Had a conversation with my Finnish co-worker about third party insurance in Finland

DelaneyO

This fella is 27, he passed his test in Finland when he was 21. He bought and imported a 20 year old Beamer from Germany. 
The insurance for this ........ €90 per 3 months!
He told me how third part insurance is bought from "the Finnish equivalent of the Irish motor tax offices". There is no red tape or crap, just call up the government office, pay your money and get your insurance. It doesn't matter if you are new to the country or a returning immigrant, the insurance is the same. Once the car has a policy, anyone is insured to drive it with permission from the owner.
Would a system like that work in Ireland?

Effects

DelaneyO wrote: »

Would a system like that work in Ireland?

Then how would insurance companies make vast sums of money?
And how could massive payouts happen to scammers?

Nate--IRL--

Effects wrote: »

Then how would insurance companies make vast sums of money?
And how could massive payouts happen for scammers the legal profession?

You forgot to define the biggest scammers.

Nate

Tuco88

Seriously we need to hit the roads in protest again. Fair is fair, its just pure ransom momey now.

And stop this 10k minimum payouts for the so called minor "tip".

Cee-Jay-Cee

It would never work here as the rampant claims culture we have developed in the last 10-15yrs would make sure of that.

Dartz

We can't have nice things because:

Irish people are ****ing morons and Irish judges couldn't judge a wet t-shirt competition.

mickdw

I don't know about that finnish system. Is there no penalty for morons that continually crash into everyone around them.
I'd be strongly in favour of everyone starting with a clean sheet and getting insurance for a set base price at first but surely there has to be an incentive to keep your bib clean.

sdanseo

Maybe if Germany and Austria fixed their ridiculous privacy laws, car manufacturers would be able to integrate front and rear cameras in a black-box type solution. This could even be legislated for.

Factory CCTV would wipe out fraudulent claims by attrition very quickly.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

CiniO

sdanseo wrote: »

Maybe if Germany and Austria fixed their ridiculous privacy laws, car manufacturers would be able to integrate front and rear cameras in a black-box type solution. This could even be legislated for.

Factory CCTV would wipe out fraudulent claims by attrition very quickly.

And what would that change if fraudulent claims is only a small minority of all claims?

CiniO

mickdw wrote: »

I don't know about that finnish system. Is there no penalty for morons that continually crash into everyone around them.

I'm sure there is equivalent to our NCB.

I'd be strongly in favour of everyone starting with a clean sheet and getting insurance for a set base price at first but surely there has to be an incentive to keep your bib clean.

That's pretty much how it works in Poland.
You start with a clean sheet and collect NCB once there's no claims against your policy.
Every claim though would put you few points down on NCB scale, and if you go to zero, you might actually attract increase (opposite to NCB).

F.e. you start with 0.
Each year with no claims gives you 10% discount (up to 60% so full discount after 6 years).
Each claim - you loose 30% discount, so f.e. once you're at 40% discount, you end up with only 10% discount after one claim, but if there's another claim, you loose another 30%, so you move to 20% increase and so on.

Only example, as each insurer has different calculation methods.

mickdw

But the polish system sounds like ours then. Is it reasonable to get insurance day 1? Or is it a case of clean sheet meaning you get quoted 3k like happens here?

LirW

Ah yeah, I paid like 33 Euros a month insurance on my car back home in Austria, was great. I almost fell off the chair when I got my first insurance quote here, it was the likes of 5 grand. What baffles me the most is that there's very little difference in price for 3rd party and comprehensive.

Liam McPoyle

LirW wrote: »

Ah yeah, I paid like 33 Euros a month insurance on my car back home in Austria, was great. I almost fell off the chair when I got my first insurance quote here, it was the likes of 5 grand. What baffles me the most is that there's very little difference in price for 3rd party and comprehensive.

That's because the majority of risk lies with the third party ie injuries to other road users.

It's relatively easy to quantify the accidental damage side of insurance because any vehicle will only ever have a finite maximum loss payout.

With third party though the potential payout could be hundreds or it could be millions.

That's why motorcycle insurance is alot cheaper than car.

If a motorcyclist has a bad crash the likelihood of them injuring passengers in a car is relatively low but a car smashing into another car means alot more third party risk is at play.

banie01

The amount of Driver training Finn's undertake before becoming fully licensed probably has a large bearing on their insurance rates.
That coupled with a lower overall book of quantum or whatever their equivalant is.

sdanseo

CiniO wrote: »

And what would that change if fraudulent claims is only a small minority of all claims?

Something like 10% of all premiums is the cost increase reflected by the Insurance levy / insurance compensation fund contributions and the cost associated with fraudulent payouts.

That's between €40 and €100 on most policies, €68 for me, and up to €300 for new drivers. Not a small saving. Even eliminating that is a huge step and that's before you look at the benefits such as speedier resolution of bone fide claims (just look at aircraft, how quickly and easily they can solve accidents once they find the data recorders), deterrent value and so on.

It's not unrealistic to suggest every car having a data recorder and camera system would reduce premiums by a very significant amount over time.

LirW

Business Cat wrote: »

That's because the majority of risk lies with the third party ie injuries to other road users.

It's relatively easy to quantify the accidental damage side of insurance because any vehicle will only ever have a finite maximum loss payout.

With third party though the potential payout could be hundreds or it could be millions.

That's why motorcycle insurance is alot cheaper than car.

If a motorcyclist has a bad crash the likelihood of them injuring passengers in a car is relatively low but a car smashing into another car means alot more third party risk is at play.

I have very little knowledge about insurance practices in general but I'm always amazed that this can happen within the EU.
Anyway maybe someone can shed some light on it: So I know in Austria it's a tough process getting an insurance payout for injury, if you'd go for compensation for a soft tissue injury it's highly unlikely you'll be successful.

How can it be that the book of quantum has these high sums fixed and that this isn't changed even though it would be in the best interest of the majority? Or doing the payout solely in medical fees and changes of the home if required?
Genuinely interested.

Dev84

DelaneyO wrote: »

This fella is 27, he passed his test in Finland when he was 21. He bought and imported a 20 year old Beamer from Germany. 
The insurance for this ........ €90 per 3 months!
He told me how third part insurance is bought from "the Finnish equivalent of the Irish motor tax offices". There is no red tape or crap, just call up the government office, pay your money and get your insurance. It doesn't matter if you are new to the country or a returning immigrant, the insurance is the same. Once the car has a policy, anyone is insured to drive it with permission from the owner.
Would a system like that work in Ireland?

Im not crazy about these threads."This is how the scandanavians do it"

Our personal injury claims are a joke. Thats why it wouldnt work. I presume in Finland you dont get 30k for someone slipping off the clutch and "hitting" you.

CJhaughey

From memory I think UK and Ireland are the only two countries in the EU (brexit aside) that have unlimited claims for personal injuries, this suits the legal profession as it means claims are not capped and the gravy keeps flowing.
I am not so sure that it benefits anyone apart from the legal profession however they have strongly resisted any changes to the current system as it stands.

dr.fuzzenstein

CJhaughey wrote: »

From memory I think UK and Ireland are the only two countries in the EU (brexit aside) that have unlimited claims for personal injuries, this suits the legal profession as it means claims are not capped and the gravy keeps flowing.
I am not so sure that it benefits anyone apart from the legal profession however they have strongly resisted any changes to the current system as it stands.

I found an interesting link:

http://www.nobleshippinglaw.com/news/irelands-compo-culture-an-attractive-forum-for-personal-injury-claims

I think it can be down to an inherent claiming culture, payouts way out of line with the rest of Europe, quite low burden of proof for your injuries and no statutory offence of perjury.
This not only means you can stage a 2 vehicle crash with 4 occupants per vehicle and hope to get €15k each, you can also expect very little consequences other than a slap on the wrist, a wink and a "better luck next time" from the judge if your cock and bull story is not accepted.
But it also means that if Mary from Cork gets a bump in her Yaris at 5 km/h, she can expect to be given €15k no questions asked.
And I think that is almost worse than the staged crashes, the idea "well, I'm fine, but I'm entitled to this money, I would be mad not to take it"
I've been in 3 accidents that were not my fault and they were quite severe, one being a total write-off. I could have claimed a total of €100k with the correct sob story, and I'm sure a lot of people do. But I wasn't injured and since I suffer from terminal stupidity I didn't sue.
Would have paid half my mortgage off. Many people see money when there is a little shunt.

It makes me sad for the people who are actually injured and deserve the money, because the cheats drag them down as well.

Alun

banie01 wrote: »

That coupled with a lower overall book of quantum or whatever their equivalant is.

They also probably have a modern legal system that isn't stuck in the 18th century that uses nonsensical terms like "book of quantum" and loads of latin phrases.

ED E

I like to call the Finns a nation of librarians.

Picture your local librarian (if you've been there in the last decade) in a mid range Skoda tootling along. Thats 99% of Finns.


PS: Remember for 1/2-2/3 the year they're snowed down and every time a vehicle passes in the opposite direction you're temporarily blinded so the driving environment is far far harsher.

dr.fuzzenstein

ED E wrote: »

I like to call the Finns a nation of librarians.

Picture your local librarian (if you've been there in the last decade) in a mid range Skoda tootling along. Thats 99% of Finns.


PS: Remember for 1/2-2/3 the year they're snowed down and every time a vehicle passes in the opposite direction you're temporarily blinded so the driving environment is far far harsher.

Until they jump into a rally or F1 car, win the world championship and then spend the night drinking 5 bottles of vodka.