4x4 for towing two horses

Ah_Yeah

Hi folks

You were all massively helpful to me about a year ago when I was looking to buy a 4x4 for city driving and to tow one horse - I ended up going for a Hyundai ix35 as it had a 2T capacity and is economic to run as a day to day car.

I now, for my sins, have two horses and so I am going to have to upgrade/change the car and so with this in mind I am looking at vehicles that have 2.5T-3T towing capacity (the combined weight of the horses and the trailer is about 2-2.2T but I just know that my current car is not up to the job with a second horse); will be taxed privately; can be used to drive to the stables from the city (30-40mins each day).

I have ruled out a Landcruiser much as I would love one as I know from friends that they are just unbelievably expensive to run in terms of fuel (never mind the tax!). Currently looking at the following:

- Volkswagen Touareg
- Mercedes ML320
- BMW X5
- Volvo XC90

I had an older (2006) Kia Sorento and loved it until the engine went in it, it was burning oil but I didn't get a low oil notification. Would I be mad to go back to them again, maybe one of the newer models?

Budget is €10-12k ideally - I'd be trading in my own and putting a few quid on top. I know that this means I'll potentially have to get a 10 year old car but I don't really want to get a car on finance at this point in time as it's a short term purchase for about 6-12 months until I sell the second horse.

I'd appreciate any input on the above cars or if there's any I've missed in terms of towing and day to day economy. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong cars completely.

Notch000

might be worth looking at a Pajero also, there a nice drive and will two your load wiht ease.

Ah_Yeah

Notch000 wrote: »

might be worth looking at a Pajero also, there a nice drive and will two your load wiht ease.

Thank you. Great shout!

punisher5112

Definitely pajero for that work.

Likes of discovery or land cruiser either.

Ah_Yeah

punisher5112 wrote: »

Definitely pajero for that work.

Likes of discovery or land cruiser either.

Thank you. The private tax is a killer though - not to mention the diesel living in the city!

I'd sacrifice the running cost on diesel if I could tax it commercially!

Del2005

Ah_Yeah wrote: »

Thank you. The private tax is a killer though - not to mention the diesel living in the city!

I'd sacrifice the running cost on diesel if I could tax it commercially!

Your never going to get a vehicle with a high tow rating that is easy on juice, to be able to tow they have to be big. If you are only going to have the car for a few months why not buy one already taxed?

Mycroft H

I wouldn't bother with a Pajero. They were old tech ten years ago and the new ones haven't changed either plus they're as thirsty as the Landcruiser. Pajero has a big 3.2l 4cyl lump, not the most economical or refined.

MPG will be awful towing anyway but I take it the jeep wont be towing the entire time?

Could pick up a 2010-2012 Kia Sorento for that money. 2500kg towing capacity. Should be enough. Practically the same power as the Pajero except cheaper to tax and run.

Ah_Yeah

Del2005 wrote: »

Your never going to get a vehicle with a high tow rating that is easy on juice, to be able to tow they have to be big. If you are only going to have the car for a few months why not buy one already taxed?

Yep I don't even really mind the diesel costs but the tax is a killer. It could be for up to a year so I'd be surprised if I found a car taxed for that period of time! But it's a good idea!

Mycroft H wrote: »

I wouldn't bother with a Pajero. They were old tech ten years ago and the new ones haven't changed either plus they're as thirsty as the Landcruiser. Pajero has a big 3.2l 4cyl lump, not the most economical or refined.

MPG will be awful towing anyway but I take it the jeep wont be towing the entire time?

Could pick up a 2010-2012 Kia Sorento for that money. 2500kg towing capacity. Should be enough. Practically the same power as the Pajero except cheaper to tax and run.

Yeah the Kia I had before was amazing, do you know what the newer ones are like? I was put off them a bit when the engine went in my 2006 one with just 100k miles on the clock but was so devastated when it broke down as I loved it.

Del2005

Ah_Yeah wrote: »

Yep I don't even really mind the diesel costs but the tax is a killer. It could be for up to a year so I'd be surprised if I found a car taxed for that period of time! But it's a good idea!

Then look for one with the tax nearly out and get the current owner to tax it.

Ah_Yeah

Ah_Yeah wrote: »

Thank you. The private tax is a killer though - not to mention the diesel living in the city!

I'd sacrifice the running cost on diesel if I could tax it commercially!

If you are afraid you can't tax a commercial buy one out of tax and get the seller to tax it for a year so at the very least you don't need to worry about it for 12 months. Just give the seller the price of the commercial tax for the year on top of the selling price and they should have no issue.

JohnBoy26

All of the larger jeeps will be expensive to run so I wouldn't rule out a landcruiser, especially when you are open to the idea of a pajaro which is more expensive to run, less refined and is also less powerful in real world conditions despite having the larger engine on paper. Mitsubishi's also tend to be a bit soft.

Tbh the landcruiser is the best of the lot if you want a reliable well built jeep that's easy to live with.

Ah_Yeah

Kailee Mammoth Joyrider wrote: »

If you are afraid you can't tax a commercial buy one out of tax and get the seller to tax it for a year so at the very least you don't need to worry about it for 12 months. Just give the seller the price of the commercial tax for the year on top of the selling price and they should have no issue.

Good shout! Never thought of that. I'm looking into the feasibility of commercial tax as I do file a self employed tax return at the end of every year but also pay tax through PAYE (I run a consultancy but work full time) so need to see how that works.

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

All of the larger jeeps will be expensive to run so I wouldn't rule out a landcruiser, especially when you are open to the idea of a pajaro which is more expensive to run, less refined and is also less powerful in real world conditions despite having the larger engine on paper. Mitsubishi's also tend to be a bit soft.

Tbh the landcruiser is the best of the lot if you want a reliable well built jeep that's easy to live with.

Yep I am sorely tempted by an 06/07 Landcruiser SWB - budget wouldnt stretch to any newer but they seem to stand the test of time!

Ah_Yeah

Ah_Yeah wrote: »

Good shout! Never thought of that. I'm looking into the feasibility of commercial tax as I do file a self employed tax return at the end of every year but also pay tax through PAYE (I run a consultancy but work full time) so need to see how that works.

You should have no issue, the vast majority of people I know with commercial tax have PAYE as their main job (with something else self employed on the side though thats generally farming which does make it easier) or are purely PAYE and have no self employed work at all or any worked related reason for having a commercial. Not all tax offices are as strict as others on taxing commecials either, I think its Meath that's famous for being a complete pain in the arse but haven't heard any others being crazily strict. Probably up to who ever you get on the day.

JohnBoy26

Kailee Mammoth Joyrider wrote: »

You should have no issue, the vast majority of people I know with commercial tax have PAYE as their main job (with something else self employed on the side though thats generally farming which does make it easier) or are purely PAYE and have no self employed work at all or any worked related reason for having a commercial. Not all tax offices are as strict as others on taxing commecials either, I think its Meath that's famous for being a complete pain in the arse but haven't heard any others being crazily strict. Probably up to who ever you get on the day.

I think they all are at this stage.

JohnBoy26

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

I think they all are at this stage.

I think the goods only decleration is enough to appease some of them anyway and thats easily enough to get, Guards will sign it no questions asked.

howyegettinon1

x5's arent great, company had about 5 of them - at any given time at least one was in the shop getting fixed

Del2005

Kailee Mammoth Joyrider wrote: »

I think the goods only decleration is enough to appease some of them anyway and thats easily enough to get, Guards will sign it no questions asked.

The Guards are only witnessing your signature on a statutory declaration that you will only use the vehicle for commercial use. It's the council that decides what tax you get, which is why they are now looking for more proof for commercial tax.

Gorgeousgeorge

Land cruiser.

AMKC

A Hyundai Sante Fe or a Kia Sorento are the best bets.

Gawddawggonnit

Ah_Yeah wrote: »

Hi folks

You were all massively helpful to me about a year ago when I was looking to buy a 4x4 for city driving and to tow one horse - I ended up going for a Hyundai ix35 as it had a 2T capacity and is economic to run as a day to day car.

I now, for my sins, have two horses and so I am going to have to upgrade/change the car and so with this in mind I am looking at vehicles that have 2.5T-3T towing capacity (the combined weight of the horses and the trailer is about 2-2.2T but I just know that my current car is not up to the job with a second horse); will be taxed privately; can be used to drive to the stables from the city (30-40mins each day).

I have ruled out a Landcruiser much as I would love one as I know from friends that they are just unbelievably expensive to run in terms of fuel (never mind the tax!). Currently looking at the following:

- Volkswagen Touareg
- Mercedes ML320
- BMW X5
- Volvo XC90

I had an older (2006) Kia Sorento and loved it until the engine went in it, it was burning oil but I didn't get a low oil notification. Would I be mad to go back to them again, maybe one of the newer models?

Budget is €10-12k ideally - I'd be trading in my own and putting a few quid on top. I know that this means I'll potentially have to get a 10 year old car but I don't really want to get a car on finance at this point in time as it's a short term purchase for about 6-12 months until I sell the second horse.

I'd appreciate any input on the above cars or if there's any I've missed in terms of towing and day to day economy. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong cars completely.

I run an X5 and a 245hp Touareg for towing. Touareg is better for towing but is an alcoholic on diesel. X5 is a much nicer car and a little easier on diesel when towing.
Touareg feels quite ‘planted’ on the motorway and tows two horses at 80mph comfortably. X5 is a tiny bit giddy.

ba_barabus

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

tows two horses at 80mph comfortably.

As someone who has plenty of experience of towing horses I genuinely hope you're talking shyte to impress the imbeciles online.

Gawddawggonnit

ba_barabus wrote: »

As someone who has plenty of experience of towing horses I genuinely hope you're talking shyte to impress the imbeciles online.

Wtf??
I’d suggest that I’ve been towing horses since before you were born.

I started towing horses with a single box and a Ford Anglia...

I live in France.

coolbeans

Ah_Yeah wrote: »

Hi folks

You were all massively helpful to me about a year ago when I was looking to buy a 4x4 for city driving and to tow one horse - I ended up going for a Hyundai ix35 as it had a 2T capacity and is economic to run as a day to day car.

I now, for my sins, have two horses and so I am going to have to upgrade/change the car and so with this in mind I am looking at vehicles that have 2.5T-3T towing capacity (the combined weight of the horses and the trailer is about 2-2.2T but I just know that my current car is not up to the job with a second horse); will be taxed privately; can be used to drive to the stables from the city (30-40mins each day).

I have ruled out a Landcruiser much as I would love one as I know from friends that they are just unbelievably expensive to run in terms of fuel (never mind the tax!). Currently looking at the following:

- Volkswagen Touareg
- Mercedes ML320
- BMW X5
- Volvo XC90

I had an older (2006) Kia Sorento and loved it until the engine went in it, it was burning oil but I didn't get a low oil notification. Would I be mad to go back to them again, maybe one of the newer models?

Budget is €10-12k ideally - I'd be trading in my own and putting a few quid on top. I know that this means I'll potentially have to get a 10 year old car but I don't really want to get a car on finance at this point in time as it's a short term purchase for about 6-12 months until I sell the second horse.

I'd appreciate any input on the above cars or if there's any I've missed in terms of towing and day to day economy. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong cars completely.

OP, you are absolutely kidding yourself if you think any of those options will be cheaper to run than a Landcruiser. Out of all of them the 'cruiser is still your best bet in terms of running costs. Look at a Hilux too.

Gorgeousgeorge

AMKC wrote: »

A Hyundai Sante Fe or a Kia Sorento are the best bets.

they are the worst bets when the flywheels fall out of them after a small bit of work

punisher5112

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Wtf??
I’d suggest that I’ve been towing horses since before you were born.

I started towing horses with a single box and a Ford Anglia...

I live in France.

They are talking about you pulling a trailer and doing 80mph.

That's just a serious collision or deaths waiting to happen.

Trailer max speed is 80km/h so maybe it was a mix up....

Gawddawggonnit

punisher5112 wrote: »

They are talking about you pulling a trailer and doing 80mph.

That's just a serious collision or deaths waiting to happen.

Trailer max speed is 80km/h so maybe it was a mix up....

I’m aware of the limits...
I also hold an artic permit.

I regularly travel between Deauville and Pau, if I respected the limits I’d be an extra two days making the trip.
With the Touareg it sits comfortably at 130kph. The X5 is steady at 120kph.

howyegettinon1

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

I’m aware of the limits...
I also hold an artic permit.

I regularly travel between Deauville and Pau, if I respected the limits I’d be an extra two days making the trip.
With the Touareg it sits comfortably at 130kph. The X5 is steady at 120kph.

10.5 hours @80kmh vs 6.5 hours @130khm

AMKC

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

I’m aware of the limits...
I also hold an artic permit.

I regularly travel between Deauville and Pau, if I respected the limits I’d be an extra two days making the trip.
With the Touareg it sits comfortably at 130kph. The X5 is steady at 120kph.

It's not the cars you are using that is the problem. It's what you have on behind your cars and what is in them. Do you know what the tyres on your horseboxes rated top speed is?

howyegettinon1

AMKC wrote: »

It's not the cars you are using that is the problem. It's what you have on behind your cars and what is in them. Do you know what the tyres on your horseboxes rated top speed is?

I agree with this lad, ....heavy things going fast never end well

punisher5112

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

I’m aware of the limits...
I also hold an artic permit.

I regularly travel between Deauville and Pau, if I respected the limits I’d be an extra two days making the trip.
With the Touareg it sits comfortably at 130kph. The X5 is steady at 120kph.

Very silly answer to be honest.

These limits are there for a reason.

Look I drive many types of vehicles large and small and towing a trailer interrupts the normal operation of the towing vehicles.

It is a dangerous practice to be doing 80mph towing any type of a trailer.

ba_barabus

I'm glad I'm not the only one who picked up on tgat ridiculous comment.

It's a fairly common sight nowadays, I regularly have to go well in excess of 120kmh to get past jeeps pulling trailers on the motorway. A few weeks ago a discovery pulling a sizeable boat was doing a little over 120kmh and overtaking most cars. I was behind him briefly and was just about matching his speed at 120. I dropped gears and got past him as fast as I could then.

fits

It’s all grand until the trailer flips over. Have heard of it happening many times. Limit is 80 for a reason.

fits

I sold a grand 06 sorento for nothing (1300) over a year ago. It had New all terrain tyres on it and all. And tax for almost a year. But I needed to get a family car so wasn’t worth keeping. Might be worth looking for something like that. Well looked after. And then just scrap when you sell the other horse.

Ah_Yeah

Ah_Yeah wrote: »

..............I ended up going for a Hyundai ix35 as it had a 2T capacity and is economic to run as a day to day car. .................

I have ruled out a Landcruiser much as I would love one as I know from friends that they are just unbelievably expensive to run in terms of fuel (never mind the tax!). Currently looking at the following:

- Volkswagen Touareg
- Mercedes ML320
- BMW X5
- Volvo XC90

......................

Budget is €10-12k ideally - I'd be trading in my own and putting a few quid on top. I know that this means I'll potentially have to get a 10 year old car but I don't really want to get a car on finance at this point in time as it's a short term purchase for about 6-12 months until I sell the second horse..............

I doubt any of the 4 you mention will be much cheaper to fuel than a Landcruiser.

Trading your own and intending to keep whatever you get for just 6-12 months is a recipe for losing a right few thousand IMO...........I'd spend as little as possible ...

Something like a nissan patrol or a Jeep Grand cherokee.

Patrols are unreal slow but tough as anything.

The Jeep Grand cherokee diesel from 2005 to 2010 has the same engine as the Mercedes ML 320 you mention but the Jeeps are significantly cheaper but not many for sale as they weren't popular.

They'd both tow plenty more than what you need to but are rare enough admittedly.

Bit of a speel about this one but might well be genuine as they are offering option to sell on Irish plates......

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2004-black-nissan-patrol-diesel-auto-luxury/18037382

howyegettinon1

If i read your post right you drive out to the horses each day? Tow them how often?
Why dont you buy a second jeep for towing only, go for something cheaper like in post above?
Cost you less in diesel up and down in what you have now that using a guzler to travel each day?

Ah_Yeah

Thanks so much everyone. Very sound advice.

I'm going to look at the Landcruiser as a longer term option and potentially hang onto it even when I sell the second horse as they are pretty reliable and built to last. Safety of my animals is number one priority so I want to get something that's built for the job.

Ah_Yeah

Hi folks, me again

I’ve been doing a lot of research into this. Had arrived at a landcruiser, pajero or similar based on towing capacity and the fact they are built to last, but I’ve run into various roadblocks around insurance and tax. Even if I were able to jump through the hoops required to tax the car commercially, I now face the issue in that I face losing my 9 years of no claims bonus built up on a private policy by switching to a commercial policy. I found a few insurers who will allow me transfer the private NCB but I can’t find anyone who will do this on a vehicle over 2T towing capacity.

So I really am back to the drawing board on this one and need to look at private vehicles again! I draw the line at 1,200 for the annual tax as I had a Sorento that was 1,080 before and that’s about all I could stomach. With this in mind I am looking at:

- VW Touareg
- BMW X5 (I’m not sure how or why but some are 1200 to tax and others 1494)
- Sorento again (is this madness given the issues I had with the last one?!)

I can’t think of any others and I have combed DoneDeal and Carzone. There are some lovely pickups and crewcabs such as the Hilux and L200 but I have a challenge living in town and having to parallel park on narrow roads and tight spaces so size of vehicle is a real consideration.

I am ok with running costs regarding diesel and was really set on investing in a Landcruiser, I’m just really struggling to find a way to run one that doesn’t involve private tax at 1494 a year which I couldn’t justify for towing once a week.

Have also considered having a second car but parking is at a premium where we live so that’s just not really an option.

I’ve heard very mixed reviews about the Touareg, nothing either way about the X5, and I’m so on the fence about whether or not I sell my car and just buy a cheap Sorento and drive it until it dies!

Total weight being towed is about 2.2T so I just need the 2.5T and the decent engine size to give me the guts I need to get up the hills in our area. I looked at the Q5 and Tiguan and the 2L engine worried me.

If you need to tow 2.2 tonnes you need to pay the top tax if going private.

DMFs on 2.2 diesels won't take much abuse.

If you must stick to the 1200 tax at least buy an automatic. If there isn't one rated to pull 2.5 tonnes you need to go and rethink the motor tax budget Imo

Ah_Yeah

Augeo wrote: »

If you need to tow 2.2 tonnes you need to pay the top tax if going private.

DMFs on 2.2 diesels won't take much abuse.

If you must stick to the 1200 tax at least buy an automatic. If there isn't one rated to pull 2.5 tonnes you need to go and rethink the motor tax budget Imo

I totally agree and I’m definitely considering the need to go into the top tax bracket, safety and not burning the clutch or doing damage to an engine are priority for me for sure. Before I did this I wanted to look at the ones I could afford to tax that are rated to tow over 2.2T with room to spare.

The X5 at 1200 tax is rated to tow 3-3.5T
The Touareg 2.5 at 1080 tax is rated to tow 3-3.5T
The Sorento at 1080 tax is rated to tow 2.5-3T depending on which model.

It sounds strange you can't transfer your ncb. From my experience ncb is interchangeable between commercials and private cars and I know plenty of people driving commercial landcruiser etc who got their insurance on it using a car ncb so again no issue with the towing capacity limits you mention.

Ah_Yeah

Kailee Mammoth Joyrider wrote: »

It sounds strange you can't transfer your ncb. From my experience ncb is interchangeable between commercials and private cars and I know plenty of people driving commercial landcruiser etc who got their insurance on it using a car ncb so again no issue with the towing capacity limits you mention.

Maybe it is the places I have called. Brokers tend to be tricky to get a quote with and so I've had to ring everyone individually!

Ah_Yeah

Ah_Yeah wrote: »

Maybe it is the places I have called. Brokers tend to be tricky to get a quote with and so I've had to ring everyone individually!

Have you tried insuremyvan.ie? They even mirror NCBs (for some people anyway) which very few insurers do in Ireland.

Ah_Yeah

Kailee Mammoth Joyrider wrote: »

Have you tried insuremyvan.ie? They even mirror NCBs (for some people anyway) which very few insurers do in Ireland.

Yes, they were actually quite rude to me and didn't want to entertain me unless I was actually buying a policy, I said I was looking for a quote before purchasing the vehicle. I'll try them again.