Hybrid/ EV car for 260km round trip per day

madmac187

Hi folks I'm looking into a newer car something around 20gs. I'm looking into a hybrid/ev car vs diesel. 220km motorway and 40km city. Is there an EV car out there, or hybrid or just stick with diesel. I was looking at a Lexus IS300H as a good possibility or back to diesel anyone any suggestions or do I need my head tested lol
Cheers for the help

goz83

madmac187 wrote: »

Hi folks I'm looking into a newer car something around 20gs. I'm looking into a hybrid/ev car vs diesel. 220km motorway and 40km city. Is there an EV car out there, or hybrid or just stick with diesel. I was looking at a Lexus IS300H as a good possibility or back to diesel anyone any suggestions or do I need my head tested lol
Cheers for the help

Price point is too low to find you an EV to cover that distance without stopping for a charge. As much as I hate to say it, Diesel would be the better option for that distance on the motorway unless you pull out a calculator and start doing the sums on increasing the budget to get a BMW 13 Rex, or a Tesla Model 3. The fuel savings would be quite significant and would definitely offset the cost of diesel.

madmac187

goz83 wrote: »

Price point is too low to find you an EV to cover that distance without stopping for a charge. As much as I hate to say it, Diesel would be the better option for that distance on the motorway unless you pull out a calculator and start doing the sums on increasing the budget to get a BMW 13 Rex, or a Tesla Model 3. The fuel savings would be quite significant and would definitely offset the cost of diesel.

And the Lexus ?

Casati

madmac187 wrote: »

And the Lexus ?

It will be at least 1 if not 2 litre’s 100km worse than a good diesel, plus it runs on petrol that costs 10 cent more per litre

Can you charge at work? If so then you could do that commute in a Leaf

zilog_jones

There are a couple of other threads here about the IS300h. Seems like a good choice if you want to get away from diesels, but you're talking about 40-50 MPG (depending on driving conditions) and I suspect with mostly motorway driving it'll be at the lower end of that - you'll need to look at total cost of ownership to see if makes sense for you. I suspect maintenance costs will be significantly lower than a diesel if you're planning on owning long-term.

As others have said, there aren't any EVs within your budget that will do that range.

260 Kms per day ? not without 2 fast charges per day.

Your only 2 option here in the EV world would be Ioniq, faster charging at fast chargers, 200 odd kms range but I warn you that having relied on DC charging daily for 9 months I do not recommend it.

Next would be the i3 Rex which will cost more than 20 K probably and have the older battery so you're talking maybe 100 - 120 Kms pure electric then the rest at 40 odd mpg.

With the Rex you can turn on the generator form 75% and use the engine for most of your motorway driving, then use the battery for slower routed/city or a blend. And charge on DC if you want or not if you don't.

The Rex was not designed for such mileage though every day.

The newer 33 Kwh Rex will do 150-170 Kms electric and maybe more in warmer weather. And then Rex for the Rest or fast charge.

I would suggest hybrid for now 260 Kms is 20 km short of my total commute and I'd go nuts having to do 260 Kms so you don't really want to be stopping for charging unless you need a rest on the way.

You haven't told us your route ?

Prius is another one, good reliable car for the mileage you do, one of the best cars ever built, for such mileage I'd go the hybrid route over diesel , diesel will have higher maintenance.

If you really want save up for a 2nd hand Model S 85 Kwh and keep it for years. That' probably the only EV that would do that trip on one charge. With plenty to spare or perhaps the 75 Kwh. Though they will cost a lot more than 20 K but you stand to save a fortune over diesel/petrol with your mileage.

Work charging and Ioniq should do the job. But you won't find one with your budget yet I don't think. Even if you have work charging you got to think where will you be working in the future.

madmac187

I drive about 110km each way on M7 from laois to Dublin 20km in city each way. I have heard the older Prius will run on petrol only when on motorway when new one will flick between engine and electric motor with the CVT. I was thinking of one of these as an alternative too. Budget can shift a bit

bp_me

If you worked close enough to any of the AC charge points then an EV could charge while you are in work and you wouldnt be reliant on the DC chargers.

Prius "might" get close to diesel economy but a new prius also breaks your budget.

Prius runs mainly on petrol yes and then you save in town and slower driving.

Plug in Prius has a tiny battery so about 40 km range ev.

Prius will save on maintenance and be ultra reliable over a diesel.

I would Not Rely on public charging believe me I did it and it gets old fast. It wouldn’t be as bad if there were multiple chargers on site and then ac street chargers you’ll have to pay for parking in Dublin.

What do you drive now ?

Prius runs mainly on petrol yes and then you save in town and slower driving.

Plug in Prius has a tiny battery so about 40 km range ev.

Prius will save on maintenance and be ultra reliable over a diesel.

I would Not Rely on public charging believe me I did it and it gets old fast. It wouldn’t be as bad if there were multiple chargers on site and then ac street chargers you’ll have to pay for parking in Dublin.

What do you drive now ?

thierry14

2017 i3 rex would do it on a small bit of petrol

They are 30k

You'll be out of warranty fast at your milage though and they are state of the art, not sure I'd like one out of warranty.

Financially your better off driving a reliable banger for a year and then get a 19 60kWh Hyundai with unlimited 5 year mileage warranty

That would be cheap motoring then

Shefwedfan

Audi A6.....perfect for what you are talking about!

Beautiful car and really lovely to drive. A 2 ltr new model you should be able to pick up for that money

Even the older model, a decent one with Audi service history are going cheap due to the influx of UK cars.....I was getting circa 4-5ltr/100km when spinning on motorway. I was doing a 200km daily commute with about 20km in town as well. I moved then and was only city driving so swapped to electric

For your mileage electric is a no go with the current range, especially in the price range you are talking about

With hybrid you get the MPG out of a petrol in town that you would see from a diesel on motorway. Very rough but that will give you idea. For lots of motorway driving hybrid is not the answer

What’s your current car op?

KCross

madmac187 wrote: »

I drive about 110km each way on M7 from laois to Dublin 20km in city each way. I have heard the older Prius will run on petrol only when on motorway when new one will flick between engine and electric motor with the CVT. I was thinking of one of these as an alternative too. Budget can shift a bit

Any chance of you getting access to work charging?

If you got that you would have EV choices.

The Ioniq should manage 110km motorway and 20km city without stopping. Fully charge at work and return home.

The new 40kWh Leaf will also manage it the same.
The old 30kWh Leaf might manage it too but it would probably be tight if you have a heavy right foot.

The i3 Rex, as Mad_Lad mentions, is also a good option.... might be beyond your €20k budget though.


With the length of your commute and the fuel savings that EV will give you, you should put some serious thought into increasing your budget. It will pay for itself.
It looks like you are doing 60k+ km's per year just for your commute.

That will cost around €700 in electricity in a BEV. Half that if you have free work charging.

On a frugal petrol/diesel delivering 5l/100km(57mpg) that same commute would cost you €3900 @ €1.30/ltr.

If you spend an extra €10k now to increase your budget and you have free work charging it will pay for itself in under 3yrs. The savings beyond that are in your back pocket.

If you have no chance of work charging then forget all the above!

Shefwedfan

KCross wrote: »

Any chance of you getting access to work charging?

If you got that you would have EV choices.

The Ioniq should manage 110km motorway and 20km city without stopping. Fully charge at work and return home.

The new 40kWh Leaf will also manage it the same.
The old 30kWh Leaf might manage it too but it would probably be tight if you have a heavy right foot.

The i3 Rex, as Mad_Lad mentions, is also a good option.... might be beyond your €20k budget though.


With the length of your commute and the fuel savings that EV will give you, you should put some serious thought into increasing your budget. It will pay for itself.
It looks like you are doing 60k+ km's per year just for your commute.

That will cost around €700 in electricity in a BEV. Half that if you have free work charging.

On a frugal petrol/diesel delivering 5l/100km(57mpg) that same commute would cost you €3900 @ €1.30/ltr.

If you spend an extra €10k now to increase your budget and you have free work charging it will pay for itself in under 3yrs. The savings beyond that are in your back pocket.

If you have no chance of work charging then forget all the above!

I think at the moment for long distance driving the electric car is not a runner. Give it 12 months and a couple of new cars will be available which will give better options.

The guy doing 200+km a day in a diesel it not the problem, it is the thousands of people doing 20-40km a day in diesel that is the issue.

zilog_jones

madmac187 wrote: »

I have heard the older Prius will run on petrol only when on motorway when new one will flick between engine and electric motor with the CVT.

There's nothing fundamentally different with the new Prius (assuming you're not talking about the plug-in which is €37k), it's just significantly more efficient. They are series-parallel hybrids, so there are various situations where the petrol engine and electric motors can be working independently or at the same time. The petrol engine on its own is very efficient but not very powerful, so when you need power it will use the combined power of both, e.g. overtaking on a motorway.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

For lots of motorway driving hybrid is not the answer

This is mostly true, but not for the 4th gen Prius (2016-) - it will easily do 60 MPG on motorways. But you'll have a hard time finding any within €20k.

I have a 2012 Prius Plug-in (UK import, wasn't sold here), I get about 15-16 km EV range which may not seem like much but suits my inner city commute. I'll get around 65 MPG on a Cork-Limerick trip with a full charge (35-50% EV mode depending on traffic), but only about 10km of that is motorway. I get more like 50 MPG on all-motorway driving (e.g. Cork-Belfast) - again the new Prius is much better at that kind of driving.

KCross

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I think at the moment for long distance driving the electric car is not a runner. Give it 12 months and a couple of new cars will be available which will give better options.

The guy doing 200+km a day in a diesel it not the problem, it is the thousands of people doing 20-40km a day in diesel that is the issue.

Sure, I agree.

However, for the OP its not actually "long distance" though(130km), IF he has work charging. No work charging then he has to wait for the 60kWh+ cars if he wants an EV to do that.

Shefwedfan

KCross wrote: »

Sure, I agree.

However, for the OP its not actually "long distance" though(130km), IF he has work charging. No work charging then he has to wait for the 60kWh+ cars if he wants an EV to do that.

The issue I would see is what happens if work charger is out? or another few people in office get electric cars? suddenly you have to rely on public chargers. His/her office will not be able to show preference to employees

If he invests in car and suddenly cannot use charging all day then he has made investment which is possible useless to him/her

Really I would see work charging as a top up and should not be used as a requirement to get home.

I know one of our offices has work charging and they had issues as people arrived with nothing left in battery and expected to plug their car in for the day when other people wanted to use as well.

KCross

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The issue I would see is what happens if work charger is out? or another few people in office get electric cars? suddenly you have to rely on public chargers. His/her office will not be able to show preference to employees

If he invests in car and suddenly cannot use charging all day then he has made investment which is possible useless to him/her

Really I would see work charging as a top up and should not be used as a requirement to get home.

I know one of our offices has work charging and they had issues as people arrived with nothing left in battery and expected to plug their car in for the day when other people wanted to use as well.

Yea, true. It will be a personal thing that only he can answer based on the circumstances of his workplace. Maybe he's the boss!

The €3k+/year in fuel savings is a motivator though!

Shefwedfan

KCross wrote: »

Yea, true. It will be a personal thing that only he can answer based on the circumstances of his workplace. Maybe he's the boss!

The €3k+/year in fuel savings is a motivator though!

100% agree on the savings. I have save circa €1,200 this year on fuel by swapping to electric. That is with 99.99% charging at home.

The saving are great but I still take my diesel on days when I feel I am pushing the electric car. I do not want to reply on public charging or even work chargers to get home.

KCross

Shefwedfan wrote: »

100% agree on the savings. I have save circa €1,200 this year on fuel by swapping to electric. That is with 99.99% charging at home.

The saving are great but I still take my diesel on days when I feel I am pushing the electric car. I do not want to reply on public charging or even work chargers to get home.

At €3k/yr I'd happily switch in his case. If it didn't work out due to over subscription to the charger at work or it being regularly out of service etc then you can always switch back to ICE. He'd be still quids in.

260 Kms is an awful long commute to depend on public or work charging.

When our work charge points failed they were not very quick to get them fixed but lucky now we have 8 on one site alone and 4 on another and 1 22 Kw on another new part of the campus that doesn't work yet.

If the OP had work charging changes jobs then he's snookered.

If he were to think about EV then he needs to think about battery degradation, he's doing 62,000 Kms a year just for work FFS.

A 24 Kwh Leaf is out, not enough range charging on DC is too slow.

30 KWh Leaf charges faster on DC and about 140-170 Kms range winter Sumer, average speeds.

28 Kwh Ioniq 170-200 Kms charges faster again and has battery heater for cold weather which allows it to charge a lot faster than a cold leaf battery.

40 Kwh Zoe, charges slower than Ioniq longer range driving slower up to 230-280 Kms winter Sumer, but it's a slow car to accelerate.

40 Kwh Leaf again 220-280 Kms winter/summer driving slower but again, cold hampers charging speeds and heat also, it heats up fast and throttles charging speed. But it also has potential for longer range and is a lot faster than Zoe.

40 Kwh Leaf and Zoe are out of budget but Ioniq you might have to fork up 5 extra k but for the driving you're doing that would be a massive saving.

Over 3 years you'd clock up 187,000 Kms and this is only for work and you do not know what condition the battery would be in by then.

OP you'd be talking getting a brand new car , new battery but it would be worthless after 3 years.

If I were you I'd take an ioniq for a test drive on your commute and see how you get on.

The only Ev at this time apart from Model S that can do this in one trip is the BMW i3 Rex, the 33 Kwh is going to be expensive, 150-170-180 Kms Winter-Summer but the generator takes care of the rest or charge on route if you want and if a charger is in use, ask them how long they'll be and if it's going to take too long just drive on on petrol.

i3 battery is holding up pretty well due to the battery having thermal management.

a 40 Kwh Leaf would be got cheaper and if you slow down a bit has potential to drive about what 200-220 Kms at 120 Kph ? you would probably get away with 20 mins charging or less. Perhaps there's a charger near you that you can go to at lunch ?

You really got to take a few on test drive on your commute to experience for yourself. But 20K budget is too low and you're well beyond PCP mileage but the savings on Diesel/Petrol would be massive.

A full charge in a 40 Kwh Leaf on night electricity would cost about 2.66 for a range of about 220-280 Kms or 13.30 for a week charging at home. Beat that in your current car, public charging is free for now and that's arriving home with an empty battery which you probably won't do.

I see Ioniqs on carzone for 25K you might be able to haggle them down a bit.