HGVs overtaking on dual carriageways/motorways

whiterebel

Just a quick question, if anyone has a definite answer.

I know Herr Varadker brought in a law in 2012 about HGVs not allowed in the overtaking lane. I had a discussion about this with a driver last week, who said it was abolished again afterwards.
I have found the original legislation, but not found anything to say it was repealed.
Judging by the lack of road signs about it, he may be correct, or it may be government incompetence.

Anyone know?

Del2005

Without enforcement it doesn't make any difference if its legal or illegal. A HGV in the overtaking lane is possibly one of the less dangerous acts that you will see regularly on our roads.

moleyv

I'd just be happy if it were banned during busiest hours, or certain stretches of motorway permanantly.

Although it boils my blood being caught behind it happening, there has to be some allowance for a trucks to overtake.

whiterebel

Del2005 wrote: »

Without enforcement it doesn't make any difference if its legal or illegal. A HGV in the overtaking lane is possibly one of the less dangerous acts that you will see regularly on our roads.

That's partly why I'm asking. Why would an Irish driver abide by a law he/she knows about if they get overtaken by a foreign driver who isn't aware of the law?
It works really well in Italy, but they have 3 lanes, and signs everywhere to warn drivers about it.

CiniO

Law prohibiting hgvs from using most right lane on motorways was in force way before 2012.
Until 2009 it applied to buses as well, but since motorway speed limit for buses was increased to 100km/h in 2009 this limitations doesn't apply to them anymore.

It wasn't repealed. Still applies. And applies to both trucks artic and rigid, as well as any other vehicle towing a trailer.

SBPhoto

Its there but not enforced, has anyone seen a any court case re same?

whiterebel

CiniO wrote: »

Law prohibiting hgvs from using most right lane on motorways was in force way before 2012.
Until 2009 it applied to buses as well, but since motorway speed limit for buses was increased to 100km/h in 2009 this limitations doesn't apply to them anymore.

It wasn't repealed. Still applies. And applies to both trucks artic and rigid, as well as any other vehicle towing a trailer.

If that was the case, why did they bring out the law in 2012? It seemed to have been kicked around for a while before that, but only made law 6 years ago. AFAIR, the law says vehicles limited to 100km/h or less are affected, so that wouldn't that include buses?

CiniO

whiterebel wrote: »

If that was the case, why did they bring out the law in 2012? It seemed to have been kicked around for a while before that, but only made law 6 years ago.

Where do you get the info it was brought in 2012?
I clearly recall legislations from before 2009 prohibiting HGVs and buses to use most right lane on motorways.
If you require I can quote some later in the evening.

AFAIR, the law says vehicles limited to 100km/h or less are affected, so that wouldn't that include buses?

If it said 100km/h or less indeed it would affect buses.

But legislation say that it applies to vehicles limited to 90km/h or less, that's why buses are not affected (except from city buses with standing passengers which can't do more than 65km/h).

whiterebel

CiniO wrote: »

Where do you get the info it was brought in 2012?
I clearly recall legislations from before 2009 prohibiting HGVs and buses to use most right lane on motorways.
If you require I can quote some later in the evening.



If it said 100km/h or less indeed it would affect buses.

But legislation say that it applies to vehicles limited to 90km/h or less, that's why buses are not affected (except from city buses with standing passengers which can't do more than 65km/h).

You're right, it was 1997, I was getting mixed up with the speed limits being changed in 2012, which affects who can and can't go into the outside lane. And buses are exempt as you said.

Post here from a thread in 2015, which I couldn't seem to find when I searched first time, seems to sum it up:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=97127122&postcount=11

CiniO

whiterebel wrote: »

You're right, it was 1997, I was getting mixed up with the speed limits being changed in 2012, which affects who can and can't go into the outside lane. And buses are exempt as you said.

Post here from a thread in 2015, which I couldn't seem to find when I searched first time, seems to sum it up:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=97127122&postcount=11

That's correct.

However I actually think it was not 2012 changes which affected who can and who can't use most right lane.
It was just as speed limit for HGVs was raised from 80km/h to 90km/h, then legislation also changed a threshold for vehicles which were prohibited from most right lane of motorways from 80km/h to 90km/h (exactly as by your linked post).

Only change which affected which vehicles can or can't use most right lane on motorways, was afair April 2009 legislation, which raised buses speed limit from 80km/h to 100km/h. While at the same time legislation prohibiting vehicles from most right lane was unchanged, effetively this change too buses off the list of vehicles prohibited from using most right lane.

Funny enough RSA kept publishing their publications (leaflets, RoTR) which incorrect information that buses were prohibited from right lane all the way up to 2014, so it took them 5 years to finally understand the legislations.

the_pen_turner

so what am I supposed to do if I have trailer on my van on the motorway and am behind a tractor or other slow vehicle doing 50

CiniO

the_pen_turner wrote: »

so what am I supposed to do if I have trailer on my van on the motorway and am behind a tractor or other slow vehicle doing 50

What you're supposed to do is one thing, and what you will do is another.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

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the_pen_turner

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

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so whats the difference. aren't we all supposed o do that

irisheddie85

the_pen_turner wrote: »

so what am I supposed to do if I have trailer on my van on the motorway and am behind a tractor or other slow vehicle doing 50

Anything that can't go more than 50km/h isn't supposed to be on the motorway in ireland

the_pen_turner

irisheddie85 wrote: »

Anything that can't go more than 50km/h isn't supposed to be on the motorway in ireland

lots of tractors and fast tracks can do that . and there is a diference between being capable of and doing 50 km

ayux4rj6zql2ph

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the_pen_turner

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

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can other vehicles then drive legally in the overtaking lane

OldMrBrennan83

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irisheddie85

the_pen_turner wrote: »

lots of tractors and fast tracks can do that . and there is a diference between being capable of and doing 50 km

Then like every other rule of the road it's down to enforcement. I have seen slow moving tractors getting escorted off the motorway by police cars with lights on. I assume this was followed by a bollixing and some sort of fine.

mullingar

the_pen_turner wrote: »

so what am I supposed to do if I have trailer on my van on the motorway and am behind a tractor or other slow vehicle doing 50

Just have to wait until it's clear and no guards around.

Don't forget, all car/van trailers are limited to 80kmph on Irish roads, including motorways.

whiterebel

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

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No, see the legislation quoted above. They should never go into the outside lane.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

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whiterebel

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

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3. The Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations 1997 ( S.I. No. 182 of 1997 ) are amended by substituting for Regulation 33(1)(d) the following:


“(d) drive a vehicle of a class for which an ordinary speed limit of not more than 90 kilometres per hour is prescribed by regulations under sections 3 and 4 of the Road Traffic Act, 2004 in the traffic lane nearest the right hand edge of a carriageway having more than one traffic lane except where it is necessary to proceed in that lane due to an obstruction or because another lane or lanes is or are for the time being closed to traffic.”

CiniO

whiterebel wrote: »

3. The Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations 1997 ( S.I. No. 182 of 1997 ) are amended by substituting for Regulation 33(1)(d) the following:


“(d) drive a vehicle of a class for which an ordinary speed limit of not more than 90 kilometres per hour is prescribed by regulations under sections 3 and 4 of the Road Traffic Act, 2004 in the traffic lane nearest the right hand edge of a carriageway having more than one traffic lane except where it is necessary to proceed in that lane due to an obstruction or because another lane or lanes is or are for the time being closed to traffic.”

I'd say it would be good defense that tractor doing 50km/h on motorway actually is an obstruction.

whiterebel

The problem is when you've got one artic at 101km/h overtaking another doing 100km/h for 15 minutes, slowing down the whole M7 coming out of Dublin......

CiniO

whiterebel wrote: »

The problem is when you've got one artic at 101km/h overtaking another doing 100km/h for 15 minutes, slowing down the whole M7 coming out of Dublin......

I don't think I've ever seen any truck doing 100km/h in Europe.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

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the_pen_turner

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

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in theory yes but reality is different.
I passed a artic on the m8 a few months ago and took ages to pass it at 120

bobbysands81

irisheddie85 wrote: »

Anything that can't go more than 50km/h isn't supposed to be on the motorway in ireland

You see plenty of tractors on the M11.

Rave.ef

The reality of the situation is if I'm behind a lad doing 80kph I'm going to pass him at 90. I won't hold anyone up for less then 10 seconds. Now that being said there are dips#*/s out there that pass the lad doing 88 when they can only do 89 and do it in rush hour but you also have morons in cars that cause hold ups. Id actually pass more cars in the lorry on the motorway then you'd believe.
It's a law that is over looked because usually it's not a real issue.. usually. Same as the truck driving on the hard shoulder on a good stretch of N/R roads to let you by. That's also illegal but I bet no body minds that.

CiniO

Rave.ef wrote: »

The reality of the situation is if I'm behind a lad doing 80kph I'm going to pass him at 90. I won't hold anyone up for less then 10 seconds. Now that being said there are dips#*/s out there that pass the lad doing 88 when they can only do 89 and do it in rush hour but you also have morons in cars that cause hold ups. Id actually pass more cars in the lorry on the motorway then you'd believe.
It's a law that is over looked because usually it's not a real issue.. usually. Same as the truck driving on the hard shoulder on a good stretch of N/R roads to let you by. That's also illegal but I bet no body minds that.

Why do you think it's illegal?

ayux4rj6zql2ph

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whiterebel

CiniO wrote: »

I don't think I've ever seen any truck doing 100km/h in Europe.

Plenty on the M7/M8/M9 most evenings.

bucketybuck

CiniO wrote: »

Why do you think it's illegal?

Speaking as somebody who was once very lucky not to get wiped out of by an idiot driving down the hard shoulder, if its not illegal, it damn well should be.

CeilingFly

Pulling into a hard shoulder on a national route is not just permitted, but it is stated that you should do that.

The hard shoulder must have a broken yellow line and you should ensure it is safe to do so.

And here's the exact wording

On national roads, the hard shoulder is normally for the use of pedestrians and cyclists only. If you want to allow a vehicle behind to overtake, you may pull into the hard shoulder briefly as long as no pedestrians or cyclists are using it and there are no junctions or entrances nearby. In the case of motorways, however, you must not drive on the hard shoulder, except in an emergency.

Rave.ef

CiniO wrote: »

Why do you think it's illegal?

Because it's not a lane. I know legislation is ify about it because it states motorway but if there was no law governing it then it would be chaos.

mullingar

Magnets.

They also interfere with tachographs.
https://twitter.com/GardaTraffic/status/965625660017344512

Rave.ef

mullingar wrote: »

Magnets.

They also interfere with tachographs.
https://twitter.com/GardaTraffic/status/965625660017344512

Not all of us do that it's a very rare few.
Lads like that give us a bad name

Rave.ef

Rave.ef wrote: »

Not all of us do that it's a very rare few.
Lads like that give us a bad name

I'm up and down the M7 & N7 regularly..... you'd rarely see a hgv doing anything out of the way to be fair.