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Catholics fighting over our families

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    #2
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,248 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Who honestly cares about catholics? There's only like 15 of them left.


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    #3
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,982 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    endacl wrote: »
    Who honestly cares about catholics? There's only like 15 of them left.

    Come back in August then you'll see

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #4
    lottpaul
    Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭lottpaul


    Thanks for the post Joey. Some of the links are sadly predictable and some are downright nasty.
    Predictable part first:
    -- organising group prints booklets with some photos depicting families that might be interpreted as "different" in some way
    -- some events are organised which seek to include "alternative" families (not my choice of words) and in fairness the situation on the ground is often very different to official church teaching - it's patchy though
    -- small group of traditional/faithful/conservative/altright (take your pick) lay Catholics wakes up and smells heresy and deviance - they mobilise their wealthy and influential friends and with a few swift blows of a financial crozier the main group is cowed back into following the official teaching -- and beyond.
    -- they then seek out the heretics and expose their evil plots - and this is where it seems to have gotten very nasty
    -- "The scandalous image of two lesbians embracing was rightly removed from World Meeting of Families catechetical material. The image should never have been there in the first place and serves as a warning that LGBT activists have entered deep within the structures of the Catholic Church in Ireland,"
    -- the mask of concern finally slips with a nasty swing at the Kerry diocesan youth services for supporting an anti LGBT bullying campaign "These campaigns and these LGBT groups are used to imply that young people who ‘come out’ as ‘LGBT’ are heroes. They are encouraging young people to publicly identify themselves as LGBT so as to groom them for sexual relationships with adults of the same-sex in later life."

    It's easy to dismiss the RCC as being a rump of the elderly faithful with a sprinkling of fanatical younger members, but we have to remember that it still controls the vast majority of primary schools and a considerable number of secondary schools in this country.
    Many clergy on the ground - especially the older ones -- are more experienced in life and realise that there are far more important issues than who someone falls in love with. The younger ones are not always as wise I think.


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    #5
    feardeas
    Registered Users Posts: 307 ✭✭feardeas


    lottpaul wrote: »
    Thanks for the post Joey. Some of the links are sadly predictable and some are downright nasty.
    Predictable part first:
    -- organising group prints booklets with some photos depicting families that might be interpreted as "different" in some way
    -- some events are organised which seek to include "alternative" families (not my choice of words) and in fairness the situation on the ground is often very different to official church teaching - it's patchy though
    -- small group of traditional/faithful/conservative/altright (take your pick) lay Catholics wakes up and smells heresy and deviance - they mobilise their wealthy and influential friends and with a few swift blows of a financial crozier the main group is cowed back into following the official teaching -- and beyond.
    -- they then seek out the heretics and expose their evil plots - and this is where it seems to have gotten very nasty
    -- "The scandalous image of two lesbians embracing was rightly removed from World Meeting of Families catechetical material. The image should never have been there in the first place and serves as a warning that LGBT activists have entered deep within the structures of the Catholic Church in Ireland,"
    -- the mask of concern finally slips with a nasty swing at the Kerry diocesan youth services for supporting an anti LGBT bullying campaign "These campaigns and these LGBT groups are used to imply that young people who ‘come out’ as ‘LGBT’ are heroes. They are encouraging young people to publicly identify themselves as LGBT so as to groom them for sexual relationships with adults of the same-sex in later life."

    It's easy to dismiss the RCC as being a rump of the elderly faithful with a sprinkling of fanatical younger members, but we have to remember that it still controls the vast majority of primary schools and a considerable number of secondary schools in this country.
    Many clergy on the ground - especially the older ones -- are more experienced in life and realise that there are far more important issues than who someone falls in love with. The younger ones are not always as wise I think.


    The younger ones are not as wise at all if that is what we want to call it. I think many of them are acually lacking in empathy and entered the priesthood in a sense to escape from life and reality, in many instances their own reality. They cloak themselves in lace and insence and old fashioned priestly clothes. It is laughable really.


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    #6
    jaxxx
    Registered Users Posts: 3,230 ✭✭✭jaxxx


    Catholicism is just fighting against its own extinction, a long overdue extinction at that. And I say that as someone who was reared as a Catholic.


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    #7
    JupiterKid
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,631 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    Let them fight and tear themselves apart from within. The Vatican is utterly immoral and corrupt and my father who was a man of strong religious faith but free thought and tolerance was of this opinion. They showed huge disrespect to former President Mary McAleese.


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    #8
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    There is a bit of a fight going on within the Catholic Church and its upcoming World Meeting of Families in August.


    The in-fighting in the Catholic Church has been going on a lot longer than just recent times and some extremist element that nobody has ever heard of in Ireland. It's a global conflict rather than just what's happening in Ireland, and you kind of hit the nail on the head by observing that it's a conflict between liberal and conservative Catholicism. I think setting the argument up as Catholicism vs the LGBT community ignores the fact that the two communities were never mutually exclusive, and the conflict has always been more about liberal vs conservative values with regard to the position of the Catholic Church within society. There's a good commentary on the conflict here for anyone interested in reading, it's about a 20 minute read, but worth it IMO -


    A Crisis of Conservative Catholicism


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    #9
    368100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭368100


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    Let them fight and tear themselves apart from within. The Vatican is utterly immoral and corrupt and my father who was a man of strong religious faith but free thought and tolerance was of this opinion. They showed huge disrespect to former President Mary McAleese.

    Forgive my ignorance, but how did they disrespect her?


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    #10
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,982 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/mary-mcaleese-barred-by-vatican-from-conference-on-women-1.3377099?mode=amp

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #11
    lottpaul
    Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭lottpaul


    feardeas wrote: »
    The younger ones are not as wise at all if that is what we want to call it. I think many of them are acually lacking in empathy and entered the priesthood in a sense to escape from life and reality, in many instances their own reality. They cloak themselves in lace and insence and old fashioned priestly clothes. It is laughable really.

    Spot on -- and I think Diarmuid Martin, Archbishop of Dublin, was implying the same when he said many of those who present themselves today for the seminaries were “fragile and some much more traditional than those who went before them.”

    I would only know of a handful of priests under 40 and a majority of those are very traditional, preferring to devote their energies to Latin Masses, eucharistic adorations etc - which I've no doubt makes them popular with a devoted few but means they have less contact with those in the general population who identify as RC and who have very varied family circumstances all around them -- single parents, separated/divorced couples, remarried couples, married gay couples, unmarried couples (with and without children) etc - and who don't judge those circumstances, just accept them for what they are - fellow human beings deserving of love and support.


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