ELM327's What should be my next EV? [Split Post]

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

If you have both home and work charging, then your Leaf 24kWh can easily do this even at the worst day of the year driving it hard?

Got rid of the leaf as above, I'm also in the (exceedingly long process it seems) process of buying an apartment where I will not have home charging for the foreseeable. Hence the need to do the round trip on one charge.

unkel

Without home charging and on a limited purchasing budget I see how a Zoe that has the range to do the commute, suddenly is the only EV option out there that suits! The AC fast charge is a nice bonus for travelling long distance on our current network with the chances of having to wait at a fast charger almost zero.

You bringing a battery lease one in from the UK?

Mancomb Seepgood

unkel wrote: »

Without home charging and on a limited purchasing budget I see how a Zoe that has the range to do the commute, suddenly is the only EV option out there that suits! The AC fast charge is a nice bonus for travelling long distance on our current network with the chances of having to wait at a fast charger almost zero.

You bringing a battery lease one in from the UK?

FWIW,I have noticed an increasing number of PHEVs using the AC at fast chargers.Now anyone with a modicum of decency would disconnect and move on for a Zoe driver,but it's something to be aware of.

But yeah, it's definitely the best choice if you don't have home charging.

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

Without home charging and on a limited purchasing budget I see how a Zoe that has the range to do the commute, suddenly is the only EV option out there that suits! The AC fast charge is a nice bonus for travelling long distance on our current network with the chances of having to wait at a fast charger almost zero.

You bringing a battery lease one in from the UK?

I will in all likelihood be bringing one from the UK, the price difference is severe. Unless Phil in electric autos can source me one for in the same ballpark as the UK prices I'll be bringing it in. The question at the moment is how cheap can I get a Q90 for or if I have to settle at a Q210.


The rationale in part is that you can get a full charge in 2 hours or 120km in 1 hour at a SCP so even if the fast charger is taken rudely by a PHEV I can use a nearby SCP. I also have 22kW at work. The ioniq is a better EV in almost every way, but I can't have one if I dont have home charging which - for the first few months - is how it's going to be. And I need to get out of this damn fossil car ASAP!

Is it not a bit risky relying on public\work charging ?

If the ionic is that much better to you then I’d hold off if it’s only for a few months.

Zoe is also a pretty slow car and over taking is a right pain above about 60-80 kph.

You’d also appreciate the Ionia battery heater in winter when you need to fast charge but if you intent using the 22 Kw AC points then that doesn’t really matter.

Without doubt AC charging is highly useful and having 22 kw charging will make all ac points fast and it will allow you to use our network to its full potential.

AC had saved me lots of time sitting at fast chargers even at 6.6 kw but 11 kw will save me even more time sitting at dc chargers.

I suppose it comes down to whether you can live with the Zoe for the sake of a few months without home changing.

Have you taken the Zoe in a proper long drive ?

ELM327

I was always the one that was on your side in the AC charging discussion for the 6.6 kW leaf. A ZE40 would be ideal because that would do almost 2 trips. I'd have at least 3 fast AC chargers and many 22kW on route so it's not risky at all IMO. It's leaving a bit exposed if suddenly 10 people buy EVs and take the spots first at work! Or if they make public AC charging punitively expensive. It's not even a guarantee that I will ever have home charging at this apartment.

The Ioniq is a better car but it can't be charged at a reasonable speed on AC and I am not prepared to wait 1 hour behind a leaf for the DC charger. With a zoe, everything is a mildly fast charger, with some actual fast chargers thrown in.

I've never driven one, no. But I have driven a rental clio which is a similar car (especially in underpowered 1.2 petrol guise). And I liked pretty much every EV I drive anyway. This isnt a car to "like" driving, this is for the commute. I'd be getting something interesting for the weekend. Fossil fueled with at least 8 cylinders (an exception may be made for a 5.9 cummins 6cyl).

thierry14

ELM327 wrote: »

I was always the one that was on your side in the AC charging discussion for the 6.6 kW leaf. A ZE40 would be ideal because that would do almost 2 trips. I'd have at least 3 fast AC chargers and many 22kW on route so it's not risky at all IMO. It's leaving a bit exposed if suddenly 10 people buy EVs and take the spots first at work! Or if they make public AC charging punitively expensive. It's not even a guarantee that I will ever have home charging at this apartment.

The Ioniq is a better car but it can't be charged at a reasonable speed on AC and I am not prepared to wait 1 hour behind a leaf for the DC charger. With a zoe, everything is a mildly fast charger, with some actual fast chargers thrown in.

I've never driven one, no. But I have driven a rental clio which is a similar car (especially in underpowered 1.2 petrol guise). And I liked pretty much every EV I drive anyway. This isnt a car to "like" driving, this is for the commute. I'd be getting something interesting for the weekend. Fossil fueled with at least 8 cylinders (an exception may be made for a 5.9 cummins 6cyl).

Why not get an i3 rex?

A year old one will be similar price to Zoe 40 in UK

Has that fun factor too, especially if you put wide tyres on it, could even give that 8 cylinder a test from a dig/roll

Almost hanging with an RS5, which no 170bhp/1300kg ICE could ever do

https://youtu.be/yGGMlPOQ-UM

Without home charging that's what I would be going for

ELM327

ZE 40 £13k -£15k in the UK.
I3 Rex (with the larger 33kWh battery) is not going for anywhere near that. Plus it's only a 4 seater and i don't like the look of them! (shh... don't tell mad lad)

thierry14

ELM327 wrote: »

ZE 40 £13k -£15k in the UK.
I3 Rex (with the larger 33kWh battery) is not going for anywhere near that. Plus it's only a 4 seater and i don't like the look of them! (shh... don't tell mad lad)

That must be with battery rental?

Owning outright is similar price to Zoe40

If your paying for battery rental what's the point of getting that Zoe over Ice equivalent?

Its like 120e a month for battery rental

That will get you 1200km a month easy in an equivalent ICE Clio

Are you buying the Zoe to save money or just want an EV

I don't think you will save money here

ELM327

120 a month (I think it's actually 80)
Versus 320 a month fuel...in a nicer car that doesnt pollute the environment and is always charged.

I'm looking at the i3 rex on Autotrader but can't see any below 18-19k in the rex 33kWh (ie like mad lad's one()

How do you know if it's the 33kWh?
Is this one?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201801293199466?make=BMW&fuel-type=Hybrid&model=I3&radius=1500&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&advertising-location=at_cars&sort=price-asc&postcode=bt11aa&page=1

unkel

I was (mistakenly) under the impression that you needed to free up the cash for your mortgage, so you only had a 4 figure sum to spend on a car that needed a range far beyond Leaf 24kWh. That only leaves a battery lease older Zoe + battery upgrade

ELM327 wrote: »

The Ioniq is a better car but it can't be charged at a reasonable speed on AC

I don't get you there. Surely you are in work for at least 4 hours every day? That's all it takes to AC charge Ioniq from 0%-100%

thierry14

ELM327 wrote: »

120 a month (I think it's actually 80)
Versus 320 a month fuel...in a nicer car that doesnt pollute the environment and is always charged.

I'm looking at the i3 rex on Autotrader but can't see any below 18-19k in the rex 33kWh (ie like mad lad's one()

How do you know if it's the 33kWh?
Is this one?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201801293199466?make=BMW&fuel-type=Hybrid&model=I3&radius=1500&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&advertising-location=at_cars&sort=price-asc&postcode=bt11aa&page=1

80e a month is pretty good

All the 33kWh are 17 reg

The would be about 30k all in to bring over

That i3 will work out a lot more expensive if you can get Zoe for 15k and only 80 month rental

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

I was (mistakenly) under the impression that you needed to free up the cash for your mortgage, so you only had a 4 figure sum to spend on a car that needed a range far beyond Leaf 24kWh. That only leaves a battery lease older Zoe + battery upgrade



I don't get you there. Surely you are in work for at least 4 hours every day? That's all it takes to AC charge Ioniq from 0%-100%

Yes but I'd have no charging elsewhere and run the risk of DC QC being occupied on a longer trip. I do a lot of driving at the weekend and I got more and more pissed off at the leaf queueing every 80-90 km. Zoe has fast or mild fast chargers all over the place and a 250km range.

thierry14 wrote: »

80e a month is pretty good

All the 33kWh are 17 reg

The would be about 30k all in to bring over

That i3 will work out a lot more expensive if you can get Zoe for 15k and only 80 month rental

Like I said... I don't particularly like the i3 but if it saved money over my probable 2 year TCO figure I'd make do for the rex convenience.
Perhaps I should make my own thread?

thierry14

ELM327 wrote: »

Perhaps I should make my own thread?

I think you should

Mad_Lad will be up soon to convince you

Oh I won't need to convince him, all he'll have to do is take the 33 Kwh for an all day drive, he'll have 170 odd kms range then he can stop somewhere for a spot of lunch or shopping , plug into a 3 phase charge point and get 22 Kwh in 2 hrs then he can drive a further 110 kms and then he can decide to stop at a fast charger plug into AC and have dinner or fire up the trusty old Rex and continue driving as long as he has petrol in the tank !

Convinced yet ELM327 ?

Take one for a good long test drive and I won't need to try and convince you any further, guaranteed when you pass the first queue at a DC charger you won't need further convincing !

The ride and handling are also good, it's a lot of fun.

The 22 Kwh i3 Rex will do about 100-130 Kms , it can be got cheaper but you'll need to use more petrol but is that such a bad thing ? yes we'd all like to be off Petrol 100% but it's not really possible right now with the current charging network + recharge times.

So while the i3 isn't visually appealing to everyone it actually grew on me and it's certainly the last thing I'm thinking about when I drive it anyway, it's a very nice place inside with the right spec.

4 seater car, all perfect for me very small boot but good for small buggy and a small suitcase or two but you can fit a pretty large bag in the front under the dash and because my Boys are still small I can fit more stuff on the floor because their feet don't reach the ground yet lol. So I actually fit quiet a bit in.

Zoe might be classed as a 5 seater but really, try fit 3 decent sized adults in the back of that , it does however have a larger boot.

Convinced ?

thierry14

ELM327 wrote: »

120 a month (I think it's actually 80)
Versus 320 a month fuel...in a nicer car that doesnt pollute the environment and is always charged.

I'm looking at the i3 rex on Autotrader but can't see any below 18-19k in the rex 33kWh (ie like mad lad's one()

How do you know if it's the 33kWh?
Is this one?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201801293199466?make=BMW&fuel-type=Hybrid&model=I3&radius=1500&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&advertising-location=at_cars&sort=price-asc&postcode=bt11aa&page=1

This is cheap

Even with battery rental of 80e a month

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201803064308479?advertising-location=at_cars&advertising-location=at_cars&year-from=2017&postcode=m52ty&model=ZOE&page=1&make=RENAULT&fuel-type=Electric&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New

beauf

I expect most people buying a super mini are trying to fit mainly kids, or kids and adults in the back seats, not three rugby players.

ELM327

thierry14 wrote: »

This is cheap

Even with battery rental of 80e a month

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201803064308479?advertising-location=at_cars&advertising-location=at_cars&year-from=2017&postcode=m52ty&model=ZOE&page=1&make=RENAULT&fuel-type=Electric&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New

Yes that's super cheap. Ideally I'd want the q90 though.

ELM327

beauf wrote: »

I expect most people buying a super mini are trying to fit mainly kids, or kids and adults in the back seats, not three rugby players.

Yes generally it would be 1 adult and/or 2 kids in the back.
But we have a prius too so if we needed 3 full seats there's always the fallback

So it comes down to this really.

You want a Fully electric car and are not not happy with the DC network at present then Zoe will make best use of the current infrastructure with it's fantastic AC charger, not really any other option.

You would like more EV range and not have to rely on public charging at all then Rex offers the most EV range ( 33 Kwh ) and the ability to continue on petrol forever.

The 22 Kwh i3 Rex can be got a lot cheaper and still have the ability to do 100-120 Kms EV possibly more in Summer. Downside is using more petrol but good side less reliance on public charging, always a good thing.

By the way, why were you thinking Rex again ? I didn't mention it lol.

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

I'd have no charging elsewhere and run the risk of DC QC being occupied on a longer trip. I do a lot of driving at the weekend and I got more and more pissed off at the leaf queueing every 80-90 km. Zoe has fast or mild fast chargers all over the place and a 250km range.

I understand the charger anxiety. This is likely to get much better shortly though. Before the end of the year is my expectation. Govt investment in fast chargers, private Irish investment in fast chargers (Lidl, petrol stations, etc), foreign investment in fast chargers (Ionity) and charging for charging :cool:

Zoe won't do anywhere near 250km at 120km/h (it can barely get up to that speed lol), not even in summer

And Zoe with battery lease is sale proof

In your case I would think long and hard about this. At least go drive one with the 41kWh battery and see what range you get at what speeds. And do you really want to spend up to 2 hours at a 22kW AC charger to charge it up? Even a almost an hour at a 43kW AC?

If you do a lot of driving at slower speeds, say 60-80km/h (doesn't sound like you though, does it ) and there are plenty of AC 22kW chargers around (but not so many fast chargers) it might make sense

If you have the budget, I think I would go i3 rex. If you're stuck with at sub 10k budget, it would have to be Zoe plus upgrade

ELM327

Yep I guess I'm doing a lot of thinking at the moment.
God help me I've even considered the new leaf.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

So it comes down to this really.

You want a Fully electric car and are not not happy with the DC network at present then Zoe will make best use of the current infrastructure with it's fantastic AC charger, not really any other option.

You would like more EV range and not have to rely on public charging at all then Rex offers the most EV range ( 33 Kwh ) and the ability to continue on petrol forever.

The 22 Kwh i3 Rex can be got a lot cheaper and still have the ability to do 100-120 Kms EV possibly more in Summer. Downside is using more petrol but good side less reliance on public charging, always a good thing.

By the way, why were you thinking Rex again ? I didn't mention it lol.

I guess this post kindof sums it up aswell.
I don't want to use fossil fuel ideally and the rex is too expensive for the 33kWh (which is the only one I'd consider).

The Zoe (particularly the ze40) offers the best compromise but even the Q90 takes too long at a fast charger on a longer trip and it's a small car.

If there was a 40kWh Ioniq it would be perfect.

I think this deserves to be split into another thread - when I started posting in this one I was all for getting a Zoe. @Moderator could you split out my "what EV should I get" posts to their own thread?? (Thanks! That was quick )

ELM327

Ok so the premise of this thread is really as follows:

I want an EV shortly, to last approx 2 years until my model 3 reservation is ready. I had a 24kWh leaf and did 65k km in approx 14 months so I'm no stranger to EVS and the problematic fast charge network.

I have a 120km round trip commute. No home charger, 22kW AC work charging pretty much available on demand currently.
I also do 2 round trips about 150km each most weekends. These are in the Meath and Dublin area mostly, so pretty good FCP cover and plentiful 22kW SCP coverage too.

Would not like to spend more than 8-10k for a cash purchase, willing to consider PCP for a new EV (EG new leaf) if the figures work for TCO over 2 years and the PCP deal is on a 2 year basis and not a 3 year basis. If it was to be that route, I would be taking the PCP intending to get rid of it after 2 years to get the model 3.

(Of course if a £30k model S comes up then all things change and I'd get the model S.)

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

God help me I've even considered the new leaf.

And why not. I know we are all disappointed in range and charging speed, but it could still be a good solution, particularly for people who do longish range driving but mostly not near motorways, like DrPhil in the north west of Ireland

Kona 64kWh might seem an attractive option too? Or do either of these eat up most of your budget for Model 3?

ELM327

The Kona isnt out here yet. Is there an expected release? If it had 64kWh and Ioniq like efficiency that would be a world beater!

I couldnt afford to buy the leaf/other 30+k EV outright and then buy the model 3 too. I'd be looking for a PCP rental for two years.

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

If it had 64kWh and Ioniq like efficiency that would be a world beater!

The 64kWh is something like a €3k option. But yeah with it (and most of the Ioniq internals), it will be the first econobox long range EV. Too small for me to even consider it though.

Shefwedfan

ELM327 wrote: »

The Kona isnt out here yet. Is there an expected release? If it had 64kWh and Ioniq like efficiency that would be a world beater!

I couldnt afford to buy the leaf/other 30+k EV outright and then buy the model 3 too. I'd be looking for a PCP rental for two years.

I got this from Hyundai yesterday

Hi XXX,


thanks for getting in touch. The electric KONA is likely to arrive in dealerships for 182 but we cannot confirm that for definite as of yet. Hyundai Ireland expects to be in a position to confirm that in the next month or so.

Thanks,
The Hyundai Ireland Team

thierry14

ELM327 wrote: »

The Kona isnt out here yet. Is there an expected release? If it had 64kWh and Ioniq like efficiency that would be a world beater!

I couldnt afford to buy the leaf/other 30+k EV outright and then buy the model 3 too. I'd be looking for a PCP rental for two years.

I think you should wait tbh

Buying a second rate EV now to sell in 2 years is alot of hassle

You have an ICE to keep you going till then anyway?

Prius you said, can't get much better than that for economy and reliability

2nd gen EV's like Model 3, Leaf/Koreans 64kWh are here over next 2 years

Ford going to be announcing a Focus with same same 200bhp/64kWh from LG soon, that would be a nice car

New Focus looks nice and sporty

In the meantime I would work on getting home charging, chargers won't be free forever if you do have to use or change job etc

If they charge 24c kWh like Tesla doing its almost same as running ICE

ELM327

The one thing I won't be doing is waiting. I've had a few weeks of fossil fuel now and I'm sick of it. Over a tank of diesel a week, it's not sustainable.

PCP - doesnt really matter if it's resellable or not, you can hand it back at the end with nothing further owed worst case.


Model 3/64kWh Hyundai would be gen 3 not gen 2.

unkel

It seems to have gone missing in the split post, but you have work charging, no home charging (not even granny cable charging) and your commute is 50km each way? What other driving patterns do you have?

liamog

A petrol car would need to do 2.5L/100km to have the same running cost as an Ioniq @0.24c/kWh compared to €1.31/L

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

It seems to have gone missing in the split post, but you have work charging, no home charging (not even granny cable charging) and your commute is 50km each way? What other driving patterns do you have?

I have a 120km round trip commute.
I also do 2 round trips about 150km each most weekends. These are in the Meath and Dublin area mostly, so pretty good FCP cover and plentiful 22kW SCP coverage too.

So it's about 60km each way. No chance of granny cable due to parking spot location vs apartment location.

unkel

And I assume:

-you will only want the car for maybe two years until you can pick up a Model 3?
-you really want a car that can do the 120km commute without charging (well with charging in work)
-you don't want a Leaf 30kWh (as you already had a Leaf)
-Budget: as little as possible but you can be flexible?
-Ideally the car can do the 150 km trips without charging, but you would end up at home without charge, so you have to fast or slow charge on these weekend trips
-must be full EV, or at least full EV almost all of the time (ruling out PHEV like Ampera / 330e / Outlander etc.)

Leaves only 3 options then:

1. Zoe. With battery lease you could upgrade to the longer range, and it would be a low cash option initially. Battery lease would make it sale proof though (or worthless). Not what you want after 2 years.
2. i3 REX. We all know ALL of the pros of this car - there are no cons :pac:
3. Ioniq. Great allrounder, but hard to get new, would set you back €30k and expensive second hand


You say you have plenty of AC charging around you. These chargers are mostly available too, unlike fast DC chargers. Could you live with the range of the Zoe 22? If you drive it handily, could it do your commute on most days except maybe some bad winter days? I think that is what I would buy if I were you. Bring one in as cheaply as you can from the UK and your depreciation should be very reasonable, which will be crucial in letting you save for Model 3. I haven't driven a Zoe either though - that's what you should go and do first, see if you like it as a car and could live with for your driving patterns

Linky

Battery owned '15 Zoe. You'd bring that in for €13k landed (no EPA for it though. Will it do 120km commute?)

Or a cheap i3 without REX (EPA 130km). Wouldn't cost much more than that. It would mean DC charging required on your weekend trips though, something you prefer to avoid. Range maybe too tight for commute. What's the cheapest REX realistically?

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

And I assume:

-you will only want the car for maybe two years until you can pick up a Model 3? YES
-you really want a car that can do the 120km commute without charging (well with charging in work) YES thats a must have
-you don't want a Leaf 30kWh (as you already had a Leaf) Hadn't really considered a 30kWh leaf, will possibly research the winter range on them. I liked my leaf but had resolved not to buy another due to poor dealer support.
-Budget: as little as possible but you can be flexible? Yes exactly. Few K I'd pay in cash but for anything above that it would be a short term loan or PCP
-Ideally the car can do the 150 km trips without charging, but you would end up at home without charge, so you have to fast or slow charge on these weekend trips ideally the car should be able to do more than 150 km easily. I accept if it's to do all the driving at the weekend some charging will be necessary
-must be full EV, or at least full EV almost all of the time (ruling out PHEV like Ampera / 330e / Outlander etc.) Have not ruled out PHEV but it must have a real world range of ~120km to do work commute ~100% EV. That rules out compliance PHEVs like the 330e, and the Ampera/Outlander range is not enough either. Only leaves the i3 Rex which I don't particularly like and the 33kWh is too expensive
Leaves only 3 options then:

1. Zoe. With battery lease you could upgrade to the longer range, and it would be a low cash option initially. Battery lease would make it sale proof though (or worthless). Not what you want after 2 years. This was my initial decision. 5-6k for the car, pay 3k for upgrade, then drive for the 2 years with no range anxiety and trade in for my model 3.
2. i3 REX. We all know ALL of the pros of this car - there are no cons :pac:I don't particularly like the i3 and the 33kWh is too expensive in Rex
3. Ioniq. Great allrounder, but hard to get new, would set you back €30k and expensive second hand
I was looking at this one online. But thats the only one available for sale in Ireland :eek:. Ioniq would be a potential option but you can't buy them.

You say you have plenty of AC charging around you. These chargers are mostly available too, unlike fast DC chargers. Could you live with the range of the Zoe 22? If you drive it handily, could it do your commute on most days except maybe some bad winter days? I think that is what I would buy if I were you. Bring one in as cheaply as you can from the UK and your depreciation should be very reasonable, which will be crucial in letting you save for Model 3. I haven't driven a Zoe either though - that's what you should go and do first, see if you like it as a car and could live with for your driving patterns

Linky

Battery owned '15 Zoe. You'd bring that in for €13k landed (no EPA for it though. Will it do 120km commute?)

Or a cheap i3 without REX (EPA 130km). Wouldn't cost much more than that. It would mean DC charging required on your weekend trips though, something you prefer to avoid. Range maybe too tight for commute. What's the cheapest REX realistically?

See my replies in red. (Can you spot the office/white collar :pac:)

I don't want a battery owned 22kWh Zoe. If I'm buying a battery owned one it's the ZE40

I'm leaning at the moment between the new leaf on PCP (- but that leaves me potentially exposed if there is no "equity" at the end of 2 years vs the GFMV with the new 60kWh coming), the Zoe option I mentioned initially, trying to find an Ioniq that works vis a vis the monthly payments, or something completely off the wall. (well priced 30kWh leaf).

This 30kWh looks good but still pricey, only has 3.3 charging. But it's SVE so has all the options I had in my original leaf.
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2016-nissan-leaf-sve-tekna-30kw/17528008

But on reflection, 18k is too much to pay for a 2 year old old model leaf. IMO anyway.

KCross

1. Zoe. With battery lease you could upgrade to the longer range, and it would be a low cash option initially. Battery lease would make it sale proof though (or worthless). Not what you want after 2 years.
This was my initial decision. 5-6k for the car, pay 3k for upgrade, then drive for the 2 years with no range anxiety and trade in for my model 3.

Did you research that and figure out the TCO with the increased rental figure after the upgrade? I dont think it would be €3k and the monthly wont be €80 either.


Also, what happens when you go to trade it in? Does the dealer have to take over the rental? No dealer is going to do that in this country and I dont think Tesla would either, so I think you would have to sell privately which could be difficult. Have you looked into the logistics of this option and what the rental agreement fine print says?

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

1. Zoe. With battery lease you could upgrade to the longer range, and it would be a low cash option initially. Battery lease would make it sale proof though (or worthless). Not what you want after 2 years.
This was my initial decision. 5-6k for the car, pay 3k for upgrade, then drive for the 2 years with no range anxiety and trade in for my model 3.

Did you research that and figure out the TCO with the increased rental figure after the upgrade? I dont think it would be €3k and the monthly wont be €80 either.


Also, what happens when you go to trade it in? Does the dealer have to take over the rental? No dealer is going to do that in this country and I dont think Tesla would either, so I think you would have to sell privately which could be difficult. Have you looked into the logistics of this option and what the rental agreement fine print says?

The EU price is 3k for the upgrade.

The rental goes from 80 to 100 I think if you get the bigger battery, and keep the highest mile option.

Dealer doesnt take over the rental, I see that some private dealers have them for sale - I presume there's an optout to say the car is sold to a dealer. You're right, more research is needed down that route if that's where I go.

thierry14

ELM327 wrote: »

See my replies in red. (Can you spot the office/white collar :pac:)

I don't want a battery owned 22kWh Zoe. If I'm buying a battery owned one it's the ZE40

I'm leaning at the moment between the new leaf on PCP (- but that leaves me potentially exposed if there is no "equity" at the end of 2 years vs the GFMV with the new 60kWh coming), the Zoe option I mentioned initially, trying to find an Ioniq that works vis a vis the monthly payments, or something completely off the wall. (well priced 30kWh leaf).

This 30kWh looks good but still pricey, only has 3.3 charging. But it's SVE so has all the options I had in my original leaf.
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2016-nissan-leaf-sve-tekna-30kw/17528008

You might do a better deal on an e-Golf if your going pcp, they have good scrappage deals and lower interest rates

e-golf will probably depreciate less too

Try Nissan to see if they have any new 30kWh to shift maybe, they will give 5k scrappage i presume and might have old stock to shift

Worth ringing them all

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

The EU price is 3k for the upgrade.

The rental goes from 80 to 100 I think if you get the bigger battery, and keep the highest mile option.

Dealer doesnt take over the rental, I see that some private dealers have them for sale - I presume there's an optout to say the car is sold to a dealer. You're right, more research is needed down that route if that's where I go.

I could very well be wrong but I had it in my head that whoever owns the car (dealer or private individual) has to pay the battery rental. I didnt think you could absolve yourself of the rental by just trading it in.... someone has to continue to pay the rental.

If the dealer didnt have to pay the rental they could leave the car idle and let the battery go to s*it and RCI would end up out of pocket..... definitely read the fine print there.

Even if the dealer doesnt have to pay the rental, how are you going to convince them to buy a car that they will struggle to sell... you'll lose your jocks on the trade-in. It seems like a risky strategy to me.

unkel

Yeah the lease ones are impossible to sell on unless dirt cheap. That's why there are so many of them for sale for little money in the UK. I wouldn't touch one myself unless you are prepared to pay the battery lease until the cars is end of life. And even then you have to pay Renault to remove the battery and ship it to France :eek:

If you don't mind a white Ioniq, some come up from time to time. I linked to a 181 and a 171 in one of the other threads yesterday. They also come up in the UK, but you will need to be quick, they usually sell within hours. Some as low as £20k though, you would have relatively little depreciation on that over the next 2 years.

ELM327

I'm giving some thouight to an Ioniq alright.
But also to an e-Golf. They are 35k list after the grants etc and 600 p/m on PCP.

http://www1.volkswagen.ie/finance/

thierry14

ELM327 wrote: »

I'm giving some thouight to an Ioniq alright.
But also to an e-Golf. They are 35k list after the grants etc and 600 p/m on PCP.

http://www1.volkswagen.ie/finance/

How does that make financial sense though?

Golf trendline is 240pm and 0% finance

Your not going to make back 360pm on fuel

Hell you can get a Dacia Sandero for 45e a week with no deposit

Thats cheap reliable motoring

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

I'm giving some thouight to an Ioniq alright.
But also to an e-Golf. They are 35k list after the grants

If you can get the diesel scrappage (on a €50 banger you buy off donedeal), the eGolf is pretty good value in the low €30s

I know you can't use scrappage unless you've owned the car for 6 months, etc. according to the T&C, but the same applied to Hyundai and some dealers just didn't care. I'd start ringing a few dealers. And go drive an eGolf. It really is a good car.

ELM327

I have an 05 diesel xtrail that I will have for about 6 months shortly. So I reckon that would cover the scrappage.

Re Thierry's point above, it's not all about savings at the expense of comfort. It'll be a cold day in hell before I drive a bland fossil fuel econobox with probably windy windows and no AC like dacia

unkel

That will have very little value at this stage. Almost perfect for the scrappage deal, bringing the price of an eGolf down nearly to Ioniq / Leaf levels.

Go drive one. You have me convinced the eGolf will be your next car. Now you only need to convince yourself

ELM327

Hahha. I'm trying to find info online on the newer egolf (the 36kWh model) eg charge speeds on DC and the tapering etc.

Any VW dealer to recommend that I could go to for a 48 hour test drive? Do they all offer the e-Golf. Doesnt someone who posts regularly on here have an egolf?

unkel

Only Blackwater in Cork and Frank Keane in Dublin sell eGolfs

Shefwedfan

ELM327 wrote: »

Hahha. I'm trying to find info online on the newer egolf (the 36kWh model) eg charge speeds on DC and the tapering etc.

Any VW dealer to recommend that I could go to for a 48 hour test drive? Do they all offer the e-Golf. Doesnt someone who posts regularly on here have an egolf?

I might post regular. :P

Only Liffey Valley and Blackwater do them. You could try if Liffey Valley are getting any in. Last time I talked to them they only had a white one and this was bought by a lady

Blackwater have a Indium Grey coming in, same colour as mine which is nice. Has reverse camera, technology & light pack, active info, keyless entry and winter pack

Nice spec. All you would need. See below to look similar.

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/volkswagen-golf-e/18036417

I got him to throw in a set of tinted windows but I am not taking now. I was going to trade in an old van but they won't accept.

I think they offer 24 hour test drive, maybe 48 hour if over weekend. Liffey do have a white one available for test drive.

Shefwedfan

Really you need to take for test drive. They are beautiful to drive. The car-net app is good, I know a few people complain about it but it works perfect once you get used to it.

Facebook has a large group with loads of information, a lot of them sold in Ireland this year so far.

It is a pity VW have so few available. If ordering from new you could be waiting for 6 months. What VW Ireland do seem to be doing is grabbing any of the cars when they can, then if someone has a order in they are swapping for them. So the orders stay, that is why it might be worth checking with Liffey as well.

80sDiesel

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/e-golf/100966/long-term-test-review-volkswagen-e-golf