? Correct me if I'm wrong in thinking this, I'm here for all the advice I can get.

The rent a room scheme is a tax situation. Your situation is one of contract.

Retropesssir

4ensic15 wrote: »

The rent a room scheme is a tax situation. Your situation is one of contract.

Ah lovely. I didn't mean to say they are one in the same, but it's a taxation scheme put forth by the government, and therefore my contract with them in regards to it makes in valid, versus some contract about the fairies. (Now whether that is true or not, it was just my thinking, so I welcome all advice).

Do you know what I am allowed to do if they engage in antisocial behaviour prior to the termination date? I can see them being really difficult and also, I need to find someone to fill the room. I can already picture if I need to do house viewings that they will leave their room messy, or not allow me to show it.

To be fair they were very rude and disrespectful already before their notice, I have already gotten a taste of how things will escalate/ continue.

I have told them that it would only be ceased from 30 days down to seven or immediately depending on the situation. They don't seem to care.

antoinolachtnai

What is the worst thing that can happen in he various scenarios, do you think?

Retropesssir

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

What is the worst thing that can happen in he various scenarios, do you think?

Well at the moment, they're currently try to meddle with MY contract with the Landlord/PRTB. They sent a message saying that the house is not registered and that I could get in a lot of trouble for having them here. I informed them that I am in fact registered (with my own letter and all). She took some screen shot of the public listing where my house is not shown. However when I searched myself I could find it so she probably put something in wrong. My landlord confirmed on the phone, and I can hold my own physical registration paper I received from the PRTB.

They also said they are by law legally entitled to my landlords info. Actually, they only are after the 6mo period. They've been here 2. I feel like they actually think that the PRTB applies to them as tenants? I've been clear that they are not, so I'm unsure where the confusion is and where they are getting their info.

I've given them a very fair notice but they are now trying to get malicious and they are being just dickheads around the house, so I certainly don't want to live with this the remainder of their time here. They came home drunk and loud at 5 in the morning (common occurrence) the other night (after I gave them their notice) and they were significantly more loud than on any other occasion, which was already loud. This disrupts the sleeping of the other licensee's that are here (and to whom I must also look out for) and myself. This is when I told her if it happens again, and she thereby breaches the contract, that they will be out by 7 days instead of 30.

To be honest I've no idea what they are capable of, to which I asked how to deal with the scenario should it arise. (I warned them of the 7 days if they are disturbing our peace and being anti-social as per ur contract holds them to. They said it's illegal for me to kick them out with 7 days. As far as I read, it isn't.)

My other lodger/licensee found her Facebook where she publicly called out a previous tenant who was doing the same thing as myself that kept their deposit after they decided a week later that they no longer wanted to live there without notice. Someone who lived in the house said that its normally the scenario if you don't give any notice. And when she was moving into my house, she stated that the room mates at her boyfriends place didn't like her, and why they were trying to find a place together.

Red flags I obviously missed. She has trouble everywhere she goes.

antoinolachtnai

You haven't really answered my question. What is the worst thing they can do to you if you throw them out?

What is the worst thing they can do if you don't?

Retropesssir

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

You haven't really answered my question. What is the worst thing they can do to you if you throw them out?

What is the worst thing they can do if you don't?

I did answer your question when I stated "I have no idea what they are capable of", which is the point of researching my options should it come to anything they think of. it's really irrelevant to come up with ways until the end of the earth what they may or may not do. My power and my question lays in what I can do prior to the 30 days notice if (and irrelevant to me how) it comes to how to evict - given said contract.

antoinolachtnai

Well let me tell you what I see.

As I see it your options are to immediately throw them out, or not.

If you don't throw them out, they will cause and are causing disruption. You and your housemates will live in great discomfort, at best. Your other housemates will leave.

If you do throw them out, I don't see what they can really do about it. They could go to Court, but I don't think they would, but if they did I don't see how it would benefit them. (Now, that is not advice, it is just my assessment that they can't do much about it.)

They could also do something disruptive or destructive. But they are already doing that anyway.

Retropesssir

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Well let me tell you what I see.

As I see it your options are to immediately throw them out, or not.

If you don't throw them out, they will cause and are causing disruption. You and your housemates will live in great discomfort, at best. Your other housemates will leave.

If you do throw them out, I don't see what they can really do about it. They could go to Court, but I don't think they would, but if they did I don't see how it would benefit them. (Now, that is not advice, it is just my assessment that they can't do much about it.)

They could also do something disruptive or destructive. But they are already doing that anyway.

I fully see your point, which has been what I've been trying to communicate on this thread the entire time :P

On all the forums, people are saying to just change the locks. Pack their things and keep it in a safe place for pick-up.
I'm worried that if I do that, they will show the Garda their contract with me stating their residency here, as well as my 30 day termination letter. That the Garda will allow them back into my house, regardless if they are licensee/lodgers. I am trying to ask here where my rights in kicking them out, given this info

When I called the Garda, they stated its a civil matter and they don't escort anybody from the property.

If I didn't have a contract with them I'd just change the locks no bother. The contract is what is tripping me up.

antoinolachtnai

Did they garda give you to understand that they would help these people enforce this 'contract'?

How does anything in your contract change anything in the third paragraph of what I said in my last post?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Retropesssir

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

They seem like the type of people that would. I anyhow would not trust them when coming to collect things. If I were to ask Garda to be on premises to make sure they don't act out, they could easily tell the Garda they live there, and show the contract. No?

Retropesssir

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Did they garda give you to understand that they would help these people enforce this 'contract'?

How does anything in your contract change anything in the third paragraph of what I said in my last post?

The Garda did seem to be on their side about the legal aspect allowing them to live there for the full 30 day duration, regardless what I said. When I explained the antisocial behaviour part, they told me I basically had to stick it out until my contract states. Only after would they intervene for trespassing.

antoinolachtnai

You have your contract (your lease). They have theirs.

You could ask the when they are coming and you will put everything out on the step for them to collect.

You could make sure there is someone in the house with you and not let them in.

None of this is advice. I don't know the exact circumstances. It's just laying out a few 'options'.

antoinolachtnai

Retropesssir wrote: »

The Garda did seem to be on their side about the legal aspect allowing them to live there for the full 30 day duration, regardless what I said. When I explained the antisocial behaviour part, they told me I basically had to stick it out until my contract states. Only after would they intervene for trespassing.

Well, now you have their views. You have to decide what to do really.

Retropesssir

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

You have your contract (your lease). They have theirs.

You could ask the when they are coming and you will put everything out on the step for them to collect.

You could make sure there is someone in the house with you and not let them in.

None of this is advice. I don't know the exact circumstances. It's just laying out a few 'options'.

From what I've read I could get in some serious trouble for leaving their belongings outside. If it gets to that point, that I need to keep it in a safe place for them to collect, and that they have XXX amount of days to collect.

My worry here is that they contact the guards and DO go to court about it all. That the guards in the meantime can ask me to let them back in. So far everything I've done is legal, and they really are THAT malicious they would take it there. They wanted to (and I think did?) try to take another person for keeping their deposit, although they left without appropriate notice. Basically forfeiting their deposit.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

antoinolachtnai

The Pope might ask you to let them back in. Leo Varadkar might ask you to let them back in. It doesn't mean you necessarily have to do it.

I was talking about them saying when they wanted to pick the stuff up. You leave it out by appointment. Or tell them you'll drop it off somewhere. Send a taxi with it. Whatever.

Maybe they will bring you to Court. Maybe they won't. I think they probably won't, but if they do, so what? You'll deal with it when the time comes. There are certainly lots of interesting things that could be said about this situation legally speaking. We could write ten pages about the pros and cons of it, but so what? In the end, I don't see that you've done anything that can't be justified, but I don't know all the facts, or what might happen in practice.

You (and your housemates) need to decide what you want to do.

These people have wilfully disrupted your home. Personally, I couldn't live with these people in my home, but it is up to you.

TheAnalyst_

Boot them out. Simple.

Retropesssir

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

Boot them out. Simple.

Can I LEGALLY do this, given my contract with them.

TheAnalyst_

Retropesssir wrote: »

Can I LEGALLY do this, given my contract with them.

Probably yes and practically most certainly yes. You can point to breach of your contract with anti social behaviour. They cannot use the PRTB to claim against you so I don't see them engaging a soclicitor for a lodgeing issue.

nuac

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