Tenant from hell scaremongering

Ajsoprano

How often does this really happen?

Are there figures on overholding bad tenants that just won’t leave. Call me a conspiracy theorist but I reckon the numbers aren’t as high as most believe.

There’s probably as many bad landlords as there is tenants.

Do landlords class somebody that needs there washing machine fixed a bad tenant?

When you put 20 odd grand down on a mortgage then have the rest of your mortgage paid you end up getting a house when your mortgage is paid. Would I be right in saying that?

Surely that’s a good thing. A house in 20 years for 20 000 and a bit of management.
That a serious return over the 20 or so years.

amcalester

In 2016 rent arrears and/or overholding were the single biggest cause of complaint to the RTB with just under 1500 complaints.

doolox

You'd need a lot more than 20k to acquired a house to let.

The criteria are for 20% deposit and then, depending on the clients ability to pay you might get a loan for 80% of the value of the house but it is usually lower, meaning you have to come up with the remaining value. You could need another 5 - 10 K to refurbish and do up the house to standard although, tragically, this is not as important as it once was as any old rubbish will now attract high rents.

The big concern now is to keep the house within minimum legal standards such as safety of electrics, gas and plumbing and heating systems to avoid an accident to tenants with these systems. Style and appearance of furnishings is of little concern now.

The imposition of USC and PRSI on rental profits, the allowance of only 80% of the interest payable on the mortgage paid and the non allowance of LPT for tax purposes means in many cases Landlords have to earn and pay these taxes from other sources because the rent does not cover all the costs incurred, especially if the premises is in negative equity or the loan is at a high rate.

There is some relief for those lucky enough to be on a tracker and can keep on it and if their house has recovered its initial cost or was bought long enough ago to be have been cheap at the time before the first boom.

These are rare.

Graham

Ajsoprano wrote: »

How often does this really happen?

Are there figures on overholding bad tenants that just won’t leave. Call me a conspiracy theorist but I reckon the numbers aren’t as high as most believe.

In summary

You have no idea how often it happens
You have no idea what volumes it happens in
Whatever the figures are you think it's a conspiracy/scaremongering.

:rolleyes:

Ajsoprano

amcalester wrote: »

In 2016 rent arrears and/or overholding were the single biggest cause of complaint to the RTB with just under 1500 complaints.

That would have been during a homeless crisis where a sudden shift happened where landlords finished up tenancies and suddenly raised the prices. I was renting at the time and got moved from a house which was then on the market at 1800. It was a turbulent time and after searching as far as balbriggan I got lucky that a friend couldn’t afford his mortgage and he let me rent his house for a year while he moved to his parents.

I have since inherited a house and I’m thinking now with all this extra money I have I might get in on this gig. It’s not a great time to buy and I’m no financial wizard but I reckon saving now and buying at the next dip would be safer.

Surely it can’t all be maniacs just out of their mas gaf looking to run amuc.

If somebody overholds for a few months I’d just have to pay my own mortgage for a few months while it got sorted.
Would I really be hit with loads of taxes so that I couldn’t afford the mortgage.

Do people expect or usually make a profit after the mortgage is paid?

With a bit of luck I may end up with a few houses to leave my children.

Ajsoprano

Graham wrote: »

In summary

You have no idea how often it happens
You have no idea what volumes it happens in
Whatever the figures are you think it's a conspiracy/scaremongering.

:rolleyes:

I probably should have put a question mark after scaremongering

Mickiemcfist

Ajsoprano wrote: »

That would have been during a homeless crisis where a sudden shift happened where landlords finished up tenancies and suddenly raised the prices. I was renting at the time and got moved from a house which was then on the market at 1800. It was a turbulent time and after searching as far as balbriggan I got lucky that a friend couldn’t afford his mortgage and he let me rent his house for a year while he moved to his parents.

I have since inherited a house and I’m thinking now with all this extra money I have I might get in on this gig. It’s not a great time to buy and I’m no financial wizard but I reckon saving now and buying at the next dip would be safer.

Surely it can’t all be maniacs just out of their mas gaf looking to run amuc.

If somebody overholds for a few months I’d just have to pay my own mortgage for a few months while it got sorted.
Would I really be hit with loads of taxes so that I couldn’t afford the mortgage.

Do people expect or usually make a profit after the mortgage is paid?

With a bit of luck I may end up with a few houses to leave my children.

All depends what age you are & by extension how long you can get a mortgage for. I think BOi have a calculator for investment property mortgages (as distinct from primary residence ones) see how much your repayments will be.

See how much you can rent out said house for, take about 60% off (taxes, ongoing repairs, gaps in tenancy) if the remaining 40% of rental income covers your repayments you should be doing well.

Ajsoprano

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

All depends what age you are & by extension how long you can get a mortgage for. I think BOi have a calculator for investment property mortgages (as distinct from primary residence ones) see how much your repayments will be.

See how much you can rent out said house for, take about 60% off (taxes, ongoing repairs, gaps in tenancy) if the remaining 40% of rental income covers your repayments you should be doing well.

Thanks for that I honestly have little financial knowledge. Biggest loan I ever got was a €2000 credit union years ago.

I sometimes pretend to be illiterate when I have to fill out forms so the bank teller does them when I’m in there.

Dev84

There are ways of removing a non paying tenant. The worst thing you can do is go to the rtb.

Mickiemcfist

Ajsoprano wrote: »

Thanks for that I honestly have little financial knowledge. Biggest loan I ever got was a €2000 credit union years ago.

I sometimes pretend to be illiterate when I have to fill out forms so the bank teller does them when I’m in there.

Then to be honest you should talk to an independent financial advisor, maybe bring a close friend. Financially savvy people have ended up bankrupt by renting out houses as it's "easy money", so don't underestimate the difficulty of it.

pwurple

In my experience a lot of the younger people becoming tenants in the last 5 years are ... well, not set up for independant life. Generation snowflake are breaking my heart. I wouldn’t call them problem tenants, just 29 year old children.


In the last month, I have been phoned to
Change a lightbulb
Investigate a non working vacuum cleaner - dust collector needed to be emptied
4 times, locked themselves out.
Non working electric shower - switched off on the wall
Trip switch - they daisy chained extension leads and plugged 14 devices into one socket


There is no money in being a landlord at the moment and a lot of risk and work. Everything is set up against you legally.

I am hoping the situation rectifies itself long term, because I used to enjoy it when it was mutually beneficial. I enjoyed working with tenants providing a service. I charged a fair price, kept the places well maintained, and they were happy. That has turned into me getting screwed over in a rental freeze, taxed up to my eyeballs, making a loss on some units with tenants who look for help to tie their own shoelaces.

The_Conductor

Dev84 wrote: »

There are ways of removing a non paying tenant. The worst thing you can do is go to the rtb.

The *only* legal way to remove a tenant who decides to overhold and/or give up paying rent- is through the RTB. They take 6 weeks for an initial hearing- and if the tenant decides to play the system- which is setup to protect them at all costs- normally it takes 12-16 months to remove the tenant- however, if the landlord messes up a notification- it can take quite literally years. There is one case in this forum from yesterday- where a buyer is hanging around for *5* years as a tenant is overholding and won't pay rent- and the landlord has simply handed over the property to a receiver- who screwed up notifications- and its now on its second trip to the high court (despite the tenant not paying rent).

The system is setup to protect the tenant at all costs- regardless of what they do, or do not do (including whether or not they pay any rent at all)- and to automatically assume the landlord is in the wrong.

The_Conductor

Ajsoprano wrote: »

How often does this really happen?

Are there figures on overholding bad tenants that just won’t leave. Call me a conspiracy theorist but I reckon the numbers aren’t as high as most believe.

Officially, there are fewer than 1,600 cases of overholding tenants presented to the RTB in 2016. This is far and away the largest category of complaints. It is, however, certainly a vast underestimation of the extent of the problem- as landlords are actively encourgaged to pay-off overholding tenants to leave (aka- give them a financial bribe to leave the property). Threshold and other tenant charities actively encourage this- and suggest to tenants- based on how many properties a landlord has- and whether they are a private landlord- or a company- whether or not they are likely to be successful in extracting money- and how much is reasonable- before the landlord simply resorts to the formal legal route. Threshold are on record supplying this advice.

Ajsoprano wrote: »

There’s probably as many bad landlords as there is tenants.

In terms of absolute number of formal complaints- there are over twice as many complaints against tenants- as there are against landlords- and if you factor the number of landlords doing 'deals' (aka paying bribe money to tenants to leave) into the equation- which is incalculable- it may be as high as 5-6 times more tenants than landlords. The formal figure though- is a little over twice as many tenants than landlords.

Ajsoprano wrote: »

Do landlords class somebody that needs there washing machine fixed a bad tenant?

Absolutely not. Thats just a regular repair- that any tenant is totally entitled to have repaired in as expeditious a manner as possible. Things break. Thats life. A tenant should have a washing machine repaired/replaced within a couple of days. This is normal.

Ajsoprano wrote: »

When you put 20 odd grand down on a mortgage then have the rest of your mortgage paid you end up getting a house when your mortgage is paid. Would I be right in saying that?

20 grand? I'm not entirely sure what you imagine you're buying? Most lenders demand up to a 40% deposit from investors- given the regulatory environment they operate in. 20 grand may only be sufficient as a deposit on a property worth in the region of 50k (or depending on the lender- possibly as much as 100k). One way or the other- your 20k- is not sufficient to act as a deposit on a property you could actually let to a residential tenant- its simply a fraction of the amount you'd need. Also- while mortgage interest may be an allowable cost (up to 100% if a landlord takes a HAP tenant)- this is not repaying the mortgage- nor does it have any cognisance of the costs associated with running a property- or contingencies for when the tenant overholds or stops paying their rent.

Ajsoprano wrote: »

Surely that’s a good thing. A house in 20 years for 20 000 and a bit of management.
That a serious return over the 20 or so years.

If it were true- everyone would be doing it.
Its not true, its not achievable- and a current ROI on a residential investment is probably in the region of 6 to 7% (if you're lucky). There are far better, risk free, returns available out there. Several financial advisors at recent seminars have suggested that small scale investors (with less than 1 million in capital)- should steer clear of both residential and commercial property- and instead- look at risk free or risk assessable options- such as forestry.

Residential property- is probably the riskiest possible investment strategy out there- almost no-one has 20 year mortgages- and a deposit of 40% is the normal requirement from many lenders (given the risk profile of the sector- and the regulatory regime).

Teyla Emmagan

pwurple wrote:

In the last month, I have been phoned to
Change a lightbulb
Investigate a non working vacuum cleaner - dust collector needed to be emptied
4 times, locked themselves out.
Non working electric shower - switched off on the wall
Trip switch - they daisy chained extension leads and plugged 14 devices into one socket

OMG.

Mickiemcfist

The_Conductor wrote: »

Several financial advisors at recent seminars have suggested that small scale investors (with less than 1 million in capital)- should steer clear of both residential and commercial property- and instead- look at risk free or risk assessable options- such as forestry.

Residential property- is probably the riskiest possible investment strategy out there- almost no-one has 20 year mortgages- and a deposit of 40% is the normal requirement from many lenders (given the risk profile of the sector- and the regulatory regime).

Great post, though one issue about investment property that forestry or any other investment doesn't have is cheap finance, Tom dick & Harry don't have access to 300k to borrow against forestry so it's pretty hard to make significant money at it.

Browney7

The_Conductor wrote: »

Officially, there are fewer than 1,600 cases of overholding tenants presented to the RTB in 2016. This is far and away the largest category of complaints. It is, however, certainly a vast underestimation of the extent of the problem- as landlords are actively encourgaged to pay-off overholding tenants to leave (aka- give them a financial bribe to leave the property). Threshold and other tenant charities actively encourage this- and suggest to tenants- based on how many properties a landlord has- and whether they are a private landlord- or a company- whether or not they are likely to be successful in extracting money- and how much is reasonable- before the landlord simply resorts to the formal legal route. Threshold are on record supplying this advice.



In terms of absolute number of formal complaints- there are over twice as many complaints against tenants- as there are against landlords- and if you factor the number of landlords doing 'deals' (aka paying bribe money to tenants to leave) into the equation- which is incalculable- it may be as high as 5-6 times more tenants than landlords. The formal figure though- is a little over twice as many tenants than landlords.



Absolutely not. Thats just a regular repair- that any tenant is totally entitled to have repaired in as expeditious a manner as possible. Things break. Thats life. A tenant should have a washing machine repaired/replaced within a couple of days. This is normal.



20 grand? I'm not entirely sure what you imagine you're buying? Most lenders demand up to a 40% deposit from investors- given the regulatory environment they operate in. 20 grand may only be sufficient as a deposit on a property worth in the region of 50k (or depending on the lender- possibly as much as 100k). One way or the other- your 20k- is not sufficient to act as a deposit on a property you could actually let to a residential tenant- its simply a fraction of the amount you'd need. Also- while mortgage interest may be an allowable cost (up to 100% if a landlord takes a HAP tenant)- this is not repaying the mortgage- nor does it have any cognisance of the costs associated with running a property- or contingencies for when the tenant overholds or stops paying their rent.



If it were true- everyone would be doing it.
Its not true, its not achievable- and a current ROI on a residential investment is probably in the region of 6 to 7% (if you're lucky). There are far better, risk free, returns available out there. Several financial advisors at recent seminars have suggested that small scale investors (with less than 1 million in capital)- should steer clear of both residential and commercial property- and instead- look at risk free or risk assessable options- such as forestry.

Residential property- is probably the riskiest possible investment strategy out there- almost no-one has 20 year mortgages- and a deposit of 40% is the normal requirement from many lenders (given the risk profile of the sector- and the regulatory regime).

Risk free returns of 6 to 7% per annum? Where?

RTB report states 1494 cases for rent arrears/rent arrears and overholding and 553 for overholding. Do you honestly think 10000 to 12000 other tenancies have gone this way n the past year and not ended up in the RTB and were "bribed"? Forgive me if I take this piece of conjecture plucked from thin air with a pinch of salt.

Or do you mean of the 4837 actual disputes raised with the RTB - split 55% taken by tenants, 39% landlord and 2% third party (which correspond to 8195 types of dispute which is most likely due to landlords citing numerous things done by a delinquent tenant "overholding, damage, anti social, breach of obligations" whereas a tenant will likely be just seeking their deposit back - which is 1040).