ELM327's What should be my next EV? [Split Post]

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

If you have both home and work charging, then your Leaf 24kWh can easily do this even at the worst day of the year driving it hard?

Got rid of the leaf as above, I'm also in the (exceedingly long process it seems) process of buying an apartment where I will not have home charging for the foreseeable. Hence the need to do the round trip on one charge.

unkel

Without home charging and on a limited purchasing budget I see how a Zoe that has the range to do the commute, suddenly is the only EV option out there that suits! The AC fast charge is a nice bonus for travelling long distance on our current network with the chances of having to wait at a fast charger almost zero.

You bringing a battery lease one in from the UK?

Mancomb Seepgood

unkel wrote: »

Without home charging and on a limited purchasing budget I see how a Zoe that has the range to do the commute, suddenly is the only EV option out there that suits! The AC fast charge is a nice bonus for travelling long distance on our current network with the chances of having to wait at a fast charger almost zero.

You bringing a battery lease one in from the UK?

FWIW,I have noticed an increasing number of PHEVs using the AC at fast chargers.Now anyone with a modicum of decency would disconnect and move on for a Zoe driver,but it's something to be aware of.

But yeah, it's definitely the best choice if you don't have home charging.

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

Without home charging and on a limited purchasing budget I see how a Zoe that has the range to do the commute, suddenly is the only EV option out there that suits! The AC fast charge is a nice bonus for travelling long distance on our current network with the chances of having to wait at a fast charger almost zero.

You bringing a battery lease one in from the UK?

I will in all likelihood be bringing one from the UK, the price difference is severe. Unless Phil in electric autos can source me one for in the same ballpark as the UK prices I'll be bringing it in. The question at the moment is how cheap can I get a Q90 for or if I have to settle at a Q210.


The rationale in part is that you can get a full charge in 2 hours or 120km in 1 hour at a SCP so even if the fast charger is taken rudely by a PHEV I can use a nearby SCP. I also have 22kW at work. The ioniq is a better EV in almost every way, but I can't have one if I dont have home charging which - for the first few months - is how it's going to be. And I need to get out of this damn fossil car ASAP!

Is it not a bit risky relying on public\work charging ?

If the ionic is that much better to you then I’d hold off if it’s only for a few months.

Zoe is also a pretty slow car and over taking is a right pain above about 60-80 kph.

You’d also appreciate the Ionia battery heater in winter when you need to fast charge but if you intent using the 22 Kw AC points then that doesn’t really matter.

Without doubt AC charging is highly useful and having 22 kw charging will make all ac points fast and it will allow you to use our network to its full potential.

AC had saved me lots of time sitting at fast chargers even at 6.6 kw but 11 kw will save me even more time sitting at dc chargers.

I suppose it comes down to whether you can live with the Zoe for the sake of a few months without home changing.

Have you taken the Zoe in a proper long drive ?

ELM327

I was always the one that was on your side in the AC charging discussion for the 6.6 kW leaf. A ZE40 would be ideal because that would do almost 2 trips. I'd have at least 3 fast AC chargers and many 22kW on route so it's not risky at all IMO. It's leaving a bit exposed if suddenly 10 people buy EVs and take the spots first at work! Or if they make public AC charging punitively expensive. It's not even a guarantee that I will ever have home charging at this apartment.

The Ioniq is a better car but it can't be charged at a reasonable speed on AC and I am not prepared to wait 1 hour behind a leaf for the DC charger. With a zoe, everything is a mildly fast charger, with some actual fast chargers thrown in.

I've never driven one, no. But I have driven a rental clio which is a similar car (especially in underpowered 1.2 petrol guise). And I liked pretty much every EV I drive anyway. This isnt a car to "like" driving, this is for the commute. I'd be getting something interesting for the weekend. Fossil fueled with at least 8 cylinders (an exception may be made for a 5.9 cummins 6cyl).

thierry14

ELM327 wrote: »

I was always the one that was on your side in the AC charging discussion for the 6.6 kW leaf. A ZE40 would be ideal because that would do almost 2 trips. I'd have at least 3 fast AC chargers and many 22kW on route so it's not risky at all IMO. It's leaving a bit exposed if suddenly 10 people buy EVs and take the spots first at work! Or if they make public AC charging punitively expensive. It's not even a guarantee that I will ever have home charging at this apartment.

The Ioniq is a better car but it can't be charged at a reasonable speed on AC and I am not prepared to wait 1 hour behind a leaf for the DC charger. With a zoe, everything is a mildly fast charger, with some actual fast chargers thrown in.

I've never driven one, no. But I have driven a rental clio which is a similar car (especially in underpowered 1.2 petrol guise). And I liked pretty much every EV I drive anyway. This isnt a car to "like" driving, this is for the commute. I'd be getting something interesting for the weekend. Fossil fueled with at least 8 cylinders (an exception may be made for a 5.9 cummins 6cyl).

Why not get an i3 rex?

A year old one will be similar price to Zoe 40 in UK

Has that fun factor too, especially if you put wide tyres on it, could even give that 8 cylinder a test from a dig/roll

Almost hanging with an RS5, which no 170bhp/1300kg ICE could ever do

https://youtu.be/yGGMlPOQ-UM

Without home charging that's what I would be going for

ELM327

ZE 40 £13k -£15k in the UK.
I3 Rex (with the larger 33kWh battery) is not going for anywhere near that. Plus it's only a 4 seater and i don't like the look of them! (shh... don't tell mad lad)

thierry14

ELM327 wrote: »

ZE 40 £13k -£15k in the UK.
I3 Rex (with the larger 33kWh battery) is not going for anywhere near that. Plus it's only a 4 seater and i don't like the look of them! (shh... don't tell mad lad)

That must be with battery rental?

Owning outright is similar price to Zoe40

If your paying for battery rental what's the point of getting that Zoe over Ice equivalent?

Its like 120e a month for battery rental

That will get you 1200km a month easy in an equivalent ICE Clio

Are you buying the Zoe to save money or just want an EV

I don't think you will save money here

ELM327

120 a month (I think it's actually 80)
Versus 320 a month fuel...in a nicer car that doesnt pollute the environment and is always charged.

I'm looking at the i3 rex on Autotrader but can't see any below 18-19k in the rex 33kWh (ie like mad lad's one()

How do you know if it's the 33kWh?
Is this one?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201801293199466?make=BMW&fuel-type=Hybrid&model=I3&radius=1500&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&advertising-location=at_cars&sort=price-asc&postcode=bt11aa&page=1

unkel

I was (mistakenly) under the impression that you needed to free up the cash for your mortgage, so you only had a 4 figure sum to spend on a car that needed a range far beyond Leaf 24kWh. That only leaves a battery lease older Zoe + battery upgrade

ELM327 wrote: »

The Ioniq is a better car but it can't be charged at a reasonable speed on AC

I don't get you there. Surely you are in work for at least 4 hours every day? That's all it takes to AC charge Ioniq from 0%-100%

thierry14

ELM327 wrote: »

120 a month (I think it's actually 80)
Versus 320 a month fuel...in a nicer car that doesnt pollute the environment and is always charged.

I'm looking at the i3 rex on Autotrader but can't see any below 18-19k in the rex 33kWh (ie like mad lad's one()

How do you know if it's the 33kWh?
Is this one?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201801293199466?make=BMW&fuel-type=Hybrid&model=I3&radius=1500&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&advertising-location=at_cars&sort=price-asc&postcode=bt11aa&page=1

80e a month is pretty good

All the 33kWh are 17 reg

The would be about 30k all in to bring over

That i3 will work out a lot more expensive if you can get Zoe for 15k and only 80 month rental

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

I was (mistakenly) under the impression that you needed to free up the cash for your mortgage, so you only had a 4 figure sum to spend on a car that needed a range far beyond Leaf 24kWh. That only leaves a battery lease older Zoe + battery upgrade



I don't get you there. Surely you are in work for at least 4 hours every day? That's all it takes to AC charge Ioniq from 0%-100%

Yes but I'd have no charging elsewhere and run the risk of DC QC being occupied on a longer trip. I do a lot of driving at the weekend and I got more and more pissed off at the leaf queueing every 80-90 km. Zoe has fast or mild fast chargers all over the place and a 250km range.

thierry14 wrote: »

80e a month is pretty good

All the 33kWh are 17 reg

The would be about 30k all in to bring over

That i3 will work out a lot more expensive if you can get Zoe for 15k and only 80 month rental

Like I said... I don't particularly like the i3 but if it saved money over my probable 2 year TCO figure I'd make do for the rex convenience.
Perhaps I should make my own thread?

thierry14

ELM327 wrote: »

Perhaps I should make my own thread?

I think you should

Mad_Lad will be up soon to convince you

Oh I won't need to convince him, all he'll have to do is take the 33 Kwh for an all day drive, he'll have 170 odd kms range then he can stop somewhere for a spot of lunch or shopping , plug into a 3 phase charge point and get 22 Kwh in 2 hrs then he can drive a further 110 kms and then he can decide to stop at a fast charger plug into AC and have dinner or fire up the trusty old Rex and continue driving as long as he has petrol in the tank !

Convinced yet ELM327 ?

Take one for a good long test drive and I won't need to try and convince you any further, guaranteed when you pass the first queue at a DC charger you won't need further convincing !

The ride and handling are also good, it's a lot of fun.

The 22 Kwh i3 Rex will do about 100-130 Kms , it can be got cheaper but you'll need to use more petrol but is that such a bad thing ? yes we'd all like to be off Petrol 100% but it's not really possible right now with the current charging network + recharge times.

So while the i3 isn't visually appealing to everyone it actually grew on me and it's certainly the last thing I'm thinking about when I drive it anyway, it's a very nice place inside with the right spec.

4 seater car, all perfect for me very small boot but good for small buggy and a small suitcase or two but you can fit a pretty large bag in the front under the dash and because my Boys are still small I can fit more stuff on the floor because their feet don't reach the ground yet lol. So I actually fit quiet a bit in.

Zoe might be classed as a 5 seater but really, try fit 3 decent sized adults in the back of that , it does however have a larger boot.

Convinced ?

thierry14

ELM327 wrote: »

120 a month (I think it's actually 80)
Versus 320 a month fuel...in a nicer car that doesnt pollute the environment and is always charged.

I'm looking at the i3 rex on Autotrader but can't see any below 18-19k in the rex 33kWh (ie like mad lad's one()

How do you know if it's the 33kWh?
Is this one?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201801293199466?make=BMW&fuel-type=Hybrid&model=I3&radius=1500&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&advertising-location=at_cars&sort=price-asc&postcode=bt11aa&page=1

This is cheap

Even with battery rental of 80e a month

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201803064308479?advertising-location=at_cars&advertising-location=at_cars&year-from=2017&postcode=m52ty&model=ZOE&page=1&make=RENAULT&fuel-type=Electric&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New

beauf

I expect most people buying a super mini are trying to fit mainly kids, or kids and adults in the back seats, not three rugby players.

ELM327

thierry14 wrote: »

This is cheap

Even with battery rental of 80e a month

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201803064308479?advertising-location=at_cars&advertising-location=at_cars&year-from=2017&postcode=m52ty&model=ZOE&page=1&make=RENAULT&fuel-type=Electric&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New

Yes that's super cheap. Ideally I'd want the q90 though.

ELM327

beauf wrote: »

I expect most people buying a super mini are trying to fit mainly kids, or kids and adults in the back seats, not three rugby players.

Yes generally it would be 1 adult and/or 2 kids in the back.
But we have a prius too so if we needed 3 full seats there's always the fallback

So it comes down to this really.

You want a Fully electric car and are not not happy with the DC network at present then Zoe will make best use of the current infrastructure with it's fantastic AC charger, not really any other option.

You would like more EV range and not have to rely on public charging at all then Rex offers the most EV range ( 33 Kwh ) and the ability to continue on petrol forever.

The 22 Kwh i3 Rex can be got a lot cheaper and still have the ability to do 100-120 Kms EV possibly more in Summer. Downside is using more petrol but good side less reliance on public charging, always a good thing.

By the way, why were you thinking Rex again ? I didn't mention it lol.

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

I'd have no charging elsewhere and run the risk of DC QC being occupied on a longer trip. I do a lot of driving at the weekend and I got more and more pissed off at the leaf queueing every 80-90 km. Zoe has fast or mild fast chargers all over the place and a 250km range.

I understand the charger anxiety. This is likely to get much better shortly though. Before the end of the year is my expectation. Govt investment in fast chargers, private Irish investment in fast chargers (Lidl, petrol stations, etc), foreign investment in fast chargers (Ionity) and charging for charging :cool:

Zoe won't do anywhere near 250km at 120km/h (it can barely get up to that speed lol), not even in summer

And Zoe with battery lease is sale proof

In your case I would think long and hard about this. At least go drive one with the 41kWh battery and see what range you get at what speeds. And do you really want to spend up to 2 hours at a 22kW AC charger to charge it up? Even a almost an hour at a 43kW AC?

If you do a lot of driving at slower speeds, say 60-80km/h (doesn't sound like you though, does it ) and there are plenty of AC 22kW chargers around (but not so many fast chargers) it might make sense

If you have the budget, I think I would go i3 rex. If you're stuck with at sub 10k budget, it would have to be Zoe plus upgrade

ELM327

Yep I guess I'm doing a lot of thinking at the moment.
God help me I've even considered the new leaf.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

So it comes down to this really.

You want a Fully electric car and are not not happy with the DC network at present then Zoe will make best use of the current infrastructure with it's fantastic AC charger, not really any other option.

You would like more EV range and not have to rely on public charging at all then Rex offers the most EV range ( 33 Kwh ) and the ability to continue on petrol forever.

The 22 Kwh i3 Rex can be got a lot cheaper and still have the ability to do 100-120 Kms EV possibly more in Summer. Downside is using more petrol but good side less reliance on public charging, always a good thing.

By the way, why were you thinking Rex again ? I didn't mention it lol.

I guess this post kindof sums it up aswell.
I don't want to use fossil fuel ideally and the rex is too expensive for the 33kWh (which is the only one I'd consider).

The Zoe (particularly the ze40) offers the best compromise but even the Q90 takes too long at a fast charger on a longer trip and it's a small car.

If there was a 40kWh Ioniq it would be perfect.

I think this deserves to be split into another thread - when I started posting in this one I was all for getting a Zoe. @Moderator could you split out my "what EV should I get" posts to their own thread?? (Thanks! That was quick )

ELM327

Ok so the premise of this thread is really as follows:

I want an EV shortly, to last approx 2 years until my model 3 reservation is ready. I had a 24kWh leaf and did 65k km in approx 14 months so I'm no stranger to EVS and the problematic fast charge network.

I have a 120km round trip commute. No home charger, 22kW AC work charging pretty much available on demand currently.
I also do 2 round trips about 150km each most weekends. These are in the Meath and Dublin area mostly, so pretty good FCP cover and plentiful 22kW SCP coverage too.

Would not like to spend more than 8-10k for a cash purchase, willing to consider PCP for a new EV (EG new leaf) if the figures work for TCO over 2 years and the PCP deal is on a 2 year basis and not a 3 year basis. If it was to be that route, I would be taking the PCP intending to get rid of it after 2 years to get the model 3.

(Of course if a £30k model S comes up then all things change and I'd get the model S.)

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

God help me I've even considered the new leaf.

And why not. I know we are all disappointed in range and charging speed, but it could still be a good solution, particularly for people who do longish range driving but mostly not near motorways, like DrPhil in the north west of Ireland

Kona 64kWh might seem an attractive option too? Or do either of these eat up most of your budget for Model 3?

ELM327

The Kona isnt out here yet. Is there an expected release? If it had 64kWh and Ioniq like efficiency that would be a world beater!

I couldnt afford to buy the leaf/other 30+k EV outright and then buy the model 3 too. I'd be looking for a PCP rental for two years.

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

If it had 64kWh and Ioniq like efficiency that would be a world beater!

The 64kWh is something like a €3k option. But yeah with it (and most of the Ioniq internals), it will be the first econobox long range EV. Too small for me to even consider it though.

Shefwedfan

ELM327 wrote: »

The Kona isnt out here yet. Is there an expected release? If it had 64kWh and Ioniq like efficiency that would be a world beater!

I couldnt afford to buy the leaf/other 30+k EV outright and then buy the model 3 too. I'd be looking for a PCP rental for two years.

I got this from Hyundai yesterday

Hi XXX,


thanks for getting in touch. The electric KONA is likely to arrive in dealerships for 182 but we cannot confirm that for definite as of yet. Hyundai Ireland expects to be in a position to confirm that in the next month or so.

Thanks,
The Hyundai Ireland Team

thierry14

ELM327 wrote: »

The Kona isnt out here yet. Is there an expected release? If it had 64kWh and Ioniq like efficiency that would be a world beater!

I couldnt afford to buy the leaf/other 30+k EV outright and then buy the model 3 too. I'd be looking for a PCP rental for two years.

I think you should wait tbh

Buying a second rate EV now to sell in 2 years is alot of hassle

You have an ICE to keep you going till then anyway?

Prius you said, can't get much better than that for economy and reliability

2nd gen EV's like Model 3, Leaf/Koreans 64kWh are here over next 2 years

Ford going to be announcing a Focus with same same 200bhp/64kWh from LG soon, that would be a nice car

New Focus looks nice and sporty

In the meantime I would work on getting home charging, chargers won't be free forever if you do have to use or change job etc

If they charge 24c kWh like Tesla doing its almost same as running ICE

ELM327

The one thing I won't be doing is waiting. I've had a few weeks of fossil fuel now and I'm sick of it. Over a tank of diesel a week, it's not sustainable.

PCP - doesnt really matter if it's resellable or not, you can hand it back at the end with nothing further owed worst case.


Model 3/64kWh Hyundai would be gen 3 not gen 2.

unkel

It seems to have gone missing in the split post, but you have work charging, no home charging (not even granny cable charging) and your commute is 50km each way? What other driving patterns do you have?