Defeatist Atitudes in the GAA

Sonny678

I have great time for Paddy O `Rourke . He was a great servant to the county of Meath and always tried his best. But his defeatist comments recently I thought were uncalled for . Yes we know we have had our worst decade since the 20s. But at the start of this decade the 07 to 10 team was breaking up. Between 2014 to 2017 there was a massive overhaul of the Meath panel with a set of new young players. I now believe we are entering a stronger period. It will take time and patience, but I believe at the start of the next decade the 2020s we will see progress again. We need to be realistic, know where are, but also accept the future can be better. A defeatist atitude wont beat the Dubs. For me below is what everything Meath football stands for, the never say die spirit passed from generation to generation.

This is Meath football. The below story shows the true spirit of Meath football. If u want to know about the spirit of Meath football read below. I meet people in my county every week from young to old who will say that we will beat the Dubs soon. Yes some of have a defeatest atitude . But there is many in the county from young to old who still believe. Maybe the story below will explain why we always believe we will beat the Dubs someday. Not this year or next but some day soon.

In the summer of 1964 Dublin were the reigning All Ireland champions. A team with St Vincent's player and led by Kevin Heffernan they were seen as unbeatable and were changing the face of football along with Down with new tactics and new training. They were expected to dominate leinster and football for years ( Where have we heard that before ). In the early 60s Meath were in divsion 3 and seen as a county living off former glories. But three brothers the Quinn brothers from a small tiny parish in rural county Meath called Kilbride had difference ideas Meath were playing Dublin in the leinster final of 1964. Meath were rank outsiders and Dublin the hottest of hot favourites were seen as unbeatable. No one gave Meath a chance.

Behind the scenes the three Quinn brothers father became critically ill and had very little time to live. On the Saturday before the match he became critically ill and it was believed he would not last the night. The local priest annointed him. The brothers didnt know what to do. Would it be appropriate to play the leinster final the next day. They believed it wouldnt. But there father told them on his deathbed, he whispered to them not just to play Dublin but to go out to Croker on Sunday and beat the Dubs. So with all their family uncles and aunts with tears in their eyes they decided that they were going to play and bring back the leinster Cup to show their sick father. As Jack Quinn said "Theres a job to be done lets f#$$//kin do it". Their mothers words left no room for doubt as they left the house the next morning as she said to each one of the brothers as they left the house "Go go Meath Meath'.

They went to the match and the local priest comes into the dressing room before the match and tells the brothers, the father is still alive. The brothers were magnificent in the first half. With Jack putting on an exhibition of high fielding. Unbelievably Meath were ahead at half time. In the dressing room.at the interval the news was passed on to the Quinns that the father was still alive. Meath came out in the second and gave the single greatest performance by a Meath team in a leinster final ever. With the three Quinn brothers to the fore Meath dethroned the reigning All Ireland champions by 7 points. In the papers the next day an Irish Press journalist wrote " the Dubs may as well have tried to take a high ball of the top of Nelson pillar as it take it from Martin and Jack Quinn".

As the cup was lifted the the Quinns received news that their father was still alive. That night the 3 Quinn brother Jack Martin and Gerry brought the Delaney cup back to Kilbride to show their ailing father. They say word of the famous victory seemed to revive their fathers spirit. He came around on the Monday and took it all in looking at leinster cup with pride as their mother read him articles from the newspaper about the match and his 3 sons. As she read about the match one of his last words was " thats fantastic ". It was emotional. He died on the Wednesday 3 days after the leinster final.

The brothers and Meath would unluckily lose to the great Galway team.in the semi final. In 66 they won leinster and defeated the great Down team by 14 points in a semi final . But again they lost to the great Galway team in the final. The next year they won Sam. And in 1968 toured Australia and played Auzzie Rules teams and were unbeaten as they toured and invented the international rules. They would beat Offaly in the greatest leinster final of them all in 1970.
The truth is not only did they dethrone in 1964 but they sent Dublin to the football wilderness for ten years as Dublin failed to win a leinster title for ten years till Heffos Army emerged in 1974.

And thats Meath football. Just as Mick lyons once said "Id live and die to play the Dubs". Martin Quinn said that when we heard what lyons said he told a local journalist " We all feel that way".
And he is right for many Meath people we all feel that way when it comes to beating Dublin. And the McEntee brothers are another set of great Meath brothers following in the footsteps of the Quinn brothers carrying on that great Meath tradition that is passed from one generation to another from one decade to another from one set of Meath footballers to another. And that is , "its mid July the hay is saved and The Dubs are beaten". A rallying cry for Meath footballers down through the ages.

MayoAreMagic

To be honest man, I dont consider it a defeatist attitude. I'd consider it a natural apathy that people will generally develop in any walk of life when faced with something that is inherently unfair. You reference beating the Dubs, and that is a key point here. Meath can win nothing in the summer without beating Dublin. Therefore, due to the system the gaa have engineered which is distinctly favoring one side, meath will win nothing. Id imagine facing into that system year in year out has worn away at the guy, and plenty more too, who maybe arent as forthcoming as POR. I imagine that he might be the first to say it, but is he the first to pack it in because of it? Id imagine not. Isnt it only natural? I give him credit for speaking his mind. However, Id also argue that if it was a more even playing field, to my mind, he wouldnt be walking away.

It is all well and good quoting mick lyons from decades past. But the more pertinent question facing us now is, if mick lyons was there today, what would he be saying? An even more pertinent question is, would he even be playing gaa, or would be have gone playing rugby or some other sport, like a lot of youth are doing these days? I have a feeling that he would actually be similarly strong-willed, and would come to a similar conclusion, just like his old team mate, colm orourke seems to have done regarding the current situation.

I'd imagine playing football for meath, and indeed a lot more counties, right now is a bit like when you were small and you played over at another lad's house. He owned the ball, his dad was the ref, his mother would horse you out of it if you tackled him too hard, his older brother was playing and he was allowed kick lumps out of you, and his team inevitably had to win. After a while you realise that it isnt what you signed up for, and you just think, ah here fc*k this.

Instead of lambasting POR, we should be realising that this is an established gaa footballer, central to his team, from strong gaa stock, raised watching the great meath teams of the 90s - you couldnt pick a guy more likely to love playing and keep playing gaa if you tried. If that guy is saying that it is a waste of time, it should be a red flag for everyone.

What I do take issue with is managers coming out and having a cut at him about it. Are they willing to make their 'arrangement details' public knowledge? Because if they arent then obviously you would wonder, is it in their financial interests for these lads to keep flogging themselves for no good reason?

Sonny678

Great response. Gave me allot to think about.

Yes we need to be honest and realistic where we are and criticize when criticism is needed. But not to be defeatist. Bernard Flynn, I thought responded to Paddys comments very well. I must admit I am looking at it totally from a Meath point of view, is this good for Meath or bad. I know I should think more of the whole area and I know it is a massive issue and its needs to be addressed. But just when this young new Meath are trying to build themselves up, Paddys comments are of no help whatsoever. Definatly I felt it led to more gloom and doom around Meath football leading up to Sunday.

nice_guy80

Dublin weren't getting millions of euro every year back then to run their coaching system.
this has produced a conveyor belt of talent all coming through a well tuned system

they have huge financial backing in comparison to almost every other county
just look at all the players getting free cars, players getting meals, recovery products
get to play all their games in Croke Park

It isn't a level playing field at the moment for counties

JustJoe7240

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Dublin weren't getting millions of euro every year back then to run their coaching system.
this has produced a conveyor belt of talent all coming through a well tuned system

they have huge financial backing in comparison to almost every other county
just look at all the players getting free cars, players getting meals, recovery products
get to play all their games in Croke Park

It isn't a level playing field at the moment for counties

Just to clarify, They're sponsored athletes, This doesn't come from the county board. And as for croke park, I don't see this being the key to their dominance, nor would it make a huge difference to bring them out of croke park

Great Post Sonny

danganabu

Oh look another anti Dublin football thread :rolleyes:

grbear

I think O'Rourke deserves credit for having the stones to say that the current demands being placed on players are simply too much. There are too many managers and coaches out there who base their entire strategy around the idea of being the 1995 Clare team that ran up dunes all winter.
I don't know if that's the strategy for the current Meath management but O'Rourke has been on the intercounty scene long enough at this stage. Ten years of constant donkey work and not being let enjoy themselves while training is still going on would wear down anyone.

I wonder if the calendar change was just the final straw for him. Lads are back in training now around Christmas time so they can't even enjoy that time of year now. I'm sure there was plenty of Christmas Day training this year which was met with approving messages of "showing great commitment" from fans who were settling into a rake of pints on Stephens Day.

EICVD

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Dublin weren't getting millions of euro every year back then to run their coaching system.
this has produced a conveyor belt of talent all coming through a well tuned system

they have huge financial backing in comparison to almost every other county
just look at all the players getting free cars, players getting meals, recovery products
get to play all their games in Croke Park

It isn't a level playing field at the moment for counties

I suppose it has only been a week since these comments where posted, about time they were repeated......

largepants

EICVD wrote: »

I suppose it has only been a week since these comments where posted, about time they were repeated......

If you don't like reading it then don't make a comment.

Personally I have become totally disillusioned with the inter-county game for the reasons mentioned above. Its no longer a level playing field and I genuinely fear for the future of the game. I haven't attended an inter county game in 5 years.

I'll be sticking to the grassroots. Its much more enjoyable.

EICVD

largepants wrote: »

If you don't like reading it then don't make a comment.

Personally I have become totally disillusioned with the inter-county game for the reasons mentioned above. Its no longer a level playing field and I genuinely fear for the future of the game. I haven't attended an inter county game in 5 years.

I'll be sticking to the grassroots. Its much more enjoyable.

Yes sir. Meanwhile quite a few people are enjoying the county scene because of their counties success. Success which came with spending funds wisely. You’re right it’s not a level playing field simply because most county boards either haven’t got a clue how to spend wisely or are just too greedy (we’re not getting into another funding debate, we all know Dublin get quite a few Euro,countless threads on that)

largepants

EICVD wrote: »

Yes sir. Meanwhile quite a few people are enjoying the county scene because of their counties success. Success which came with spending funds wisely. You’re right it’s not a level playing field simply because most county boards either haven’t got a clue how to spend wisely or are just too greedy (we’re not getting into another funding debate, we all know Dublin get quite a few Euro,countless threads on that)

Ah the old spending it wisely argument. Spending it wisely enough to have your own gym/training facilities? Or have a county ground capable of holding big games?

You're not getting into another funding debate whilst your post debates funding. In other words you want to put a gag on the fact that Dublin GAA are getting an inordinate amount of funding. It's too serious a topic to sweep under the carpet.

Of course all is rosy in your part of the world so us minions should just shut our mouths and put up with it.

blowitupref

On the AIB original interview Paddy O Rourke said

I would never have quit the panel when Mick O’Dowd was manager because he’s a fellow Skryne clubman

I think this is the case with some players on every county panel, they won't quit when they know or like the manager. O Rourke also said he was always going to give Andy McEntee a chance yet that chance was just one year so educated guess would be that McEntee has upped the training and prepartion from what O Dowd was doing and players such as O Rourke don't have time to give the type of commitment that McEntee requires.

Now if you don't want to give or have the time to give that required commitment then just leave but don't be coming onto the national media outlet and telling the GAA world that you left because Meath are going nowhere. They are a side that has aims to improve and to get up to Div one comments like that are no help whats so ever especially to Meath who are a young side and very much work in progress.

danganabu

Fair play to largepants he had a eureka moment 5 years ago and realised that Dublin, who at that time had won one in 17 years, were going to ruin the game becasue they were operating on an unlevel playing field and were simply too good for everyone else. And his solution was to pick up his ball take it home and sulk :D Seeminly all the while oblivious to the fact that Kerry had won 6 AI's in the same time frame and it didnt bother him in the slightest, were Kerry financially doping or were they simply better organised and more talented than the opposition?? I will give you some credit though largepants, it took the rest of the cry babies another 4-5 years to come to the same misconception.

Would have been very easy for every other hurling county to walk away from the game over the last 15 years and say no KK are ruining it they are just two good, but no the likes of Tipp and Galway recognised the bar had been risen and set about reaching that bar, alas KK's period of dominance has come to an end ( for now at least) and at least 5 or 6 counties will feel thay hava a realistic chance of winning the AI.

DoctaDee

blowitupref wrote: »

On the AIB original interview Paddy O Rourke said



I think this is the case with some players on every county panel, they won't quit when they know or like the manager. O Rourke also said he was always going to give Andy McEntee a chance yet that chance was just one year so educated guess would be that McEntee has upped the training and prepartion from what O Dowd was doing and players such as O Rourke don't have time to give the type of commitment that McEntee requires.

Now if you don't want to give or have the time to give that required commitment then just leave but don't be coming onto the national media outlet and telling the GAA world that you left because Meath are going nowhere. They are a side that has aims to improve and to get up to Div one comments like that are no help whats so ever especially to Meath who are a young side and very much work in progress.

I think it was quite well known in Dublin that McEntee was a stickler on fitness, and it sort of manifested itself in Ballyboden with some gruelling training early on

largepants

danganabu wrote: »

Fair play to largepants he had a eureka moment 5 years ago and realised that Dublin, who at that time had won one in 17 years, were going to ruin the game becasue they were operating on an unlevel playing field and were simply too good for everyone else. And his solution was to pick up his ball take it home and sulk :D Seeminly all the while oblivious to the fact that Kerry had won 6 AI's in the same time frame and it didnt bother him in the slightest, were Kerry financially doping or were they simply better organised and more talented than the opposition?? I will give you some credit though largepants, it took the rest of the cry babies another 4-5 years to come to the same misconception.

Would have been very easy for every other hurling county to walk away from the game over the last 15 years and say no KK are ruining it they are just two good, but no the likes of Tipp and Galway recognised the bar had been risen and set about reaching that bar, alas KK's period of dominance has come to an end ( for now at least) and at least 5 or 6 counties will feel thay hava a realistic chance of winning the AI.

I'll attempt to reply to your post without resorting to insults. Only an attempt mind you.

See if you extracted your head from your orifice you might notice that Dublin had been winning u21 titles around that time too. Obviously reaping the benefits of all monies.

FYI I'm in no way sulking. I've simply seen the light.

And the difference between the likes of Kerry and Kilkenny is that the GAA didn't pump money into those counties like they did the Dublin. they openly admitted that they did it. But the Jackeens refuse to believe this happened. You say it's simply a once in a lifetime team. Well have a look at the 2011 and 2017 teams and tell me if it's once in a lifetime.

And by the way I never said Dublin were ruining the game. It was the GAA did that.

Obviously Jim's paranoia and sense of entitlement is rubbing off on his fan boys too.

Sonny678

blowitupref wrote:

I think this is the case with some players on every county panel, they won't quit when they know or like the manager. O Rourke also said he was always going to give Andy McEntee a chance yet that chance was just one year so educated guess would be that McEntee has upped the training and prepartion from what O Dowd was doing and players such as O Rourke don't have time to give the type of commitment that McEntee requires.

blowitupref wrote:

Now if you don't want to give or have the time to give that required commitment then just leave but don't be coming onto the national media outlet and telling the GAA world that you left because Meath are going nowhere. They are a side that has aims to improve and to get up to Div one comments like that are no help whats so ever especially to Meath who are a young side and very much work in progress.

I agree 100 %. I feel the biggest problem Andy faces well first getting us to play a system that blends our traditional game and the more moderm possession game. That is not working at the moment. But that will take time. Also building up the strenght and conditioning of these young players as we have one of the smallest teams in inter county football. That will take time. But making the players more confident in themselves that will take time. They have ability and potential but they have had bad experiences in the Meath jersey at underage and senior level. It will take time to build up their confidence.

Andy is a great man manager. But Paddys comments are not helpful. Remeber it took Sean Boylan 4 years to turn Mick lyons Martin O Connell Gerry McEntee Colm O Rourke and Bernard Flynn into winners. It took Mick Dwyer 5 years to turn Glen Ryan Davy Dalton Anthony Rainbow into winners. And Eugene McGee took 4 years to the turn the lowry and Connor brothers into winners. It took Pat Gilroy 3 years to turn Dublin around. And its only in his 4th year kevin Walsh seems to be getting Galway back to the top table, it takes time. Mostly mentally to change a losing atitude to a winning mentality.

Its not about Dublin really. Yes it about Meath r trying to beat Dublin. But Dublin have always been superstrong. Name 1 year in the last 40 where Dublin where out of the top 3 or 4 teams. I cannot.
What Meath face now is what every Meath team has faced for decades going back to the 30s. Dublin go up a level are seen as unbeatable. Meath are going nowhere and Meath rise to the challenge. Meath have a new set of young players who are trying to do the impossible. But we have done it before on 5 different occasions in 5 different eras. And every decade we have at least been competitive and beaten them.
For example
In the 40s. Dublin were seen as unbeatable in leinster. They had the best country players in the country playing for Dublin. Meath had never even won an All Ireland. Meath toppled Dublin and became the number 1 team in leinster with Meath and louth winning every leinster title from 1947 to 1954.

In the 60s Dublin again had gone up a level. With fitness and tactics and backboned by a great St Vincent's team led by Heffernan. Meath were in div 3. But toppled Dublin again. And Dublin would go a decade without leinster title.

In the 70s we didnt beat them regularly but we were the only team to beat them in a national final along with kerry. And we should have beaten them in 76 and especially 77. We threw it away.

In the mid 80s Dublin were just as dominat as now. Only difference kerry could beat them in the 80s, kerry cannot beat them now. But in the that time Dublin won 9 leinster in 12 years. They have won 10 leinsters in the last 12 years. In that period late 70s 80s they reached they 8 All Ireland finals in 11 years . In this decade they have reached 5. Yes they have won more now, but in leinster terms Dublin were just as strong back then as now. Meath again toppled Dublin. And in 9 games in 5 years Dublin beat Meath once between 86 and 91.

In the 90s Dublin weren't as strong as now. But they were not weak eitheir reaching 3 All Ireland finals in 4 years in the 90s. Meath toppled the. again in 96 and Dublin wouldnt reach an All Ireland final for another 16 years .

In the 00s it was similar to 70s. One famous win. But we were competitive with a win in 01 a draw in 07 and the 5 goal hammering in 2010.

This decade has been similat to the late 40s late 50s late 70s where Dublin where seen as unbeatable. But Meath are the start of the decade 06 to 10 team was breaking up and between 2014 and 17 we were in transition. We now have a complety new team with massive overhaul of the team and panel.
But have Dublin gone onto a level that is impossible to topple them from now. Time will tell. This is a new young Meath team. 11 of the 15 that started v kildare in both games last year have the left the panel. While Meath could have 6 to 7 changes to the championship team in June in comparison to the team that played kildare last year.

This Meath team are a work in progress. They are years behind Dublin. But they have years of football left in them. They would reach their peak as player when they reach 27 28 in early 00s. They have potential . It looks impossible now. Mentally that is the area Andy needs to work on. I just think while I admire Paddys honesty. It doesnt help our cause.

danganabu

largepants wrote: »

I'll attempt to reply to your post without resorting to insults. Only an attempt mind you.

See if you extracted your head from your orifice you might notice that Dublin had been winning u21 titles around that time too. Obviously reaping the benefits of all monies.

FYI I'm in no way sulking. I've simply seen the light.

And the difference between the likes of Kerry and Kilkenny is that the GAA didn't pump money into those counties like they did the Dublin. they openly admitted that they did it. But the Jackeens refuse to believe this happened. You say it's simply a once in a lifetime team. Well have a look at the 2011 and 2017 teams and tell me if it's once in a lifetime.

And by the way I never said Dublin were ruining the game. It was the GAA did that.

Obviously Jim's paranoia and sense of entitlement is rubbing off on his fan boys too.

You are all over the place here its actually quite funny

Good attempt at avoiding the insults, you lasted roughly one click of the spacebar, granted probably alot of restraint for somoeone of you ilk.

Why have Dublin stoped winning all these U21's.........oh thats right the next generation are not as talented as the current senior ones, imagine that!!

And your point about comparing the 2011 team to the current team is actually re-affirming my point that this team, the one that is actually dominating, are a once in a generation team, just like the Kerry footballers and the Kilkeny hurlers were. In fact name me a single sport in the entire world, amateur or professional that hasnt seen at least a similar period of dominance from a single team/player. They have actually won very little in the bigger scheme of things and have been pushed to the pin of their colar so many times, their dominace is been over exagerated because so many, in fact all, of their rivals in Leinster are at an all time low. Kildare are the only ones even remotely with a chance of making the Super 8. Kildare, Meath and Louth the only Leinster teams in the top 2 divisions of the league and between them have won one game out of 9 thus far. This is not Dublins fault it is each individual county who took their eye of the ball. Pumping resources into senior intercounty set ups, high profile managers and fancy new grounds and totally ignoring the under age set ups within the county. Roscommon, Clare and Tipp have taken the correct steps to improve their football set ups and the results speak for themselves. Kildare and Meath have begun to address it as well and will iin time see the benefits.

And how in the name of jaysus could a hurling man from Tipp be considered a Jim Gavin fan boy

largepants

danganabu wrote: »

You are all over the place here its actually quite funny

Good attempt at avoiding the insults, you lasted roughly one click of the spacebar, granted probably alot of restraint for somoeone of you ilk.

Why have Dublin stoped winning all these U21's.........oh thats right the next generation are not as talented as the current senior ones, imagine that!!

And your point about comparing the 2011 team to the current team is actually re-affirming my point that this team, the one that is actually dominating, are a once in a generation team, just like the Kerry footballers and the Kilkeny hurlers were. In fact name me a single sport in the entire world, amateur or professional that hasnt seen at least a similar period of dominance from a single team/player. They have actually won very little in the bigger scheme of things and have been pushed to the pin of their colar so many times, their dominace is been over exagerated because so many, in fact all, of their rivals in Leinster are at an all time low. Kildare are the only ones even remotely with a chance of making the Super 8. Kildare, Meath and Louth the only Leinster teams in the top 2 divisions of the league and between them have won one game out of 9 thus far. This is not Dublins fault it is each individual county who took their eye of the ball. Pumping resources into senior intercounty set ups, high profile managers and fancy new grounds and totally ignoring the under age set ups within the county. Roscommon, Clare and Tipp have taken the correct steps to improve their football set ups and the results speak for themselves. Kildare and Meath have begun to address it as well and will iin time see the benefits.

And how in the name of jaysus could a hurling man from Tipp be considered a Jim Gavin fan boy

The bits in bold above tell its own story.

With statements like that you are better own sticking to the hurling because your knowledge of football is not very good.

seligehgit

Mod Warning

Please post and debate in a civilised manner.No name calling.

rpurfield

Don't know what's going on elsewhere but I do know Meath were in 6 days a week in January, and that's the problem. It's all well and good Flynn and them all having a go at the lad but they weren't doing the level of training where they are expected not just to train but to follow a gym programme and a detailed diet, go on a drink ban and all the rest of what goes on now. It's a huge commitment for lads, and with the exception of a few who have a sniff of a trophy what is it really for? Paddy has gone back to the club, he's racking up serious scores and I'd imagine enjoying his football now too. I wouldn't call it defeatist what he said, he's put a serious stint into the county and I don't blame him in the slightest for packing it up and taking a bit of his life back.

Croke Park needs to have a serious look at how county teams are training, and the season, it's unsustainable and something needs doing if they want to keep the top talent in each county on board

Barlett

But what do you do? How do you stop teams from training? I think the big issue is that after the league is finished , for many teams the season is effectively over. Dublin, Mayo & Kerry have taken up 3 semi final spots in 5 of the last 6 years , has there ever been a time where the same counties have dominated the end of the season in the same way ?

MayoAreMagic

Sonny, I know what you mean when you say it isnt about Dublin, but the thing is, would o'rourke be saying the things he is saying, if the GAA hadn't taken the action they have with Dublin? So although I get what you are saying - it isnt about Dublin, it is about Meath - the thing is the situation in Meath is closely linked to the goings on around Dublin.

When you think about it, you have Meath, a one time highly respected GAA stronghold that prospered under their own steam, going to the point of disinterest and complete apathy, on the back of what the GAA have done to ensure Dublin are a good GAA team (which is basically financially dope them over a sustained period of time). I just find that depressing. They have basically said 'screw you boys, we have money to make' to one of the cornerstones of the history of the game. If there was ever an indicator of the GAA completely selling out, that is it.

MayoAreMagic

danganabu wrote: »

Seeminly all the while oblivious to the fact that Kerry had won 6 AI's in the same time frame and it didnt bother him in the slightest, were Kerry financially doping or were they simply better organised and more talented than the opposition?? I will give you some credit though largepants, it took the rest of the cry babies another 4-5 years to come to the same misconception.

So basically what you are suggesting is that, because Ben Johnson is a doper, then people should be complaining when Usain Bolt wins races also.
Or, similarly,
because Bolt, who has never been caught for doping, gets praise, then Johnson, a proven doper, should also get praise for his wins...

How does that make sense to you?

MayoAreMagic

rpurfield wrote: »

Don't know what's going on elsewhere but I do know Meath were in 6 days a week in January, and that's the problem. It's all well and good Flynn and them all having a go at the lad but they weren't doing the level of training where they are expected not just to train but to follow a gym programme and a detailed diet, go on a drink ban and all the rest of what goes on now. It's a huge commitment for lads, and with the exception of a few who have a sniff of a trophy what is it really for? Paddy has gone back to the club, he's racking up serious scores and I'd imagine enjoying his football now too. I wouldn't call it defeatist what he said, he's put a serious stint into the county and I don't blame him in the slightest for packing it up and taking a bit of his life back.

Croke Park needs to have a serious look at how county teams are training, and the season, it's unsustainable and something needs doing if they want to keep the top talent in each county on board

The thing is though, if they were getting a fair crack at winning even leinster, I bet he would do the 6 nights a week. It is when you are doing it for nothing that people take issue.
I give him credit, he could have just taken the easy way out and said he had work commitments etc - like a lot of guys have done I would suspect, but he told it how it is. You have to respect that.

Think of it in a working environment. You are asked to work 6 extra long evenings a week, but you arent going to get any remuneration for it, or recognition either, simply because someone else is the bosses pet project and they are lined up for special treatment for reasons completely unrelated to your work (a cash cow). You would have to be off your head to accept those terms. Indeed, that would be the case in any other walk of life. So why do we think that GAA players should do it?

danganabu

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

danganabu wrote: »

Seeminly all the while oblivious to the fact that Kerry had won 6 AI's in the same time frame and it didnt bother him in the slightest, were Kerry financially doping or were they simply better organised and more talented than the opposition?? I will give you some credit though largepants, it took the rest of the cry babies another 4-5 years to come to the same misconception.

So basically what you are suggesting is that, because Ben Johnson is a doper, then people should be complaining when Usain Bolt wins races also.
Or, similarly,
because Bolt, who has never been caught for doping, gets praise, then Johnson, a proven doper, should also get praise for his wins...

How does that make sense to you?

Nothing and I mean absolutely nothing you have ever posted has ever made sense to me to be perfectly honest. Even your fellow Mayo posters are embarrassed by your guff at this stage!

MayoAreMagic

danganabu wrote: »

Nothing and I mean absolutely nothing you have ever posted has ever made sense to me to be perfectly honest. Even your fellow Mayo posters are embarrassed by your guff at this stage!

I don't really care about your opinions on myself.

Can you address the point please. You claimed that if some non dopers get praise then dopers should get the same praise, or if dopers get criticism then non-dopers should also get criticism.
It is to my mind a ludicrous point, so im just trying to give you a chance to flesh it out a bit.

If you dont want to expand on it fair enough, just say so, the thread doesnt have to be ruined because of it.

Always_Running

Not about Dublin they are the best in Leinster and Ireland. Meaths aims/target is much lower than Dublin e.g to reach the super 8s or try to gain promotion to div one this spring. The extra training that Meath were doing this January was probably more to do with the objective of league promotion.
Meath reaching Div one for the first time in over a decade would be something to build on and probably improve them for the championship also.

Meath are like a lot of sides outside the top 8 that are looking to progress and if other Meath players had the same defeatist attitude of Paddy O Rourke they would make no progress at all.

corny

Always_Running wrote: »

Not about Dublin they are the best in Leinster and Ireland. Meaths aims/target is much lower than Dublin e.g to reach the super 8s or try to gain promotion to div one this spring. The extra training that Meath were doing this January was probably more to do with the objective of league promotion.
Meath reaching Div one for the first time in over a decade would be something to build on and probably improve them for the championship also.

Meath are like a lot of sides outside the top 8 that are looking to progress and if other Meath players had the same defeatist attitude of Paddy O Rourke they would make no progress at all.

That might be true but it might also be true that the extra training represents the biggest gain they can make on O'Dowds time in charge. In his last year they were falling apart in the latter stages of games and it stunk of fitness issues.

O'Rourke should have just left it at 'I don't fancy the training load'. I'd say his former team mates were delighted to hear their efforts are futile. Big **** you to them if you ask me.

danganabu

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

I don't really care about your opinions on myself.

Can you address the point please. You claimed that if some non dopers get praise then dopers should get the same praise, or if dopers get criticism then non-dopers should also get criticism.
It is to my mind a ludicrous point, so im just trying to give you a chance to flesh it out a bit.

If you dont want to expand on it fair enough, just say so, the thread doesnt have to be ruined because of it.

That has to be one of the most outrageous strawman arguments ever concocted: D

Not sure if you are intentionally being obtuse or not but yes definitely don’t want to drag this thread further off topic, god knows you have enough threads for your constant woe is me anti Dublin rhetoric
.

harpsman

Sonny678 wrote: »

Great response. Gave me allot to think about.

Yes we need to be honest and realistic where we are and criticize when criticism is needed. But not to be defeatist. Bernard Flynn, I thought responded to Paddys comments very well. I must admit I am looking at it totally from a Meath point of view, is this good for Meath or bad. I know I should think more of the whole area and I know it is a massive issue and its needs to be addressed. But just when this young new Meath are trying to build themselves up, Paddys comments are of no help whatsoever. Definatly I felt it led to more gloom and doom around Meath football leading up to Sunday.

He has a valid point on both issues-the demands and the increasing gulf between Dublin and the rest. He wont be the last player to come out and say hes had enough of it.

I do think it wasnt great form to come out and say that the guys who were his teammates 6 months ago are no hopers.

bucketybuck

I wouldn't consider O'Rourkes comments defeatist at all, I would consider them bluntly realistic.

Why the **** would anybody actually want to be an intercounty footballer these days? A lot of young lads still buy into the charade but seriously, anybody who takes a step back and really looks at what it means and where the game is going could only come to one conclusion.

corny

bucketybuck wrote: »

I wouldn't consider O'Rourkes comments defeatist at all, I would consider them bluntly realistic.

Why the **** would anybody actually want to be an intercounty footballer these days? A lot of young lads still buy into the charade but seriously, anybody who takes a step back and really looks at what it means and where the game is going could only come to one conclusion.

https://twitter.com/Dfoley9/status/964248397103484931?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.balls.ie%2Fgaa%2Fpaddy-orourke-383654

bucketybuck

corny wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Dfoley9/status/964248397103484931?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.balls.ie%2Fgaa%2Fpaddy-orourke-383654

And?

corny

bucketybuck wrote: »

Why the **** would anybody actually want to be an intercounty footballer these days?

bucketybuck wrote: »

And?

'Gives my life a structure and drive to keep improving!'

rpurfield

Barlett wrote: »

But what do you do? How do you stop teams from training? I think the big issue is that after the league is finished , for many teams the season is effectively over. Dublin, Mayo & Kerry have taken up 3 semi final spots in 5 of the last 6 years , has there ever been a time where the same counties have dominated the end of the season in the same way ?

A shorter season, helped by a complete overhaul of competitions, with a training ban either side of it. In my ideal world you'd use the provincial championships as a warm up competition, grade the championships into a top and bottom tier of 16 or so each. four groups of four and go from there. Run it from April, and all counties banned from collective training before March. I haven't fully timed it out but I think it would be nice to see the bulk of games played in better weather too, the majority of counties play the majority of their games this time of year on heavy pitches.

tritium

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

So basically what you are suggesting is that, because Ben Johnson is a doper, then people should be complaining when Usain Bolt wins races also.
Or, similarly,
because Bolt, who has never been caught for doping, gets praise, then Johnson, a proven doper, should also get praise for his wins...

How does that make sense to you?

I know this point has been made many time to you on other threads and I know you just continually ignore it because it doesn’t suit your agenda but once more.....

You do realize that the GAAs intercounty setup has never been even? That before Dublin were on top in terms of finance it was still hugely lopsided. That (and fair play to them) teams such as Kerry were already streets ahead of the also rans in terms of financial and sponsorship management? And that this was reflected in terms of all Ireland performances too?

LoughNeagh2017

Derry county team are the worst now since the 60s maybe, I dont remember the 80s but I know they won Ulster in 87. Not many go to the league games, there is an attitude that they don't deserve to be watched. Lets say Derry were playing today, we would all be sitting watching the rugby game.

CrabRevolution

The whole Dublin thing is a red herring, and I say that as a Meath man. In the 10 seasons of the current league, Meath haven't been promoted once, we've managed to be relegated more often. How can we blame that on Dublin despite never having played them?

It's the same with the championship. We've been knocked out by Kildare, Laois, Tyrone, Armagh, Derry and Donegal in the last few years. How can that be spun to blame Dublin?