New Toyota 2.0 Hybrid system

scooby77

Toyota have announced a new 2.0 litre hybrid. It appears the 2019 Auris ( to be launched in Geneva) will be first to be supplied with it.
Some technical info here: https://newsroom.toyota.co.jp/en/powertrain2018/ths2/
Not an employee or particular fan boy, but in a different thread 3 months ago I posted that my next car (in a few years) would ideally be:
"... Toyota/ lexus, maybe Honda, will have reasonably priced hybrid (or regular petrol auto) which:
Does sub 8 seconds 0-60 (sub 7 be better :-)
Does 60+ mpg (in real world!)
Handles well."
This might be a step closer.
BTW here''s info on new Auris launch: https://www.motor1.com/news/234121/2019-toyota-auris-teased/
Any opinions?

Toyota simply can't admit that EV is the future or at least Big battery EV with generator solely as backup. This is they way they should have gone a number of years ago and the route Nissan should have taken in the beginning.

From the pioneers of hybrid tech I have to say that it's rather sad that This is the best Toyota can come up with since 1998 !

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

From the pioneers of hybrid tech

Well, not quite. Porsche was pioneering hybrid tech 100 years before Toyota. Japanese companies have never really invented anything automobile. Almost everything new came from Europe.

Agree with the rest of your post though

zilog_jones

unkel wrote: »

Well, not quite. Porsche was pioneering hybrid tech 100 years before Toyota. Japanese companies have never really invented anything automobile. Almost everything new came from Europe.

Ah that's being a bit reductive. Cars were still an expensive novelty in the 1890s - the manufacturers barely knew what they were doing back then. The Prius was the first mass production series-parallel hybrid, and many patents went into the technology used.

Deleted User wrote:

Toyota simply can't admit that EV is the future or at least Big battery EV with generator solely as backup.

They have admitted this. They are working on EVs, in a joint venture with Mazda and Denso. They want to make mass market vehicles, and deemed the limited range of things like the 1st gen Leaf not good enough.

I'm not going to defend them for the Mirai though - I'd also consider that an "expensive novelty"

Shefwedfan

So a friend has the Prius+ and Rav4 hybrid. He says the 1.8 hybrid is something your granny would drive. No power, especially in the Prius+

He only has the Rav4 2.5 for 2 months but it is hard on juice, hoping this is just as engine is breaking in but up at 12 MPG at the moment, still only done 3k km so far.

He was in my car at weekend and I think he realizes he should have gone full electric but would never say so. He has 3 year contract but loved the look of the ID Crozz so he would swap to something like that in 3 years

I do admire Toyota at least putting the full range onto Hybrid.

zilog_jones

I haven't driven a Prius+ myself, but it's not exactly lacking in power compared to the competition. My Prius has the same engine/drivetrain and I find it more than sufficient - things like overtaking or getting up to speed joining a motorway are not a bother at all. Maybe it's down to driving technique? I'm not afraid of flooring it!

With the Rav4 Hybrid, I think it was designed more with the US market in mind where the competition is more likely to be 2.5+ litre petrol V6's - the fuel efficiency is comparatively good compared to those, but I'm not sure it meets the higher expectations of European motorists.

thierry14

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Toyota simply can't admit that EV is the future or at least Big battery EV with generator solely as backup. This is they way they should have gone a number of years ago and the route Nissan should have taken in the beginning.

From the pioneers of hybrid tech I have to say that it's rather sad that This is the best Toyota can come up with since 1998 !

Its working for them

One of the biggest auto makers in the world

With a good reputation and loyal customer base

I like what they are doing

All or nothing, they are not talking bull like the Germans with EV’s

They will move to EV when they need to

Its not like EV’s are complicated and they couldnt make them

They have a good relationship with Panasonic and will more than likely get batteries from them or there own solid state when it's ready

Shefwedfan

thierry14 wrote: »

I
All or nothing, they are not talking bull like the Germans with EV’s

:rolleyes:

:P

thierry14

Shefwedfan wrote: »

:rolleyes:

:P

I see Hyundai announcing a soon to be released reasonably priced long range EV today

Where are the Germans soon to be released long range EV’s?

At the concept stage lol

At least Toyota are upfront and say not yet/not interested

Shefwedfan

thierry14 wrote: »

I see Hyundai announcing a soon to be released reasonably priced long range EV today

Where are the Germans soon to be released long range EV’s?

At the concept stage lol

At least Toyota are upfront and say not yet/not interested

This thread is about Toyota, the give away was Toyota in the title

I dont see why every thread is used to have a pop at German car makers. By all means start a thread and you can post to your heart content about what the German car maker are up too......

I dont see what it has to do with a Toyota thread?

thierry14

Shefwedfan wrote: »

This thread is about Toyota, the give away was Toyota in the title

I dont see why every thread is used to have a pop at German car makers. By all means start a thread and you can post to your heart content about what the German car maker are up too......

I dont see what it has to do with a Toyota thread?

That is true

Knew you would bite

Battery tech is more than good enough to offer a 200 Km range EV and if that's not good enough they can install an optional generator, it's not rocket science, the tech is more than good enough today and has been for a number of years

Hybrid was fine in 2004 with the release of the MK II prius, it could have been a lot better but Chevron Texaco would not allow Toyota to install a larger then 1 Kwh size NiMh battery.

Now that we have lithium which is more than good enough a big battery 30-40 Kwh with Generator is simply the best option for now.

It's sad that most manufacturers had no hybrid on the road in the mid to late 2000's - 2010's +. But there was too much emphases on Diesel, it was too easy......

stimpson

zilog_jones wrote: »

I haven't driven a Prius+ myself, but it's not exactly lacking in power compared to the competition. My Prius has the same engine/drivetrain and I find it more than sufficient - things like overtaking or getting up to speed joining a motorway are not a bother at all. Maybe it's down to driving technique? I'm not afraid of flooring it!

With the Rav4 Hybrid, I think it was designed more with the US market in mind where the competition is more likely to be 2.5+ litre petrol V6's - the fuel efficiency is comparatively good compared to those, but I'm not sure it meets the higher expectations of European motorists.

The Prius+ is a heavy beast (over 2 tonnes gross weight). I test drove one and it was seriously under-powered for it's size. I now have an Auris HST, with the same drivetrain and battery and it's decent enough in that car.

unkel

thierry14 wrote: »

Its working for them

One of the biggest auto makers in the world

A few years ago they still were the biggest auto maker in the world. And now VW is, despite the dieselgate scandal.

It is not really working for Toyota, is it?

If they can't bring a mass produced reasonable price EV to market within the next few years, I wouldn't be surprised if they go under.

bp_me

Shefwedfan wrote: »

He only has the Rav4 2.5 for 2 months but it is hard on juice, hoping this is just as engine is breaking in but up at 12 MPG at the moment, still only done 3k km so far.

Whether or not you can achieve the claimed MPG in a toyota hybrid is extremely dependant on a) your driving cycle and b) how much heat you are demanding from the engine.

That said 12MPG is pretty unforgivable so it might be worthwhile for your friend to first see what it can achieve on a decent spin and sensible speeds and if it doesnt do what it should then a return trip to the dealer is in order.

For what it's worth the new generation 1.8 (prius, prius plugin, and chr) is an improvement over the previous 1.8 so a 2.0 based on the same technology should be nice to drive. A 1.4kWh battery pack is a bit crap though!

What's worse is that if you needed to replace a 1 Kwh NiMh battery Toyota would charge you about 2500 and Nissan will charge 5500 for a 24 Kwh Lithium !

I'd hate to see what they charge for their Lithium packs in their plug ins with what, 4 Kwh ? :eek:

zilog_jones

stimpson wrote: »

The Prius+ is a heavy beast (over 2 tonnes gross weight).

Gross weight is the maximum operating weight of a car, including cargo, passengers, etc. The car itself doesn't weigh that much!

The kerb weight of a Prius+ is about 1600kg - around 200kg more than the 3rd gen Prius it's based on. It's a good bit heavier, but for comparison a diesel Verso weighs about the same and has less power (112 bhp vs. 134 of the Prius+).

Maybe Eco Mode was on?

stimpson

zilog_jones wrote: »

Gross weight is the maximum operating weight of a car, including cargo, passengers, etc. The car itself doesn't weigh that much!

The kerb weight of a Prius+ is about 1600kg - around 200kg more than the 3rd gen Prius it's based on. It's a good bit heavier, but for comparison a diesel Verso weighs about the same and has less power (112 bhp vs. 134 of the Prius+).

Maybe Eco Mode was on?

Try driving a car with no fuel or driver!

I actually owned a diesel Verso at the time (2.0 - 126bhp) but looking at the numbers it has twice the torque of the Prius and the same 0-62 time. I tried to overtake in the Prius on the motorway and it was painfully slow in comparison and was the main thing that stopped me buying it. The Hybrid drive will give it everything if you floor it, regardless of what mode it's in, so it's wasn't down to it being in Eco mode. I assume the Verso has better acceleration at speed due to the extra torque.

bp_me

stimpson wrote: »

The Hybrid drive will give it everything if you floor it, regardless of what mode it's in, so it's wasn't down to it being in Eco mode.

ECO mode does literally require that you floor it though. Prodding the accelerator like you normally would wont do it.

Anyway on motorway the easiest thing to do is just hold up on the cruise control stalk

stimpson

bp_me wrote: »

ECO mode does literally require that you floor it though. Prodding the accelerator like you normally would wont do it.

Anyway on motorway the easiest thing to do is just hold up on the cruise control stalk

I'm not afraid of burying my foot. I had a life before I bought a family car

thierry14

unkel wrote: »

A few years ago they still were the biggest auto maker in the world. And now VW is, despite the dieselgate scandal.

It is not really working for Toyota, is it?

If they can't bring a mass produced reasonable price EV to market within the next few years, I wouldn't be surprised if they go under.

I wouldnt bet on it

They had a record year

Give it a year or 2 and they will have compliance cars out like the rest

Sure its only Nissan and Tesla that are non compliant now anyway

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/938661/

liamog

thierry14 wrote: »

I wouldnt bet on it

They had a record year

Give it a year or 2 and they will have compliance cars out like the rest

Sure its only Nissan and Tesla that are non compliant now anyway

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/938661/

You've already been corrected on that.

Hyundai/Kia production target for pure EV's 2018 is 100,000
Renault-Nissan production 119,000 for 2017
Tesla production 103,000 for 2017

zilog_jones

stimpson wrote: »

Try driving a car with no fuel or driver!

A full tank and driver don't weigh 500kg either (kerb weight may include a full tank too). Gross vehicle weight is the maximum operating weight the car is designed for - it's more for licensing purposes, as e.g. a B licence is limited to vehicles with a gross vehicle mass of 3.5t.

Anyway, I've never driven a Prius+, maybe they're just bad?

thierry14

liamog wrote: »

You've already been corrected on that.

Hyundai/Kia production target for pure EV's 2018 is 100,000
Renault-Nissan production 119,000 for 2017
Tesla production 103,000 for 2017

Maybe they will get act together this year

Ioniq supply issue wasn't nice in 17

Tesla and Nissan will be well over 100k in 18