Jumping from diesel to Hybrid/PHEV

onzlo

I know this question has been asked to death on some threads but here's another one

I've a 2016 318d thats coming up to changing time. I've been starting to think about going down the hybrid/phev route but I know next to nothing about them. Like what is the difference between a hybrid and a phev?

I quite like the idea of them, especially since dieselgate.

I live in Carlow and my usual commute would be ~17kms to the M9 then all motorway to work (~80kms on the M9/M7/M50/M4). I do that 3 days a week. Then the usual driving around at the weekend

Am I better off sticking to what I know or would a hybrid/phev be a better option? I think if I was to change this year, I'd keep it for 3 years instead of my usual 2 and my budget is ~45k. More than likely going to down the UK import route too. The value/savings/choice is hard to ignore. Even if I had to try sell my car privately or find an importer that takes trade-ins




Also, every time I typed 'phev' this is all I thought about

Shefwedfan

PHEV/Hybrid is for city driving. You are doing the majority of driving on motorway so really hybrid /PHEV is not great. The current range of PHEV will only get you to the M9 before the battery is used up.

For the money you are talking about I would be looking at Tesla S, they have certified reused model from UK. A person posted a thread on here a few weeks back.

unkel

Or keep your car and wait for Tesla Model 3 (or who knows, BMW 3-series EV, but this is very much an unknown). It shouldn't cost an awful lot more than your 318d cost new and it should do your commute with ease, with plenty of range to spare and with a saving of thousands per year in fuel alone. Realistically you won't get a Model 3 until at least 2 years from now though

If you can't wait, I'd second a Tesla Model S certified pre-owned. Go book yourself a test drive in Sandyford - it might make your mind up for you

peposhi

Since I test drove a PHEV Outlander I seriously doubt the viability of purchasing one. All the PHEVs have 20-50km on electricity and are not as useful as it is thought. If the EV range on them is 100km then fine. That won’t happen anytime soon though...
A standard hybrid (and all hybrids in general) - in my opinion this is is just a way to maximise and prolong the profits gotten out of the Dino juice... caring two systems in your car that you have to maintain and service while you are saving what 1 or 2 litres of fuel per 100km...

If you really want to benefit from that change - go for the i3 with REX 33kWh 94Amp!
For less than €40k you’d buy a 6m/1y old car that is perfectly able to complete your daily journey on 1 charge (+ slight usage of the range extender).
Unless you need the space or love the look of the 3 series, there’s tons of reasons you are better off going for an i3 REX. Cros13 and Mad_Lad would give you here tons X factor 2 information...

Forget about Hybrid/PHEV with small batteries, you do too many Kms and would rely on the engine far too much.

.As suggested, 2nd hand Model S 60-85 Kwh. 60 Kwh perhaps about 300 kms , 85 Kwh about 350-400 Kms range,

Leaf II 40 Kwh around 220-250 Kms range.

Ioniq, around 190-230 Kms

BMW I3 Rex, 140-180 Kms EV then petrol Generator will take you anywhere as long as you get battery charge or petrol in the tank, it means you don't have to rely on Public charging or hang around waiting for someone to finish charging, if a charger is down or there's a queue the Rex ( generator ) allows you to continue as long as there's petrol in it's 8 litre tank. I've used about 12 litres of petrol in 3 months and about 9,000 Kms but that has saved me a lot of heartache at charge points, you can still charge at public DC and AC points if you wish , it gives you much greater freedom.

That's all I'd probably recommend right now.

Bigus

The market is changing and going to change more (dare I say going into turmoil)as you have surmised OP.
So perhaps reduce your financial/depreciation exposure and don't buy a 45 k new car now , consider trading down for 2 /3 years to something cheaper until more EVs become available . Modern cheaper cars approach the old premium brands for comfort and gadgets and safety.
How about a Half way house CHr hybrid Toyota or if still spending the bigger budget a small Lexus H , there's a new Lexus Ux hybrid on the way.
http://www.lexus.com/concept/UX/

unkel

Bigus wrote: »

The market is changing and going to change more (dare I say going into turmoil)as you have surmised OP.
So perhaps reduce your financial/depreciation exposure and don't buy a 45 k new car now , consider trading down for 2 /3 years to something cheaper until more EVs become available .

That's what I would do. Sell the 318d while you still can get good money for it. Buy a second hand full EV - it will keep its value well, might even go up in value. If range is too much of an issue, buy a '16 or '17 330e from the UK. These go really cheaply coming out of lease in the UK and you can bring it in with a massive discount on the VRT. Get your free charge point (subsidy) and save on fuel and save on depreciation compared to the 318d

Then be patient until the next gen of EVs come out

A 330e will cost you a lot more to run due to it's ridiculously tiny battery.

You could be surprised how 2nd hand values will creep up in a few years , I'd be more worried buying a new diesel today.

It seems you got two choices, 60-85 Kwh Model S or 2nd hand BMW i3 Rex, both of which are the only cars which will get you comfortably to work and back with range to spare without having to reduce speed if you don't want to and without having to stop to charge if you do not want to or risk having to queue or perhaps a charger could be down.

If you want BEV only then Model S is the only choice really.

What you can do is take 40 Kwh Leaf, Ioniq and i3 Rex for a day or two test drive and see how you get on with it but you will struggle to charge an ev with larger battery at home to be honest on an extension lead so you might have to charge the test car for some time on a fast charger then use the extension lead for the rest , a proper home charge point is much faster.

Take a few test drives and make uo your own mind, only way to do it.

thierry14

peposhi wrote: »

Since I test drove a PHEV Outlander I seriously doubt the viability of purchasing one. All the PHEVs have 20-50km on electricity and are not as useful as it is thought. If the EV range on them is 100km then fine. That won’t happen anytime soon though...
A standard hybrid (and all hybrids in general) - in my opinion this is is just a way to maximise and prolong the profits gotten out of the Dino juice... caring two systems in your car that you have to maintain and service while you are saving what 1 or 2 litres of fuel per 100km...

If you really want to benefit from that change - go for the i3 with REX 33kWh 94Amp!
For less than €40k you’d buy a 6m/1y old car that is perfectly able to complete your daily journey on 1 charge (+ slight usage of the range extender).
Unless you need the space or love the look of the 3 series, there’s tons of reasons you are better off going for an i3 REX. Cros13 and Mad_Lad would give you here tons X factor 2 information...

Less than 30k should do it

They are losing a fortune for some reason

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201712302338540?advertising-location=at_cars&advertising-location=at_cars&year-from=2017&postcode=m52ty&model=I3&page=1&make=BMW&fuel-type=Hybrid&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New

Still not as good as I got , Full leather and much better screen ! That would bring it up to much what the 37 K mine went for.

onzlo

Some good advice here.

A Tesla would be the ideal thing to get but looks like all the second hand ones are a bit out of reach https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/used Cheapest one is over £45k

Sorry but I couldn't drive a leaf. Not a fan of the looks :P

grogi

onzlo wrote: »

Sorry but I couldn't drive a leaf. Not a fan of the looks :P

My2018 is a complete redesign...

Leaf II 40 Kwh isn't a bad looker and it's gone from 109 to 150 Hp which will make it a lot better to drive.

i3 is just addictive to drive, just brilliant car and the Rex is also brilliant. This car will make you smile especially on back roads.

Take both Leaf II, Ioniq and i3 Rex on this route and see how you get on with them, worst that will happen is you get 3 free cars to drive for a day :-)

unkel

onzlo wrote: »

A Tesla would be the ideal thing to get but looks like all the second hand ones are a bit out of reach https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/used Cheapest one is over 45k

Cheapest CPO cars from Tesla in superb condition with 4 years warranty usually start at about £40k (without autopilot)

Private sale cars (still under manufacturers warranty) have been going from around the £30k mark. Even a lot cheaper at trade only auctions for high milers that are a bit rough. One problem is that the VRT is likely the same on a £50k car from Tesla with AP as on a rough £25k car (same year), albeit only a few grand

Idbatterim

I’d take a look At the staggering depreciation on i3 on its own dedicated thread on electric car forum. Only car I’d touch at that price range is model s...

unkel

Model S is the least depreciating car for sale in the UK (of all cars, not just EVs). That makes it a good buy new, not so good second hand. The BMW i3 on the other hand...

The i3 suffers no more than any other premium brand car, as I said spec up a 35K A3 , 3 series or A4 and watch resale values plummet.

Depreciation on Model S is many times worse........

i3 will level out.

i3 also starts at what, 35 K ? not the Rex of course.

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

Depreciation on Model S is many times worse........

Eh, no. It isn't. As I said, Model S is the least depreciating car on sale in the UK.

But relax, you did very well. You bought one of the worst depreciating cars at a huge discount compared to when it was new. Most of the heavy depreciation was suffered by the first owner. You go back to your high spec i3 costing you not much more to own than your previous car cost you. And you have much more to enjoy this time

Oh right the U.K I missed that bit sorry.

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

The i3 suffers no more than any other premium brand car, as I said spec up a 35K A3 , 3 series or A4 and watch resale values plummet.

Depreciation on Model S is many times worse........

i3 will level out.

I read something a few months ago that the model S was the only car I history that depreciation was going back wards due to supply and demand.

I would guess that has changed now as more have come to market and going forward if Tesla start hitting targets they will start to reduce....

Any car will have high depreciation if you swap quickly, if you keep for a longer period of time this will level out

I always get hit with high depreciation every car I ever had because I normally change within 18 months or less, so BMW/Audi/VW/Ford etc

unkel

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I read something a few months ago that the model S was the only car I history that depreciation was going back wards due to supply and demand.

See my thread with the Times article. A lot of EVs in the UK have started to have negative depreciation now

The only explanation I have for it is that people are starting to cop onto the benefits of EVs, want one, but there just aren't enough of them. Demand > supply and the prices go up.