Supplementary welfare.. waiting time?

vickvick

Wondering if anyone can help with this?

My daughter is pregnant and moved back home from UK before christmas with her boyfriend. because she's only 17 (the boyfriend is older)and classed as a minor she was told she cannot receive any benefits, basically it was expected that she move back home with me, even though she's been living independently for over a year in UK. I managed to find a house for her and her boyfriend to move into with very reasonable rent, so used my own savings to pay the deposit before it went and I was completely prepared to have to pay the rent until her boyfriend got sorted with pps number etc. I thought about six-eight weeks...

He's been looking for work, but can't drive and we live rurally, he's had a couple of interviews but nothing came of them. He got his pps number and applied for supplementary welfare. The SWA officer told him he had to apply for jobseekers to get SWA, so he did that and went back to her the next week (they're only in the office once a week). She told him he couldn't get anything until they approved his jobseekers application!?... WTF! I've now spent all my savings and have fallen behind on my own rent, my mum is having to buy their food every week and things are getting close to baby time (ten weeks left). The boyfriend rang the number they gave him to see where his application was at and was told they hadn't decided or processed his application yet.. This is three weeks now... plus hoop jumping since before Christmas!...

This doesn't sound right to me. Just wondering if anyone has any ideas as to wether they're just being dicked about with by a power hungry harpie, or if things do actually take this long to process now, I always thought Supplementary Welfare was meant to be precisely for those in immediate need?? I'm earning only just over minimum wage and my mum is a pensioner.. WE HAVE NO MONEY LEFT! Help? Do they need to make a bigger fuss and become a pain in the hole until they get something? Can't see how more in need the kids could be to be honest!

splinter65

vickvick wrote: »

Wondering if anyone can help with this?

My daughter is pregnant and moved back home from UK before christmas with her boyfriend. because she's only 17 (the boyfriend is older)and classed as a minor she was told she cannot receive any benefits, basically it was expected that she move back home with me, even though she's been living independently for over a year in UK. I managed to find a house for her and her boyfriend to move into with very reasonable rent, so used my own savings to pay the deposit before it went and I was completely prepared to have to pay the rent until her boyfriend got sorted with pps number etc. I thought about six-eight weeks...

He's been looking for work, but can't drive and we live rurally, he's had a couple of interviews but nothing came of them. He got his pps number and applied for supplementary welfare. The SWA officer told him he had to apply for jobseekers to get SWA, so he did that and went back to her the next week (they're only in the office once a week). She told him he couldn't get anything until they approved his jobseekers application!?... WTF! I've now spent all my savings and have fallen behind on my own rent, my mum is having to buy their food every week and things are getting close to baby time (ten weeks left). The boyfriend rang the number they gave him to see where his application was at and was told they hadn't decided or processed his application yet.. This is three weeks now... plus hoop jumping since before Christmas!...

This doesn't sound right to me. Just wondering if anyone has any ideas as to wether they're just being dicked about with by a power hungry harpie, or if things do actually take this long to process now, I always thought Supplementary Welfare was meant to be precisely for those in immediate need?? I'm earning only just over minimum wage and my mum is a pensioner.. WE HAVE NO MONEY LEFT! Help? Do they need to make a bigger fuss and become a pain in the hole until they get something? Can't see how more in need the kids could be to be honest!

Did he ever live here before he came he 2 months ago? What was he doing in the UK? Was he working or on Benefits?
His problem is that here we have what’s called Habitual Residence Condition.
It was brought in in 2004 when the EU said that all workers within the EU could move freely from one country to another without needing work permits.
It prevents people from arriving in Ireland just to apply for benefits (which are very generous compared to some of the other countries).
You can see how that makes sense, I’m sure.
Now, as we have a special relationship with the UK then it’s a bit more relaxed when the people come from there(as your daughters boyfriend has) but it still makes it considerably more complicated then a straightforward JSA application.
Has he been asked to complete a HRC form?
No doubt they would be getting full benefits if they had stayed in the UK, was there a particular reason she came home?

splinter65

Vickvick here’s what citizens advice says about HRC and UK citizens.

Residence in the Common Travel Area is treated the same way as residence in Ireland for the purposes of the habitual residence condition (HRC). However, UK citizens who have recently moved to Ireland may find it more difficult to establish that their main centre of interest is in Ireland.

Tenigate

Can you claim your daughter as a dependent and get some sort of family income supplement?

In the meantime her bf can establish a few links to ireland, namely moving to an area with jobs and getting one.

splinter65

Tenigate wrote: »

Can you claim your daughter as a dependent and get some sort of family income supplement?

In the meantime her bf can establish a few links to ireland, namely moving to an area with jobs and getting one.

They’re not living with him, so, no.

vickvick

he was working in uk as self employed graphic designer, just starting off so wasn't making enough to do more than pay bills and eat. He's only claimed benefits involving rent supplement type things. He would move to an area with jobs if he could afford rent on the extortionately priced rooms/flats etc and if he wanted to ditch his pregnant girlfriend who is finding everything pretty stressful as it is. Obviously she would rather be round her family who are her main support network. I know about the habitual residence thing and totally get it, his name is on the lease, he has opened a bank account and applied for every job he could get to (including jobs in the nearest big town that we have bus access to). He's not here to use the system!

They wouldn't get benefits in the UK because he was working and my daughter is still considered a minor there too. They were looking for a flat as they were in shared house, they could not get council housing, or anything towards deposit and fees. She was actually told to go into sheltered mother and baby accommodation if she couldn't find a place once baby was born.... obviously, she decided she'd rather come home!

They aren't out to bleed the system, they don't want to rely on welfare, they've both been brought up to work, it's just right now they need a bit of help, which after all, is what welfare is meant to be about! (I thought). Just wanted to hear if anyone had any thoughts on why they're finding it so hard to access supplementary, as it says on welfare page that the payment is awarded to people who might not satisfy the usual payments rules, just so long as they're from the common travel area.. which he is!

Tenigate

Yep. I know you're just looking for advice. Fact is you have to be a giant pain in the ass.. not you, op, as - sorry to say but you're not able to provide for your daughter, who is a minor.
Your daughter needs to be a pain in the ass. Contact the hse, cwos, svp, local counsellors, etc. Bring docs showing rent arrears along with her. Go to the daily mail and do a sad face photo that she's facing eviction a week before paddys day.
As for her bf but who the f- is he, as far as welfare is concerned, but a welfare tourist. Still, he needs to nicely contact the same organisations and jump through the same hoops,and tell the same sad stories. If he got 1 day's work, it would really get things moving as he'd have a p45 to show he's really a jobseeker.

splinter65

vickvick wrote: »

he was working in uk as self employed graphic designer, just starting off so wasn't making enough to do more than pay bills and eat. He's only claimed benefits involving rent supplement type things. He would move to an area with jobs if he could afford rent on the extortionately priced rooms/flats etc and if he wanted to ditch his pregnant girlfriend who is finding everything pretty stressful as it is. Obviously she would rather be round her family who are her main support network. I know about the habitual residence thing and totally get it, his name is on the lease, he has opened a bank account and applied for every job he could get to (including jobs in the nearest big town that we have bus access to). He's not here to use the system!

They wouldn't get benefits in the UK because he was working and my daughter is still considered a minor there too. They were looking for a flat as they were in shared house, they could not get council housing, or anything towards deposit and fees. She was actually told to go into sheltered mother and baby accommodation if she couldn't find a place once baby was born.... obviously, she decided she'd rather come home!

They aren't out to bleed the system, they don't want to rely on welfare, they've both been brought up to work, it's just right now they need a bit of help, which after all, is what welfare is meant to be about! (I thought). Just wanted to hear if anyone had any thoughts on why they're finding it so hard to access supplementary, as it says on welfare page that the payment is awarded to people who might not satisfy the usual payments rules, just so long as they're from the common travel area.. which he is!

From SW point of view a man has arrived from the Uk and walked into a SW office and applied for financial assistance for himself and his partner.
Can you not see that it’s just not reasonable to expect to be put in a payment without a very thorough investigation?

Even if they get SWA, how are they going to pay the rent?
SWA is subject to HRC too.
Also:
Note re EU citizens in their first 3 months of residence

Where an EU citizen , who is not a worker, self-employed person or a person who retains such status and members of his or her family, arrives in Ireland, they do not qualify for any payment under the Social Welfare Acts, except for ENPs or UNPs under SWA, for the first three months of residence.

It is not necessary to fully test HRC in such cases. It is sufficient to indicate that under Section 17 (2) of the European Communities (Free Movement of Persons) Regulations 2015, (SI No 548 of 2015) the person is not entitled to receive assistance under the Social Welfare Acts for the first three months of residence.

However, decision makers should take care to check if the person making an application is a worker, or the family member of a worker or a person who retains such status, before applying SI 548 in this way (see part 3 of section 5 for more information regarding who is classified as an EU worker).

Once again, UK citizens should be exempt from this, but it appears to be a very grey area even 14 years later.


They need to apply to the local authority to be considered as in need of housing (and the local authority will be asking lots of questions too) if they want to qualify for HAP.

vickvick

He was told he can't apply for rent allowance until he gets a payment decision. I know he'll only get just over 100 a week (since my daughter is only considered a minor), but at least on that he can get them food and electric, it takes some of the pressure off one of the members of the family at least.

As a parent I'll do anything in my power to help them out and speaking from personal experience, the threat of eviction is not a logical or fair situation to be in, the stress involved is horrific, I would not be able to sit back and let their lives unravel like that just to prove a point. All they need is a little bit of help to find their feet at the time they need it most and to actually try and enjoy the process of being pregnant and having a new baby without horrific amounts of fear and stress about not being able to afford basic neccessities ... surely not too much to ask in a civilised country?

Cheers for your replies, I guess all they can do is just keep phoning every day and going in every wednesday to see the social welfare officer. He's been in the country for over three months now, hopefully something will move on it soon.

splinter65

Most counties now have finished with rent supplement and have moved on to HAP.
That’s why I mentioned getting on the housing list.
They need to be on the housing list in order to be eligible for HAP.
When the claimant (your daughters partner) becomes a parent and he’s claiming for her and his child, the amount payable will go up to the full over 26 rate by the way.
I appreciate your concern for your daughter but I can’t understand why you took out a lease on a property for them when there was no gauruntee of any fixed income?
I also don’t understand why you think that being a “civilized country” means that we have to house feed and heat and clothe anyone who arrives here.
That doesn’t make any sense.

DoctorEdgeWild

Could you all move in together to one property? That way you reduce your outgoings. Could the Dad go back to England and work/save every penny and send it over to you guys to help support? (just suggesting as work is easy to come by here)

Tenigate

vickvick wrote: »

As a parent I'll do anything in my power to help them out and speaking from personal experience, the threat of eviction is not a logical or fair situation to be in, the stress involved is horrific, I would not be able to sit back and let their lives unravel like that just to prove a point. All they need is a little bit of help to find their feet at the time they need it most and to actually try and enjoy the process of being pregnant and having a new baby without horrific amounts of fear and stress about not being able to afford basic neccessities ... surely not too much to ask in a civilised country?

Get off it. You should have given your daughter - a minor by the way! - a room in your home instead of the charade you orchestrated which, if it works out as you planned, will result in the full range of state benefits.

vickvick

OK, didn't expect the brutal replies, Ireland isn't the country it once was! people used to give a ****. I'm not going to continue with the conversation only to say,

1: I've always supported my kid with the decisions SHE makes in HER life, unlike most people, I believe that kids have the capacity to make their own decisions and I've always encouraged her to be independent. As a result she is the sort of human who does not want to live at home with mummy. There is a room here for her FOREVER. I'd appreciate it if people didn't insinuate that I was a **** parent who had driven her out.

2: We leased the house because it is extremely cheap rent for this day and age, it wasn't going to hang about for long, I got in there first and knew they would be able to afford it in the long-term. If you've ever rented you'll understand the competition involved in securing a home.

3: **** you!

BowWow

vickvick wrote: »

I've always supported my kid with the decisions SHE makes in HER life, unlike most people, I believe that kids have the capacity to make their own decisions and I've always encouraged her to be independent.

Seems you now expect the rest of us to now support her, her child, and her partner....

Squatter

vickvick wrote: »

I've always supported my kid with the decisions SHE makes in HER life, unlike most people, I believe that kids have the capacity to make their own decisions and I've always encouraged her to be independent. As a result she is the sort of human who does not want to live at home with mummy. There is a room here for her FOREVER. I'd appreciate it if people didn't insinuate that I was a **** parent who had driven her out.

So, in your view of the world, "supporting her" means asking the Irish taxpayer to bankroll this particular display of your daughter's independence?

And "being independent" means displaying the ability to "depend" on someone else to pick up the tab when she realises the outcome of having exercised "the capacity to make her own decisions"?

alroley

You let your 15 or 16 year old (as mentioned in your OP, she was living independently for over a year) daughter move away by herself to the UK?

She is a child and should be living with her parent/s in this situation.

cee_jay

Closing thread as OP has stated they will not be re-engaging further.