Possible solution to Reillo RDB issues

aare

Thought I would post this here in case it saves anyone else similar grief - (hoping symptoms will come up on search, which is how I spent hours while snowed in, googling boiler problems):

• Reillo RDB Fan runs, tries to fire shuts down
• Reillo RDB controller, pump and resistor burned out
• New Reillo RDB shuts down after 2 weeks
• Reillo RDB only runs held slightly out of boiler (DO NOT TRY THIS, it was done by qualified heating engineer) and shuts down as soon as you put it in.
• Burner (daily) and optic (hourly) shut down and need soot build up cleaning off
• Burner runs perfectly with case open (OUTDOORS - dangerous indoors)

As you can see, I have had SERIOUS FUN with this (much of it in a snowdrift, PJs and small hours of morning) . Yesterday I finally discovered the problem:

The condenser trap (much like a sink trap) under the middle of boiler had filled, blocked and eventually melted at the top. The replacement cost €5 and was DIY.

Edited to add that nobody told me you had to prime the trap with water but you do, and I just have:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056182324

I have seen all the above symptoms on various boards attached to various boilers cost people fortunes and lack solutions. It costs nothing to check the condenser trap. I will be checking mine at least once a year in future.

...and if you are having serious fun with your boiler I hope that solution solves it for you too...ideally before you have spent any more money.

(NB. Technically I am a little old lady)

Wearb

A phone call to your service guy would have saved you a lot of trouble. Thanks for posting. This was all well covered on another thread here.

aare

My service guy (the one who services it every year) was out twice - who do you think replaced the burner, and tested the replacement that only ran held out of the boiler?

A second service guy, checking as a favour didn't spot it either...it's something neither had ever seen before...and if you felt the trap it seemed perfectly firm and in position.

I am not going to blame either of them.

I only spotted it because I was cleaning and drying under the boiler.

...and having gone through every other thread I could find related to the symptoms the nearest I found was freezing in the condenser outlet which was not the problem, I just wanted to tie this to the symptoms for anyone (including service guys) who was flummoxed by similar issues...if it helps stand down the attitude, this already cost me €600 in replacing the original burner that was destroyed by this problem and other parts...it might be helpful for people (including service guys) to be aware it needs checked BEFORE the burner is a write off and there is 3 feet of snow on the ground?

Let me ALSO stress this was *NOT* a little bit of grit in the bottom, the condenser was totally seized with solid, coke like stuff...AND my service guy will be out to check and service the boiler and redo the flue gas analysis as soon as he can get here.

Wearb

I and most of the service guys on here would have spotted the problem before spending money on parts that didn’t need to be changed. I see too many being overcharged through poor diognosis by people who just keep throwing parts at the problem.

My post wasn’t to attack your post, just to show up what can happen when you don’t investigate and diagnose properly. Likewise, I know your post was also trying to be helpful.
I will make no further comments on this thread unless moderation is needed.

aare

The burner had to be replaced because it was burned out electrically control board, pump, probably optic - it could have been repaired but the parts would have cost nearly as much - and we didn't know what caused the problem (as a former electronics technician I am guessing a combination of steam and constant attempts to restart), but assumed it had to be a power surge at it was so extensive.

It gave no warning before it went and nobody threw unnecessary parts at anything. It looked like a purely electronic problem, new burner was in and running immediately, it was only two weeks later that it cut out. Service guy sacrificed his saturday evening to get it running in the dark. The original boiler had sooted up a couple of times in freezing temperatures after it was first installed and never did it again.

But this one stopped next morning. The snow started falling while service guy was trying to get back to me and made roads impassable.

There are some places where service guys have more work than they can handle and can't just turn up on demand, and even if they can, very few can make it through a couple of miles of 4 foot snow drifts even if they want to.

It was sheer luck I discovered it would run with the case open, and it did, all through the week I was cut off by snow.

I have 46 text messages with service guy trying to help me troubleshoot it and keep it going through the snow.

EVERYTHING went by the book, nobody did anything wrong (sometimes life is like that and there is nobody to blame), and I never grudge labour charges.

The point I am really making is that you need to make sure checking that trap is part of your annual service and just get down on the ground and visually check it if you have any other reason to check inside the case, because if I had, with some awareness of how much trouble it could cause, I would have saved myself the cost of a new burner and had far more comfort in the snow.

(If I had noticed it in the snow there were farmers walking out here to feed stock who could have brought a new trap up for me)

jimf

there are a few points on your post that would make a competent service engineer to suspect flugas recycling or flu blockage

I could but wont nearly guess the boiler make

aare

He figured out flu gas recycling or flu blockage as soon as it got sooty, it was WHERE that was the problem. The assumption (unseen due to aforementioned snow that fell before he could get back in daylight and do full service to try and locate problem) was a probably failed seal on the boiler leaking flu gas into case.

In the course of 7 snowed up days I was reading every thread I could find here and elsewhere. I didn't ask questions because my questions were all already answered.

It was absolute chance I found it, there was no problem with diagnosing because there was no warning at all until the first burner failed completely and needed replacement.

There was no doubt the trap needed replacing because the top had literally melted and the pipe was sitting firmly in the hard coke like deposits that had built up inside the trap.

Here is a question though, if I HAD found the problem while I was still snowed in would it have been ok to take out the trap and connect boiler directly to the outlet pipe for a few days - just to get the gas outside the case?

agusta

Did anyone open up the boiler and check the secondary heat exchanger for blockages?.is your boiler indoors,if so this boiler should have a balanced flue.ie burner getting air from outside.
A melted tray is the symptom.I really dont think you have got to the source of the problem.

aare

Thanks for suggestion, he is coming out in next few days to check over everything and do full service...

Only thing is, it wasn't just melted, it was blocked solid first, maybe limescale, truly unbelievable, and I am not sure how it ran at all.

It's not inside - hazarding a guess that I wouldn't have lived to tell the tale if it was.

Just running a search (when I ran searches on this I was running the symptoms, I didn't search for melted condenser trap at all) came across this thread:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056979166

Mentions problems with metal traps because no ball or float fitted, this one is plastic but has a swan neck and no sign of a ball at all.

Incidentally, this has run for 8 years with no trouble before, just a couple of wipes of the photocell when it was first fitted and, coincidentally, brutally cold weather. Except I don't believe in coincidence.

agusta

Can you see the condensate water discharging out the condensate pipe in to a drain or soak pit...,Did anyone open the boiler and check the baffles and secondary heat exchanger before the new burner was fitted

agusta

aare wrote: »

Thanks for suggestion, he is coming out in next few days to check over everything and do full service...

Only thing is, it wasn't just melted, it was blocked solid first, maybe limescale, truly unbelievable, and I am not sure how it ran at all.

It's not inside - hazarding a guess that I wouldn't have lived to tell the tale if it was.

Just running a search (when I ran searches on this I was running the symptoms, I didn't search for melted condenser trap at all) came across this thread:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056979166

Mentions problems with metal traps because no ball or float fitted, this one is plastic but has a swan neck and no sign of a ball at all.

Incidentally, this has run for 8 years with no trouble before, just a couple of wipes of the photocell when it was first fitted and, coincidentally, brutally cold weather. Except I don't believe in coincidence.

I dont really believe in coincidence either.i do believe in a build up of problems that eventually come to a head. A few of my many priorties on a service,
a/condensate trap is clean and condensate water can discharge freely to drain
b/flexible oil hose changed as per mi
c/flue gas analysis and printout to customer
d/appliance tested for any flue gas leaks
e/there is more,nozzle,baffles,secondary heat exchanger etc
If you got this done on every service i dont believe you would be having this trouble.

jimf

the problem with the condensate set so low in the boiler is its so easy to forget about the fall away from the condensate as agusta has pointed out above


little things can easily go undetected for a while but the problem with he boilers they will eventually come to the surface

my big concern would be why you needed a new burner I don't mean to be critical of your service engineer in any way

but its always a red flag to me re the ability to repair and diagnose the issues at hand

its an easy fix to replace the burner or in your case not a complete fix

my thinking would be you possibly needed a new set of electrodes and a new photocell for the old burner as they would have cooked with the heat build up in the boiler with the blockage maybe a control box but not likely

aare

JimF
Electrodes, pump and control box were all gone on burner (photocell untested) there was the option of fixing it but that would have cost nearly as much and not been covered by guarantee.

Seven days without heat just to get an engineer out here. When it started to fail again it was a race against snow.

If it happens again I would go for a recon but there just wasn't time to sort it all out.

Agusta
*I get a thorough service done every two years and last year was the year, always same guy.
*Both times the problem kicked off with sudden extreme cold (so did soot on photocell with original installation). I am not discounting that. Particularly as the burner ran more cleanly as weather warmed up and I could close case more.
*I am at quite an altitude here and have had problems with one and two stroke engines in those same weather conditions.
*As the kitchen drain turns out to be blocked as well it is possible that the outlet was sitting in water for at least some time, I know it was sitting in snow.

Living in the back of beyond is an huge contributing factor. But like both of you I never really consider a thing "fixed" until I know how it went wrong.

Tom44

I've already replace 3 traps this week
2 swan necks and one melted
Ye know the brand 😀

Good service people know what to service and what to look for, thanks OP for info. but we already (as service engineers, rather than DIY people) know this story to well already.

aare

Still, given an electrical failure you hardly look at the trap, he didn't get chance to get back to check cause of flu gases (that showed up two weeks later) yet due to snow (when I say "snowbound" I don't mean I couldn't get the car out, I mean really trapped by a couple of miles of drifts). I could nurse it along and keep it going, plenty of other people couldn't and they take priority.

Also by a fluke the trap was held so firmly in place. I know I tried it with my hand last week and it felt rock solid. There was no "give" to suggest putting the head down to look at it.

...and I wasn't trying to patronise ye guys...just put the information along with the symptoms so that NEXT time someone is googling around trying to find out what is wrong this possibility pops up for them.

Thank you for loads of information (on this thread and the others I found) too. 3 weeks ago a boiler was a "mystery box that produces heat" (when the first burner went all I knew was to check the photocell) - now I feel quite comfortable with it.

It is certainly running many times more efficiently and cleanly with the new trap.

aare

Better add the symptoms of the original burner failure (I wasn't kidding about the "little old lady" bit, my rememberer functions at 65% on it's best day).

Sudden temperature drop to freezing at sunset, woke up to cold radiators. The fan was starting about 30 seconds or so later it would try to fire for a few seconds stop, then the fan would start and go through the whole cycle again. It must have been doing that at least an hour for the rads to be cold. No soot on photocell. Engineer tried replacing the big resistor/electrode with no luck and found everything was burned out.

The only warning is that sometimes rads did not seem warm enough, but that's very subjective and might be imagination.

agusta

It wasnt an electrical problem with the burner so.it was a boiler issue.Until you get the boiler opened up and baffles checked for condition,[could possibly be warped/damaged] and the secondary heat exchanger checked/cleaned.You still have to find the source of the problem.You need a new firebird condensate trap.the burner set up to mi and flue gas analysis as per mi.

aare

I put the condensate trap in yesterday, and he's coming to do service over weekend...I'll make sure he checks everything you mention.

It is currently running fine, in a closed case, with no issues or soot at all, and no kero smell

The sudden drop in temperature from dry and sunny to below zero on the first evening it failed could have caused enough condensation from the failing trap (the case hadn't been opened since summer) to damage the electrics enough to prevent it locking out as it should have and hours (could have been 4 or 5 before I found it) of repeated attempts to fire could have done the rest.

With the new burner it did not fail until there was another sudden drop in temperature and it failed in a very different way by sooting up the burner and the photocell badly and locking out until they were cleaned, then repeating over and over unless it was run with the case open, in which case it ran steadily and cleanly, but with too much kero smell.

But we will see.