Will many teachers leave??

janes1234

Just wondering if you all think teachers will be either retiring early or retraining. All of this reform together with worsening conditions is bound to have an effect. I was discussing this with colleagues earlier today who reckon the best days of teaching here are well over and it we will soon be teaching through the summer. I have 10 years experience and struggled majorly to get a job secure job when I qualified. Luckily have CID now but it is all food for thought.

Also the media spin on teaching at the moment is pretty horrendous. Paying people to do masters in teaching? Pool of masters students to sub? Jesus if the job hadn't been so casualised and downgrades in recent years they might have a few more teachers!

mtoutlemonde

janes1234 wrote: »

Just wondering if you all think teachers will be either retiring early or retraining. All of this reform together with worsening conditions is bound to have an effect. I was discussing this with colleagues earlier today who reckon the best days of teaching here are well over and it we will soon be teaching through the summer. I have 10 years experience and struggled majorly to get a job secure job when I qualified. Luckily have CID now but it is all food for thought.

Also the media spin on teaching at the moment is pretty horrendous. Paying people to do masters in teaching? Pool of masters students to sub? Jesus if the job hadn't been so casualised and downgrades in recent years they might have a few more teachers!

I've been thinking about that as well. If I were anywhere near retirement- I would leave. More work has been foisted on us with reduction of contact hours. With the struggle the SEC have recruiting - I can see us supervising exams and marking. It will become part of a teaching contract. All this change seems to be happening so quickly.

I honestly think the bad media spin is the departments (or whoever) way of reducing teacher numbers - when I did my dip, competition was rive and you needed a good degree and or teaching experience. A few years later, student teachers are studying for two years, paying huge fees, no allowances, lack of work or a few hours per week. I hope it doesn't go too far and we become like England with problems with recruitment. I also don't think the shortage is nationwide but mainly in the East where working as a teacher will not allow you to pay your rent, food etc. It's necessary to find a second job. Saying all that, in my present school, there are seven dips so the interest is still there.

2011abc

PME students in our school are being given full hours’ maternity leaves and not just one or two of them .Some contrast with a few years ago when vastly experienced teachers did dozens of interviews in vain for a few hours work a week .
Soon there will be few over forties in the staffroom who are not in management.
What was once a job that was fairly benign towards older people is becoming increasingly populated by younger (and cheaper!) people .
There was always a small number of teachers who had to retire early but staff are being forced out more and more now by all these negative developments .
How could anybody with a clue about the job in all honesty predict that the number of teaching graduates who ‘reach’ their pensionable age could possibly be 25% ?10% Even 5% ???!!!Crisis for the ‘profession ‘ .

r93kaey5p2izun

It took me over ten years to get 22 hours CID despite teaching 22 hours every year. I love being in the classroom. I despise the ETB with every fibre of my being and I'm neither surprised nor sorry to see they have reached desperation levels in terms of teacher recruitment. I'm resigning at the end of this year. It's just not a viable job given the time, effort and costs involved. I think anyone entering the profession in the last few years is mad, except maybe for those who it suits for childcare and who aren't relying on it as the main wage. In terms of the stated aims of increasing diversity in teaching that's really very worrying - the pool of candidates is likely to become even narrower.

ethical

I reckon there could arise a situation similar to c.10-12 yrs ago where there were at least 3 different retirement strands that saw teachers leave in droves.I remember staff referring to it as the " Mad,Bad or Sad" package.Teachers retired and their pensions were enhance by c7 years.One person I m aware of welcomed it and while never a teacher that gave his all to teaching he ended up in the Dáil (I suppose lots of them do!).It was disgraceful to say the least.If similar packages became available again I could see teachers of 50 yrs + jumping at the opportunity.A word of caution here in that many of the teachers that would like to go are still up to their necks with mortgage debts and perhaps have a child or two with college fees looming.So its not going to be easy.If it did happen the newer,younger teachers could get the jobs and try and put some sort of life plan together for themselves which cannot be done with the current insult of 1 and 2 hour contracts here and there.
Unfortunately quite a few teachers killed the goose that laid the golden egg by totally abusing their positions and hence we have now the situation where conditions are totally eroded.Look at the ETBs and the "jobs for the boys brigade" which stills goes on.I'll "move" from one area to another and stay there for 3 years ,my pension will be topped up and I'll nominate someone else for my position.Of course we will go through the palaver of wasting taxpayers money by setting up "false" interviews where certain octogenarians will " come out of retirement" and gratefully accept the "job" of wasting taxpayers money in the form of interviewing candidates for various positions knowing full well that the name of the chosen one is in the top pocket....but hey isnt it taxpayers money,who gives a damn! A full enquiry needs to take place to out theses wasters ,once and for all,but who will do it? I ve done my bit but most of it falls on deaf ears.You see the system is totally rotten to the core and no one gives a damn and the few that do have not the means, financial or otherwise, to be heard.A sorry state indeed!

mtoutlemonde

Lance Tart Marinade wrote: »

It took me over ten years to get 22 hours CID despite teaching 22 hours every year. I love being in the classroom. I despise the ETB with every fibre of my being and I'm neither surprised nor sorry to see they have reached desperation levels in terms of teacher recruitment. I'm resigning at the end of this year. It's just not a viable job given the time, effort and costs involved. I think anyone entering the profession in the last few years is mad, except maybe for those who it suits for childcare and who aren't relying on it as the main wage. In terms of the stated aims of increasing diversity in teaching that's really very worrying - the pool of candidates is likely to become even narrower.

+1 on ETBs. I stopped many years applying for panels where there 'could' be a job. I did however work for an ETB and to be honest, I would never do it again. They messed around with my pay which took weeks to get, you couldn't get follow through with anyone - you would be talking to someone and when you wanted to speak to them again - they were gone to Afghanistan for a meeting. The way I was treated by some of the personnel was downright rude and unprofessional. The funny thing was they had meetings to try and solve the shortage problem - I said that I'd tell them: Have an open interviews, treat teachers like professionals and put some manners on the people who are dealing with staff. Remove the sly ways they mess around with contracts/hours in order to stop awarding CIDs. Just to add, I liked the school but not the ways they operate.

poster2525

Lance Tart Marinade wrote: »

It took me over ten years to get 22 hours CID despite teaching 22 hours every year. I love being in the classroom. I despise the ETB with every fibre of my being and I'm neither surprised nor sorry to see they have reached desperation levels in terms of teacher recruitment. I'm resigning at the end of this year. It's just not a viable job given the time, effort and costs involved. I think anyone entering the profession in the last few years is mad, except maybe for those who it suits for childcare and who aren't relying on it as the main wage. In terms of the stated aims of increasing diversity in teaching that's really very worrying - the pool of candidates is likely to become even narrower.

Lance Tart Marinade, hope you don't mind my asking... what field are you moving into? Or do you just intend to move schools?

r93kaey5p2izun

poster2525 wrote: »

Arlessienne, hope you don't mind my asking... what field are you moving into? Or do you just intend to move schools?

I'm going back to my previous job before I retrained. Although a move into a different area of it than before. Currently completing further qualification and back on placement to update skills and get back into it.

pandoraj09

I'm in my early 50s and would go tomorrow if I could. Hoping it won't be too long more before I can. If the "sad, bad or mad" option came back I would jump at it. I'm weary of it all. As a year head I used to get time off to do the job. Now I'm on full hours. I hate all the paperwork/planning stuff. I used to be able to do the Orals for a week but no subs available any more....I could go on and on but you've all heard it before. The next group of first years will be my last to see graduate, thanks be to God.

benvben

Nothings going to change unless teachers collectively come together and take action towards management, either that be through large protests or pestering teaching council to change. Ive heard of teachers protesting outside schools for half an hour on their lunch break - the lack of genuine action being taken by teachers is laughable. Moaning about it, standing outside the school on lunch break etc. are feeble attempts at making any changes.

evolving_doors

benvben wrote: »

Nothings going to change unless teachers collectively come together and take action towards management, either that be through large protests or pestering teaching council to change. Ive heard of teachers protesting outside schools for half an hour on their lunch break - the lack of genuine action being taken by teachers is laughable. Moaning about it, standing outside the school on lunch break etc. are feeble attempts at making any changes.

In fairness some teachers have been engaged in industrial action for the last 5 odd years.
I reckon the only action people will listen to has to come from the students who are suffering.
Any comment from the ISSU ?

Maybe things need to get even more worser first

techteacher

benvben wrote: »

Nothings going to change unless teachers collectively come together and take action towards management, either that be through large protests or pestering teaching council to change. Ive heard of teachers protesting outside schools for half an hour on their lunch break - the lack of genuine action being taken by teachers is laughable. Moaning about it, standing outside the school on lunch break etc. are feeble attempts at making any changes.

lots of talk but who will take action, remember talk is cheap

RealJohn

evolving_doors wrote: »

I reckon the only action people will listen to has to come from the students who are suffering.

Unfortunately, this is the reality. That’s not to say that students aren’t suffering already but it’s less obvious when they’re (mostly) in classes (mostly) being taught (mostly) by qualified teachers.
I still can’t believe the unions didn’t challenge the legality of withholding the pay of teachers who were fulfilling their contracts but not doing supervision.

Teacher0101

Well if the TUI grow a pair of balls in a better economic climate and look for better pay and conditions, things won't be so bad.

Unions just lay down and accepted the new JC. The new JC will be outdated in ten years as it (like all educational theory) is based on fashionable ideas by Education Professors who prefer their office and theatre L in UCD than teaching in an inner city school.

There are serious problems going to come down the line with the state of the JC exam and how it will impact those at LC. Only when it has a knock-on effect on the universities will anything be changed.

Industrial action is downing tools - I'm sorry if it impacts students, but I've my life to lead as well. Politicians treating teachers as if it is a religious vocation. If it was any other sector it would be militancy. It's the only way that works.

Gardaí did it and nurses have demanded and gotten increased wages. Teachers are paranoid of what parents think of them. sorry, but most people don't really like teachers anyway, so if all people are going to do is moan and not go on all out strike, rather than ridiculous lunchtime stoppages, they need their heads checked.

One random example from the USA inthe 40s/50s:

''• Political repression, and lack of support for the right to strike; this in addition to the Great Depression led to the stagnation of teacher salaries through much of the 1930s, including teachers taking on larger workloads and class sizes, while state governments slashed school budgets .


• With teacher strikes rare during much of the 1930’s, the Chicago teachers in District 1 in 1936 led a protest in front of the Board of Education when they defaulted on their salaries.

• Wartime inflation after War World II resulted in economic hardships for many teachers nationwide as they found much of their income eroded. According to historian Marjorie Murphy, during the war years, the average real income of industrial workers rose 80 percent while teachers' real income fell 20 percent.

• By 1943, teachers went on strike in 12 states. Their militancy paid big dividends as the average teacher salary increased by 13 percent since the end of World War II.''

Countless other examples from Germany, France, Italy in post war period.

Teaching has changed, you're not looked to as a pillar of the community as it was up to the mid 90s, lots of parents feel or are better qualified and are ready to challenge every little thing.

acequion

Teacher0101 wrote: »

Well if the TUI grow a pair of balls in a better economic climate and look for better pay and conditions, things won't be so bad.

Unions just lay down and accepted the new JC. The new JC will be outdated in ten years as it (like all educational theory) is based on fashionable ideas by Education Professors who prefer their office and theatre L in UCD than teaching in an inner city school.

There are serious problems going to come down the line with the state of the JC exam and how it will impact those at LC. Only when it has a knock-on effect on the universities will anything be changed.

Industrial action is downing tools - I'm sorry if it impacts students, but I've my life to lead as well. Politicians treating teachers as if it is a religious vocation. If it was any other sector it would be militancy. It's the only way that works.

Gardaí did it and nurses have demanded and gotten increased wages. Teachers are paranoid of what parents think of them. sorry, but most people don't really like teachers anyway, so if all people are going to do is moan and not go on all out strike, rather than ridiculous lunchtime stoppages, they need their heads checked.

One random example from the USA inthe 40s/50s:

''• Political repression, and lack of support for the right to strike; this in addition to the Great Depression led to the stagnation of teacher salaries through much of the 1930s, including teachers taking on larger workloads and class sizes, while state governments slashed school budgets .


• With teacher strikes rare during much of the 1930’s, the Chicago teachers in District 1 in 1936 led a protest in front of the Board of Education when they defaulted on their salaries.

• Wartime inflation after War World II resulted in economic hardships for many teachers nationwide as they found much of their income eroded. According to historian Marjorie Murphy, during the war years, the average real income of industrial workers rose 80 percent while teachers' real income fell 20 percent.

• By 1943, teachers went on strike in 12 states. Their militancy paid big dividends as the average teacher salary increased by 13 percent since the end of World War II.''

Countless other examples from Germany, France, Italy in post war period.

Teaching has changed, you're not looked to as a pillar of the community as it was up to the mid 90s, lots of parents feel or are better qualified and are ready to challenge every little thing.

I completely agree with everything you say but what do you mean by the above? ie "nurses have demanded and gotten increased wages" To my knowledge the nurses haven't gotten anything other than the paltry crumbs of the latest pay agreement that Liam Doran, who loves to talk out of both sides of his mouth, walked them into. But,do correct me if I'm wrong?

Teacher0101

On 1st September 2017 all annualised salaries, up to €65,000, are increased by €1,000.

Which I got from here: https://inmo.ie/tempDocs/Landsdowne%20Road%20Agreement%202015%20Q%20A.pdf

I may be completely wrong, apologies if so.

SligoBrewer

We got that too.

It had nothing to with the INMO or Liam Doran, who is a charlatan.