Diesel dilemma

ViperMAN

Hi everyone,

My Dad is thinking about buying a newer car. He has a 2007 Toyota Corollo which is petrol.

He seems to have a fancy for another Corollo or a Ford Focus - around the 151 year. He went to a Toyota and Ford dealer today for a test drive.

There was no second hand petrol cars, at all. Only diesel.

My advice to him was that they want him to buy diesel given what the government recently announced, etc.

Also, he won't do enough milage to warrant a diesel. The majority of days he would only be taking a 10 minute drive and back. Maybe once a month going somewhere an hour away.

So, my questions are:
- The only downsides to the government announcement I can see are that it will be hard to see it on later. I don't see the price of diesel going up (haulage companies would go spare). Is there anything else to consider with this?
- The dealer said that only the older diesels had issues doing small journeys. That the newer ones had no problems. Is this true or a sales trick?
- Any other thoughts?

Thanks!

Atlantic Dawn

Any diesel engine with a DPF will have issues on short journeys, I'd advise taking his business elsewhere to someone who knows what they are talking about.

DPF filters go through a regeneration process which removes this soot and lowers the filter pressure. There are three types of regeneration: active, passive, and forced. Active regeneration happens while the vehicle is not in use and takes 10 minutes on average to complete. Passive regeneration takes place while driving using the heat of the exhaust. This works well for vehicles that drive longer distances with few stops compared to those that perform short trips with many starts and stops. If the filter develops too much pressure then the last type of regeneration must be used - a forced regeneration. This involves a garage using a computer program to run the car, initiating a regeneration of the DPF manually.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_particulate_filter

Toyotafanboi

Modern diesels handle low mileage useage much worse than older diesels. If he's doing 10 minutes driving a day in a modern diesel he's in for hardship. It shouldn't be too hard to get a 2015 ish petrol Corolla/ Focus.

bazz26

CarsIreland have 21 petrol 2015 Corollas listed, can he not go to one of those dealers?

https://www.carsireland.ie/search-results.php?make_id%5B%5D=88&model_id%5B%5D=730&fuel_type_id=1&min_year=2015&max_year=2015&per_page=50

colm_mcm

I’m 2015, petrol only counted for 5% of Focus sales.

Corolla was 80:20 diesel:petrol.

Toyotafanboi

I would have thought the change was on by 2015, kinda surprised by that.

colm_mcm

Even in 2016 it was 92:8 for diesel on the Focus. 88:12 last year. 78:22 so far this year.

Toyotafanboi

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Modern diesels handle low mileage useage much worse than older diesels. If he's doing 10 minutes driving a day in a modern diesel he's in for hardship. It shouldn't be too hard to get a 2015 ish petrol Corolla/ Focus.

These issues were largely eliminated in anything sold in the last 6 years or so (or even before this). DPFs were an new tech before that and gave trouble nowadays tent are well able to handle sort trips once they get a longer drive every once in a while which almost every car will anyway.

ViperMAN

Matteo Spicy Sidewalk wrote: »

These issues were largely eliminated in anything sold in the last 6 years or so (or even before this). DPFs were an new tech before that and gave trouble nowadays tent are well able to handle sort trips once they get a longer drive every once in a while which almost every car will anyway.

Everybody seems to have a different opinion as to whether diesels cope well with short trips. Is there any factual evidence to support the fact that they do or don't?

grogi

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Modern diesels handle low mileage useage much worse than older diesels. If he's doing 10 minutes driving a day in a modern diesel he's in for hardship. It shouldn't be too hard to get a 2015 ish petrol Corolla/ Focus.

You are talking about 2008 diesels, when the DPF was introduced en masse. They are not modern.
Modern diesels don't have DPF issues because of such usage patterns.

Toyotafanboi

grogi wrote: »

You are talking about 2008 diesels, when the DPF was introduced en masse. They are not modern.
Modern diesels don't have DPF issues because of such usage patterns.

Maybe not as prolifically as it used to but it certainly still happens in modern vehicles, there is no question about that.

Zubeneschamali

grogi wrote: »

Modern diesels don't have DPF issues because of such usage patterns.

What exactly is different in these "Modern" diesels? I don't recall hearing of any new tech since 2008 which would fix the issue.

grogi

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Maybe not as prolifically as it used to but it certainly still happens in modern vehicles, there is no question about that.

Of course it happens.

Punctures happen as well... And what's more, the amount of punctures in diesels accounts for majority of them ;P

grogi

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

What exactly is different in these "Modern" diesels? I don't recall hearing of any new tech since 2008 which would fix the issue.

To name a few:
a) Updated injection technology - more precise in dosing the fuel massively reduces amount of created soot
b) Updated engine management software - to actively increase the temperature of the filter
c) Updated placement of the filters - to passively increase the temperature of the filter
d) Different oil requirement - to reduce ash deposits in the filter
e) Different internal geometry of the filters - to minimise the effects of ash formulation
f) Addition of 5th injector on the filter - to further increase the filter temperature

What's more, most of the time the DPF issues are caused not by the filter itself. The root cause is that the engine is not fed with enough oxygen. This often happens when the hoses with compressed air crack.

Shefwedfan

If he is looking at petrol then why not hybrid?

Or even full electric?

It does depend on his requirements but you just list low mileage. I know I bought a Leaf for my mother, now both her and my father use it everyday and his Qashqai sits up doing nothing from one week to the next.

For a man that said electric was a fad, he asked me the other day about trading up his Qashqai for the new Leaf so they could use it all the time

Shefwedfan

Matteo Spicy Sidewalk wrote: »

These issues were largely eliminated in anything sold in the last 6 years or so (or even before this). DPFs were an new tech before that and gave trouble nowadays tent are well able to handle sort trips once they get a longer drive every once in a while which almost every car will anyway.

I really do question why anyone would recommend a diesel car to someone who doesn't need a diesel engine?

Are people really that blind in this day and age to diesel engines? seriously. Ireland is one of the smallest countries in Europe but we have the highest ratio of diesel car. Why?

The only reason I can think is that people are too stupid to actually realise which type of fuel they should be using.

If you think I am wrong, look at the UK, small bit bigger than Ireland and they are selling diesel/petrol at 50/50 ratio.

In reality, 5% of people in Ireland have a requirement for diesel car(not counting commerical). Everyone else should be driving petrol/hybrid/electric

Ewan Hoosarmi

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I really do question why anyone would recommend a diesel car to someone who doesn't need a diesel engine?

Are people really that blind in this day and age to diesel engines? seriously. Ireland is one of the smallest countries in Europe but we have the highest ratio of diesel car. Why?

The only reason I can think is that people are too stupid to actually realise which type of fuel they should be using.

If you think I am wrong, look at the UK, small bit bigger than Ireland and they are selling diesel/petrol at 50/50 ratio.

In reality, 5% of people in Ireland have a requirement for diesel car(not counting commerical). Everyone else should be driving petrol/hybrid/electric

Comparing UK with Ireland is not a fair comparison. In the UK, diesel is dearer than petrol at the pump. It's the opposite here.

I drive a diesel automatic (euro6, double clutch) and the fuel economy is unreal. I don't do massive mileage, but the drives are usually fairly long. Diesel suits me down to the ground.

BEV would suit me better, but availability of models has let me down. The one that will soon be readily available, the Leaf 2, is a huge let down for a new model. Ioniq with the bigger battery or Kona, to be released here soon, hopefully, might be the one to move me over to EV for good.

ViperMAN

Thanks for all the responses.

I think getting an electric or hybrid would be the correct approach but it will be difficult to change his mindset.

Based on what I have heard here, the majority seem to think that getting a diesel wouldn't be the best option. So a petrol it is then.

It does seem there is no definite answer to this, everyone seems to have a different opinion.

Shefwedfan

ViperMAN wrote: »

Thanks for all the responses.

I think getting an electric or hybrid would be the correct approach but it will be difficult to change his mindset.

Based on what I have heard here, the majority seem to think that getting a diesel wouldn't be the best option. So a petrol it is then.

It does seem there is no definite answer to this, everyone seems to have a different opinion.

If petrol then I would look for Hybrid. Get best of both Worlds

As he already has a Toyota then he will be used to interior.

Shefwedfan

https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/toyota/auris/used-2015-152-toyota-auris-1-8-hybrid-dublin-fpa-5937283264671548230

Something like that I would suggest.....