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Will the TC shorten the PME?

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  • 19-02-2018 4:50pm
    #1
    Cookie_g
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭


    Just interested to hear people's points of view on this.

    Our principal is convinced that the PME will be shortened to 1 year within the next 18 months due to subject shortages.

    Do you agree/disagree?


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    #2
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    They should but i think they won't
    They've issued a press statement about teacher shortages and what they proposed a few years ago. Nothing about shortening the PME.
    Plus id imagine be there'd have to be a downgrading of status from masters to PME. Unless they tie teaching practice into year1 of 'work' (presumably at a lower pay).


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    #3
    Seannew1
    Registered Users Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Seannew1


    They definitely should. Although the people who spent 2 years doing the course aka yours truly and becoming financially crippled are going to look very stupid!!!


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    #4
    Cookie_g
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Cookie_g


    I think if someone has an advanced degree (Masters or PhD) there should definitely be a one year course for them to qualify for teaching credentials. I've never heard of any other situation where somebody with equal or higher qualifications is required to go back and do another of equal or lesser value. Ridiculous.


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    #5
    Seannew1
    Registered Users Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Seannew1


    Cookie_g wrote: »
    I think if someone has an advanced degree (Masters or PhD) there should definitely be a one year course for them to qualify for teaching credentials. I've never heard of any other situation where somebody with equal or higher qualifications is required to go back and do another of equal or lesser value. Ridiculous.

    I agree completely. I did an MA before going into the PME, so I have 2 masters and don't earn anything more. Rightly so, my European friends think I'm bonkers for doing this. Good old rip off republic.


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    #6
    Cookie_g
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Cookie_g


    Seannew1 wrote: »
    I agree completely. I did an MA before going into the PME, so I have 2 masters and don't earn anything more. Rightly so, my European friends think I'm bonkers for doing this. Good old rip off republic.

    Yep. I'd imagine there are people out there who would be willing to requalify to teach but are already paying for one advanced degree as it is. It also means they can't apply for any grands to help the painful financial process.


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    #7
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Cookie_g wrote: »
    I think if someone has an advanced degree (Masters or PhD) there should definitely be a one year course for them to qualify for teaching credentials. I've never heard of any other situation where somebody with equal or higher qualifications is required to go back and do another of equal or lesser value. Ridiculous.

    In fairness though prior masters or PhD is subject knowledge (unless it's in the education realm ). Very little of the PME has to do with subject knowledge. So to say a separate masters is equal to a PME or a PME is lesser than a PhD is incongruous.


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    #8
    Seannew1
    Registered Users Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Seannew1


    Cookie_g wrote: »
    Yep. I'd imagine there are people out there who would be willing to requalify to teach but are already paying for one advanced degree as it is. It also means they can't apply for any grands to help the painful financial process.

    The masters qualification allowance will never come back either. The fact they made the PME a level 9 gave them the perfect excuse to scrap it. And a masters in your subject can really enhance your teaching as it gives you a deeper knowledge of your subject. No there is no incentive as they won't give you a career break and like you said, people can't commit to them. Then the third level courses b*tch and moan that they are broke because nobody is doing postgraduate courses so they increase the cost of a teaching degree! It's a vicious circle.


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    #9
    Cookie_g
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Cookie_g


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    In fairness though prior masters or PhD is subject knowledge (unless it's in the education realm ). Very little of the PME has to do with subject knowledge. So to say a separate masters is equal to a PME or a PME is lesser than a PhD is incongruous.

    From talking to the PME students in our school most will say that they learning most of their "teaching content" in the first year and the thesis they have to do is a load of crock. Just something to make the course a Masters. If you've already done a research Masters or higher , you've already shown you have the skills and capabilities to research.


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    #10
    Noveight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,813 ✭✭✭Noveight


    I'm in my second year of the PME. So far this year I've completed 14 weeks of school placement (7 more to go) and have had one forty minute inspection.

    One inspection, during one lesson, over 14 weeks. It's a complete joke but will anything change? Doubt it.


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    #11
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Cookie_g wrote: »
    From talking to the PME students in our school most will say that they learning most of their "teaching content" in the first year and the thesis they have to do is a load of crock. Just something to make the course a Masters. If you've already done a research Masters or higher , you've already shown you have the skills and capabilities to research.

    The challenge isn't quite 'can you research' but 'can you research within your field and interact with the relevant literature and stakeholders'.
    I see where you're coming from though, but I wouldn't quite say the thesis is a load of crock, I've seen a number of PME theses and there's good work in there, but what you can engage with as a PME is very limited compared what you can engage with after a few years of teaching and allowed to fully use your school as a case study/involve students etc.
    + the wordcount on the PME is more than half the auld PME Thesis.

    I'd say the only Masters people will persue now post qualification is the Leadership and Management for promotion.


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    #12
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,423 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    How things have changed alright. I clocked up 3 masters along the way because they were interesting but now people are doing them because they feel they should. I don't hear of people on staff doing courses for their own benefit anymore.


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    #13
    doc_17
    Registered Users Posts: 6,876 ✭✭✭doc_17


    TheDriver wrote: »
    How things have changed alright. I clocked up 3 masters along the way because they were interesting but now people are doing them because they feel they should. I don't hear of people on staff doing courses for their own benefit anymore.

    I think given how our terms and conditions have changed since 2008 people don’t see any professional benefit to those courses. There isn’t any incentive to do them.


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    #14
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    TheDriver wrote: »
    How things have changed alright. I clocked up 3 masters along the way because they were interesting but now people are doing them because they feel they should. I don't hear of people on staff doing courses for their own benefit anymore.

    Education for the sheer enjoyment of learning!!!

    Get yer bag and baggage and get out. We'll have none of that :pac:


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    #15
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,423 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    I'll hang my head in shame except long hair will get in my face


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    #16
    Sir123
    Registered Users Posts: 311 ✭✭Sir123


    If they shorten it, I want half of my money back :D:D:D


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    #17
    mtoutlemonde
    Registered Users Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    Sir123 wrote: »
    If they shorten it, I want half of my money back :D:D:D

    Good luck with that!!!!


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    #18
    Noveight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,813 ✭✭✭Noveight


    Sir123 wrote: »
    If they shorten it, I want half of my money back :D:D:D

    The pair of us will march on Leinster House :D


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    #19
    RealJohn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    I don’t see any reason it couldn’t continue to be a Masters Degree over one year. While I was doing my one year H.Dip back in the day, many of my former classmates were doing a one year Masters Degree in a chemistry related area. There’s no particular need for a Masters to take two years.
    I’d add to that, the Masters I did subsequently took two years but was part time, two nights a week and a few weekend seminars so that’s only a year too really. I don’t see any reason the PME shouldn’t continue to be a Masters Degree but over one year. From what I hear, they could probably just push the whole thing into one year anyway without really changing the content. Might put them under a bit of pressure for teaching practice but that’s about it.

    If they did reduce it to one year again, they’d definitely better consider making reparations to those who were forced to spend two years on it. They probably can’t expect anything on things like costs of living but if I was in that boat and didn’t get half of my fees back (maybe in the form of tax credits - it would encourage graduates to stay in Ireland or come back if they’re gone), I’d be furious. Since the people who stupidly paid their water charges got their money back, the PMEs who were forced to do a second year for no good reason definitely should.


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    #20
    doc_17
    Registered Users Posts: 6,876 ✭✭✭doc_17


    If it does revert back there’ll me no refunds. No chance, just exactly who do you think you’re dealing with? A fair-minded and rational government who openly admit their errors and take swift steps to correct them?


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    #21
    RealJohn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    doc_17 wrote: »
    If it does revert back there’ll me no refunds. No chance, just exactly who do you think you’re dealing with? A fair-minded and rational government who openly admit their errors and take swift steps to correct them?
    It would actually make sense to offer to give it back as a tax credit though. That way, they only get it back if they’re working as teachers (because they could make it similar to the teacher’s flat rate allowance). It might go some way towards addressing the shortage. It could certainly be spun that way.


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    #22
    doc_17
    Registered Users Posts: 6,876 ✭✭✭doc_17


    RealJohn wrote: »
    It would actually make sense to offer to give it back as a tax credit though. That way, they only get it back if they’re working as teachers (because they could make it similar to the teacher’s flat rate allowance). It might go some way towards addressing the shortage. It could certainly be spun that way.

    Yeah. It it’s not about what makes sense or what’s fair. I was just speculating as to what would actually happen.


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