Told a slight lie to Garda when stopped in bus lane got 2 penalty points.

Photek1976

I don't know if I will get them but he said I would.

I was stopped this morning heading for East Point on the Coast Road (Dublin) and went into bus lane early. He stopped me and asked where I was headed, there is a car park before turn off so I said car park. He looked at me incredulously and asked if I was actually going to East point and I said "yes, sorry about that" he asked why I lied and I said I didn't know.

Then he said usually its just a €60 fine but he's going to give me 2 points for not showing due care and consideration because I lied initially. I think that's a bit harsh, also the encounter lasted about 1 minute in full. Is he bullsh*tting or not? and if he's not surely I can fight it.

Dravokivich

He can only give you points for your driving. Points can come with fines. I think he was just giving you a warning not to lie to a guard again.

Photek1976

Dravokivich wrote: »

He can only give you points for your driving. Points can come with fines. I think he was just giving you a warning not to lie to a guard again.

I figured as much. He didn't appear to take any of my details or check my NCT/Insurance/Tax (which are all perfect btw). He looked at my licence but as I said it all happened in 60seconds and I was gone again.

K.Flyer

Given the very long distance between the car park entrance and the turn for East Point BP you were taking a fair chance of not being caught driving in the bus lane given it goes right past Clontarf Garda Stn.
At the end of the day, your word against his, all you can do is hope he just sends you the fine.

he can only give you points against the driving but maybe he actually decided to give you them because you affronted his nyardiness with a fib.
"no backchat or fibs, I'm a guard".

biko

You lied, he lied

It evens out..

Photek1976

K.Flyer wrote: »

Given the very long distance between the car park entrance and the turn for East Point BP you were taking a fair chance of not being caught driving in the bus lane given it goes right past Clontarf Garda Stn.
At the end of the day, your word against his, all you can do is hope he just sends you the fine.

I was about 100ft from the turn off left if not less, I wasn't far from it at all. I can accept the fine but it's odd that if I just kept up with a lie I'd not get points.

Guy:Incognito

Photek1976 wrote: »

I was about 100ft from the turn off left if not less, I wasn't far from it at all. I can accept the fine but it's odd that if I just kept up with a lie I'd not get points.

Which is why garda discretion doesn't serve any useful purpose in a lot of cases. (it also doesn't fit with people's narrative of "revenue collectors" when it suits). If you commute the same route every day you see the same people taking the piss all the time. They know it's a slim chance of getting caught and if they do they might not even face any consequences each time.

Photek1976

I think ill go to court for the points if they come to be honest. I can't see a judge siding with the Garda for lying to him, if he ever turns up.

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Photek1976

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I was nervous I suppose. It's not like I've been stopped by garda before.

Photek1976

Photek1976 wrote: »

I think ill go to court for the points if they come to be honest. I can't see a judge siding with the Garda for lying to him, if he ever turns up.

think that you could only be done for -

Failure to comply with mandatory traffic signs at junctions

1 point when fine paid or 3 on conviction in court

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Licensed%20Drivers/Penalty%20Points%20Offences%2017%20April%202016.pdf

there is 2 points for

Driving without reasonable consideration

(very subjective that)

but isn't the other offence what you actually did

Photek1976

glasso wrote: »

think that you could only be done for -

Failure to comply with mandatory traffic signs at junctions

1 point when fine paid or 3 on conviction in court

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Licensed%20Drivers/Penalty%20Points%20Offences%2017%20April%202016.pdf

don't know where 2 points is coming from.

Yeah looked at that list and it lists nothing to do with conversing with a Guard. I'll update this if I get the points. Thanks guys .

Effects

Photek1976 wrote: »

I can't see a judge siding with the Garda for lying to him, if he ever turns up.

I have a feeling the judge would probably side with a Garda rather than a lying motorist!

Kenny Logins

Sounds like he punishing you for telling the truth. Should have stuck with the lie once it was out there - park the car, stretch the legs for minute, and then carry on with your journey. :pac:

Photek1976

Effects wrote: »

I have a feeling the judge would probably side with a Garda rather than a lying motorist!

The judge would think I was driving without due consideration to other drivers cos I lied about my destination? Okay.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Dude...you had a good story, you should have stuck with it, drove off into the car park and gone get a coffee...come back and continue on your journey. You bottled it, and turned victory into defeat, folded faster than superman on washing day, caved under the pressure..........those penalty point will live on for 3 years as a reminder of your shame.

Photek1976

lol

SteelyDanJalapeno

Yep, it wasnt even a lie had you of just gone into the car park.

There's nothing wrong with "changing your mind"

K.Flyer

Photek1976 wrote: »

I was about 100ft from the turn off left if not less, I wasn't far from it at all. I can accept the fine but it's odd that if I just kept up with a lie I'd not get points.

I think you will find that from the entrance to the car park to the start of the slip for turning left crossing the bus lane is actually 140 metres (450 feet) and given you hadn't reached the entrance to the car park yet, it was even further.

Photek1976

Cars merge into the bus lane at that car park. but thanks for the measurements. Congrats.

Effects

Photek1976 wrote: »

The judge would think I was driving without due consideration to other drivers cos I lied about my destination? Okay.

Sorry, I didn't think your plan was to call the Garda a liar in court and accuse him of giving you a fine for not showing due care and consideration just for lying to him.

I'm sure the Judge will totally side with you.

It just sounds like the Garda pushed further with what he can rightfully do for your inconsiderate driving.
More likely he just wants to scare you and you will only get a fine for the bus lane or nothing at all.

When I was younger I had three stops in a bus lane that never resulting in me getting the actual fine. Twice I did get fined. And once I used a similar excuse to yours, that I was turning into the estate just ahead to visit a friend. He let me go and I turned into the estate and parked up for ten minutes.

Guy:Incognito

Photek1976 wrote: »

Cars merge into the bus lane at that car park. but thanks for the measurements. Congrats.

Ah, the old "everyone else was breaking the law so I did too" defence. I've yet to see it fail in court.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Photek1976 wrote: »

Yeah looked at that list and it lists nothing to do with conversing with a Guard. I'll update this if I get the points. Thanks guys .

I think you misunderstood him. He's giving you the points for a driving offence, ie driving in the bus lane because you lied to him, your not getting points for lying.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

The Garda may well put down that he did a breath test on you for good measure as well to keep the enforcement numbers up, change your fine to a homicide and report you to Tusla to discredit you if you complain.

.......whats sauce for the goose.......

Photek1976

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Ah, the old "everyone else was breaking the law so I did too" defence. I've yet to see it fail in court.

Nope I was caught in the buslane, its not something I'd fight, its not a penalty point offence though I'd just fight the penalty points because they wouldnt be afixed to the same charge. Not that it matters but I wasn't speeding and indicated into the bus lane.

As a matter of recourse though I did fight a bus lane fine before and won cos the garda never showed up.

Photek1976

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

I think you misunderstood him. He's giving you the points for a driving offence, ie driving in the bus lane because you lied to him, your not getting points for lying.

Driving in the bus lane is not a penalty point offence.

He also literally said I'm getting them for lying.

osarusan

Is there anything at all that a Guard could have used to justify a penalty points offence in that situation?

If there is, that is what they would use as justification if it ever went to court, rather than saying it was punishment for lying.

Effects

osarusan wrote: »

If there is, that is what they would use as justification if it ever went to court, rather than saying it was punishment for lying.

That's what he did. He said he was going to give her points for not showing due care and consideration because she had lied.

I'd say he's just bluffing though.

Ash.J.Williams

Photek1976 wrote: »

Cars merge into the bus lane at that car park. but thanks for the measurements. Congrats.

And that is why the Garda was there.

osarusan

Effects wrote: »

That's what he did. He said he was going to give her points for not showing due care and consideration because she had lied.

I'd say he's just bluffing though.

If that bit will stand up in court, then that's all the guard will have to say.

deathtocaptcha

Photek1976 wrote: »

Driving in the bus lane is not a penalty point offence.

"Failure to comply with traffic lane markings" - 1 point fixed penalty, 3 points in court.

Effects

deathtocaptcha wrote: »

"Failure to comply with traffic lane markings" - 1 point fixed penalty, 3 points in court.

When did that come in?

_Brian

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

I think you misunderstood him. He's giving you the points for a driving offence, ie driving in the bus lane because you lied to him, your not getting points for lying.

I think this is the point here.
By admitting to lies he is applying the letter of the law regarding the motoring offence where if you had fessed up initially he MIGHT have been lenient.

Honestly, you put yourself in a poor position and I think Honestly if I were a guard I’d be pissed at you telling lies and stick it to you with points and a fine.

Going to court would be madness, you were and admitted to being in the bus lane when you shouldn’t have been, that has been established, a judge could easily double the points, probably right to as this Shiite shouldn’t be going to court.

RedorDead

Photek1976 wrote: »

I don't know if I will get them but he said I would.

I was stopped this morning heading for East Point on the Coast Road (Dublin) and went into bus lane early. He stopped me and asked where I was headed, there is a car park before turn off so I said car park. He looked at me incredulously and asked if I was actually going to East point and I said "yes, sorry about that" he asked why I lied and I said I didn't know.

Then he said usually its just a €60 fine but he's going to give me 2 points for not showing due care and consideration because I lied initially. I think that's a bit harsh, also the encounter lasted about 1 minute in full. Is he bullsh*tting or not? and if he's not surely I can fight it.

Out of curiosity - where did this garda pull you over? Asking for a erm... friend that uses that bus lane a little bit ....sometimes when the road is busy

antodeco

Driving in a bus lane has been an offence for a good few years!

K.Flyer

RedorDead wrote: »

Out of curiosity - where did this garda pull you over? Asking for a erm... friend that uses that bus lane a little bit ....sometimes when the road is busy

O.P. said that they had gone into the bus lane before the last entrance to the car park on the left, so approx 140 - 150m back from the left slip to turn for East Point.
A bit risky to be chancing it there considering Clontarf Garda Station is on the other side of the road.

RedorDead

K.Flyer wrote: »

O.P. said that they had gone into the bus lane before the last entrance to the car park on the left, so approx 140 - 150m back from the left slip to turn for East Point.
A bit risky to be chancing it there considering Clontarf Garda Station is on the other side of the road.

Sometimes that bus lane can be backed up even beyond the first car park entrance if you know the road so id prefer OPs clarification on whether it was as far back as stile road turn off or somewhere between the two.

whomitconcerns

I always found it faster to stay in the main driving lane there and force your way in where you are meant to merge. Used that road daily for years

GM228

deathtocaptcha wrote: »

"Failure to comply with traffic lane markings" - 1 point fixed penalty, 3 points in court.

This can't be used for bus lanes.

the_syco

Photek1976 wrote: »

I was stopped this morning heading for East Point on the Coast Road (Dublin) and went into bus lane early.

Ah, you're one of those people? Glad you got points!

Effects

People driving in bus lanes is far worse along fairview park and on as far as Ossory Road.

I counted eights cars in a row passing this morning, up on seven in a row yesterday.
Luckily I rarely drive into town in the morning, preferring to cycle. I would be driven demented otherwise. I don't see why this can't be policed with cameras.

NuMarvel

deathtocaptcha wrote: »

"Failure to comply with traffic lane markings" - 1 point fixed penalty, 3 points in court.

It's just a €60 fine with no penalty points, according to a "friend" (;)) of the OP of this thread from last year. And as far as I know, no new penalty points have been added since.

givyjoe

deathtocaptcha wrote: »

"Failure to comply with traffic lane markings" - 1 point fixed penalty, 3 points in court.

That's incorrect. There is a specific fine for being in a bus lane when its in operation. It's perfectly legal to drive in it when not during the hours of operation. The Guards do not have discretion to lob on penalty points for an offence that you didn't commit. Driving in Bus lane = fine only, not points.