RTB Determination Order Enforcement

musafir.aa

Hi Everyone

Looking for some advice/insights regarding enforcing the RTB determination order.

Wondering if folks with some experience with this can shed some light into how long it's going to take, how much is it going to cost and what's involved in the process?

For some background, RTB determination order has been issued in my favor, dispute was lodged by the tenant claiming my Lease termination was invalid which it wasn't as I had provided a singed statuary declaration stating that me and my family needs to move back into the property. Tenant was had a long list of outlandish claims that were seen through the adjudication and dismissed.

The determination order that came through clearly upholds my notice, instructing tenant to leave the property on the expiry of the notice, also due the length of the tenancy notice period 12 weeks. Also, since the notice was issued tenant has not paid rent either so he is in two-month arrears. Period of 10 days for appeal has also expired.

My main concern right now is to get him out of the property as the notice period expires next week and I am wondering what are my options?

From what I understand RTB enforcement proceeding seems to take a very long time (which I cannot afford due to needing the accommodation for family).

Going down the route of courts also does not seem any better and do not really know any solicitor etc. who I would trust to pursue this without fleecing me in the process any am really under pressure to sort out the accommodation situation for my family

I am even considering changing the locks after the notice period expires, can anyone advice what are the reifications of doing this if any as I have the determination order in my favor?

The_Conductor

musafir.aa - don't change the locks under any circumstance.
The tenant will immediately put in a claim against you- and the legislation is setup to protect them- not you.
The fact that you require the property for personal use- is the legal basis on which you are seeking the termination of the tenancy- and thankfully you have done everything by the book thus far.

Wholly aside from the outlandish claims from the tenant thus far- they are now two months in rent arrears. Have you served them with a notice of rent arrears.

I would serve a formal notice of rent arrears- and lodge a fresh claim with the RTB relating to the rent arrears- and seek their assistance in enforcing their determination.

Unfortunately- it can take a protracted period of time to persuade a tenant to leave- even when its your only property that you plainly need for your own family- and you are enduring hardship because of the actions of the tenant. If the tenant decides to dig their heels in- formally it could take over a year to remove them- unless you take the new approach and get the media involved etc- though be aware, as a landlord- you will be vilified in the media regardless of what you did or did not do.

The situation you're outlining- is textbook advice that Threshold give to anyone who rings them- and despite the tenant being obviously in the wrong (by not continuing to pay rent, aside from anything else)- the law is there to protect them- not you.

Pawwed Rig

I have had a determination order for over 5 years now and an enforcement order for over a year and still have not seen a penny.
It is solicitor time unfortunately OP.

4ensic15

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I have had a determination order for over 5 years now and an enforcement order for over a year and still have not seen a penny.
It is solicitor time unfortunately OP.

If your determination order was made 5 years ago your solicitor is incompetent. 5 years ago it was a criminal offence not to comply with a determination order so you should have brought charges straight away.

As for changing the locks, the position is not entirely clear. The tenant cannot complain to the RTB, since they are no longer a tenant. The tenant have to seek an injunction. Whether a tenant can get an injunction in the circumstances is questionable since they are in breach of a determination order. The tenant would also be most unlikely to secure the services of any solicitor without paying substantial sums of money up front.

Pawwed Rig

4ensic15 wrote: »

If your determination order was made 5 years ago your solicitor is incompetent. 5 years ago it was a criminal offence not to comply with a determination order so you should have brought charges straight away.

RTB all the way. A determination order (I was told) is just an opinion. To force the issue we got an enforcement order (RTB did the enforcement too).
Agree re level of competence

Where tenant has no assets there is not much to enforce.

4ensic15

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

RTB all the way. A determination order (I was told) is just an opinion. .

It is not just an opinion. It was, at that time, a criminal offence not to comply. Charges can be brought in the District Court. Tenants have been convicted of the offence whilst others have paid up to avoid having a conviction and being barred from America etc.

Pawwed Rig

4ensic15 wrote: »

It is not just an opinion. It was, at that time, a criminal offence not to comply. Charges can be brought in the District Court. Tenants have been convicted of the offence whilst others have paid up to avoid having a conviction and being barred from America etc.

A conviction, at worst, would consist of an afternoon in custody. What is there to be afraid of?
Barred from America?? Most people have no interest in going to America.

The advice I got was that a RTB decision is only enforceable through the district court. The district court then gave the enforcement order. The enforcement order still has not been executed but when it will be the sheriff will arrive at the premises hum and haw and leave with nothing on the basis that they cannot ascertain whose property belongs to the landlord or my former tenant.

4ensic15

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

A conviction, at worst, would consist of an afternoon in custody. What is there to be afraid of?
Barred from America?? Most people have no interest in going to America.

The advice I got was that a RTB decision is only enforceable through the district court. The district court then gave the enforcement order. The enforcement order still has not been executed but when it will be the sheriff will arrive at the premises hum and haw and leave with nothing on the basis that they cannot ascertain whose property belongs to the landlord or my former tenant.

The enforcement order was enforced in the Circuit Court, not the District Court. Many people don't want a conviction for a variety of reasons, such as employability etc.
As for the sheriff, you can, in the alternative, get an instalment order against the tenant.
You have not been well adviseed.

GGTrek

musafir.aa wrote: »

Hi Everyone

Looking for some advice/insights regarding enforcing the RTB determination order.  

Wondering if folks with some experience with this can shed some light into how long it's going to take, how much is it going to cost and what's involved in the process?

For some background, RTB determination order has been issued in my favor, dispute was lodged by the tenant claiming my Lease termination was invalid which it wasn't as I had provided a singed statuary declaration stating that me and my family needs to move back into the property. Tenant was had a long list of outlandish claims that were seen through the adjudication and dismissed.

The determination order that came through clearly upholds my notice, instructing tenant to leave the property on the expiry of the notice, also due the length of the tenancy notice period 12 weeks. Also, since the notice was issued tenant has not paid rent either so he is in two-month arrears. Period of 10 days for appeal has also expired.

My main concern right now is to get him out of the property as the notice period expires next week and I am wondering what are my options?

From what I understand RTB enforcement proceeding seems to take a very long time (which I cannot afford due to needing the accommodation for family).

Going down the route of courts also does not seem any better and do not really know any solicitor etc. who I would trust to pursue this without fleecing me in the process any am really under pressure to sort out the accommodation situation for my family

I am even considering changing the locks after the notice period expires, can anyone advice what are the reifications of doing this if any as I have the determination order in my favor?

OP, if the tenant is working (i.e. employed, not social welfare dependent) then forget about the RTB enforcement (it will add a good 5-6 months to the normal enforcement process). Enforcement of RTB orders at the Circuit Court can be done as litigant in person (you will save a good 1.5-2k in Barrister and Solicitor fees) and request an order for your costs against the tenant:
https://www.rtb.ie/docs/default-source/de---dispute-enforcement/circuitcourtenforcement-2016.pdf?sfvrsn=2
I am afraid you will have to go back to the RTB to ask for a determination order also for the unpaid rent (no need to issue any late rent warnings to tenant, since you already have a determination order to vacate) and then enforce it again at a Circuit Court (you should have added this rquest to your original dispute petition). An employed tenant will be made to pay by the judge at the Circuit Court.
Please be careful that you can only start Circuit Court proceedings once the date to vacate the dwelling has expired and the tenant has not moved out.
If the tenant is on social welfare, then PM me, there is a cost/benefit/risk analysis to be considered.

GGTrek

Forgot to say: check your landlord insurance, if you have a good insurance they will pay for solicitor and barrister to enforce the determination order at Circuit Court (clearly they will discount a few hundred euros of excess that you can ask as a cost to the judge)

Pawwed Rig

4ensic15 wrote: »

you can, in the alternative, get an instalment order against the tenant.
You have not been well adviseed.

Had one of those. Never a penny paid

musafir.aa

Thanks folks,  really appreciate everyone's input. 

at this stage I am in the circumstance where I am wondering if it is worth taking whatever legal consequences might come from kicking him out myself, because I certainly can not afford not to have the property back within next few weeks let alone months or years. 

I have already served first notice for rent arrears it has had not impact, at this stage I don't even know if the tenant is employed or not. I know he is not on social welfare as I never singed any sort of forms for him as landlord (my first time renting a property and probably last). 
 
And even if I want to go to media I would not even know where to begin. 

Also on what grounds would RTB pursue his complaint as they have already determined that he is to leave the property at the end of the notice?

Claw Hammer

musafir.aa wrote: »

Thanks folks,  really appreciate everyone's input. 

at this stage I am in the circumstance where I am wondering if it is worth taking whatever legal consequences might come from kicking him out myself, because I certainly can not afford not to have the property back within next few weeks let alone months or years. 

I have already served first notice for rent arrears it has had not impact, at this stage I don't even know if the tenant is employed or not. I know he is not on social welfare as I never singed any sort of forms for him as landlord (my first time renting a property and probably last). 
 
And even if I want to go to media I would not even know where to begin. 

Also on what grounds would RTB pursue his complaint as they have already determined that he is to leave the property at the end of the notice?

Nobody can advise you on this forum as to what to do. You have to make up your own mind. The reality appears to be that if you got in without causing damage and changed the locks when the tenant was out you would be able to argue that on the expiry of the determination order there was no tenancy and the RTA no longer applies as there is no rent in dispute and no rent being paid. That may or may not be enough to stop an injunction application by or on behalf of the tenant. A lot would depend on whether the tenant lawyers up or the RTB is prepared to assist the tenant.

godtabh

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Nobody can advise you on this forum as to what to do. You have to make up your own mind. The reality appears to be that if you got in without causing damage and changed the locks when the tenant was out you would be able to argue that on the expiry of the determination order there was no tenancy and the RTA no longer applies as there is no rent in dispute and no rent being paid. That may or may not be enough to stop an injunction application by or on behalf of the tenant. A lot would depend on whether the tenant lawyers up or the RTB is prepared to assist the tenant.

You could argue but I wouldn’t fancy your chances/outcome.

OP, Get proper legal advice rather than listen to opinions on here

Graham

Mod Note:

a friendly reminder to check the forum charter. Seeking or giving advice around illegal evictions is a no-no.