Tapping into storm water soil pipe

randombar

Hi All,

I need to put an outside tap in on the shed and I've found a storm water soil pipe underneath as shown in the pic linked:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zc27vjedqv5bcvk/Screenshot%202018-02-18%2020.20.41.png?dl=0

Pipe is going to a soak away.

I want to put a drain in and I'm wondering what's the best option, I'm guessing there is some kind of way of tapping into a drain like this without having to unearth the whole lot.

I'm also wondering about an S bend, presume that goes on top of whatever "tap in" goes onto the soil pipe.

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks,
Gary

my3cents

I've just given up on a really long post about how to do this which got far to complicated but will follow up if you reply.

Essentially you have to dig up a bit more of the pipe and you will need to be able to cleanly cut it in two places so you can fit a T piece joint (90 or 45 degree). You need to be able to get under the pipe a few inches and to be able to clean the pipe ends, debur the cuts surfaces and if possible chamfer the cut edge on the outside (that can make making the joint much easier).

You need to use a lubricant on the joints and if every thing is clean they will slip on quite easily. You may be able to use a junction with a socket and a plain pipe end but you often need more room than just the lenght of the socket if you can't lift the pipe slightly. The trick is you use a repair joiner that slips all the way over the pipe first and then pull it back over the pipe side of the joiner to make the final joint.

The problem is having done that I'm not sure you will have room for a U bend (gully trap) or that the pipe is deep enough to allow you to fit one?

If the flow is from left to right in the picture and you don't mind a bit more digging then you'll have more room to put the gully where you want it if you make the joint a bit further to the right where there are still flags and then put the gully trap running along the wall. Still might have a problem with the pipe run not being deep enough?

randombar

my3cents wrote: »

I've just given up on a really long post about how to do this which got far to complicated but will follow up if you reply.

Essentially you have to dig up a bit more of the pipe and you will need to be able to cleanly cut it in two places so you can fit a T piece joint (90 or 45 degree). You need to be able to get under the pipe a few inches and to be able to clean the pipe ends, debur the cuts surfaces and if possible chamfer the cut edge on the outside (that can make making the joint much easier).

You need to use a lubricant on the joints and if every thing is clean they will slip on quite easily. You may be able to use a junction with a socket and a plain pipe end but you often need more room than just the lenght of the socket if you can't lift the pipe slightly. The trick is you use a repair joiner that slips all the way over the pipe first and then pull it back over the pipe side of the joiner to make the final joint.

The problem is having done that I'm not sure you will have room for a U bend (gully trap) or that the pipe is deep enough to allow you to fit one?

If the flow is from left to right in the picture and you don't mind a bit more digging then you'll have more room to put the gully where you want it if you make the joint a bit further to the right where there are still flags and then put the gully trap running along the wall. Still might have a problem with the pipe run not being deep enough?

That's brilliant, thanks very much for that. That repair joiner makes sense. More work but the right way to go. I'm thinking it won't be deep enough all right but I don't have a problem building up a bit of a concrete drain around it as I think it would need something wider that the square anyway. Did some of those type of joints before with the washing up liquid.:D

_Brian

https://youtu.be/WxRN9-Y3eZ8

I’ve done this before but without the custom sleeves he has there.

We cut a section of wavin and used it similar to the sleeve with two jubilee clips securing it. It has a small gap but we covered it with a piece of dpc membrane, worked perfectly.

randombar

my3cents wrote: »

I've just given up on a really long post about how to do this which got far to complicated but will follow up if you reply.

Essentially you have to dig up a bit more of the pipe and you will need to be able to cleanly cut it in two places so you can fit a T piece joint (90 or 45 degree). You need to be able to get under the pipe a few inches and to be able to clean the pipe ends, debur the cuts surfaces and if possible chamfer the cut edge on the outside (that can make making the joint much easier).

You need to use a lubricant on the joints and if every thing is clean they will slip on quite easily. You may be able to use a junction with a socket and a plain pipe end but you often need more room than just the lenght of the socket if you can't lift the pipe slightly. The trick is you use a repair joiner that slips all the way over the pipe first and then pull it back over the pipe side of the joiner to make the final joint.

The problem is having done that I'm not sure you will have room for a U bend (gully trap) or that the pipe is deep enough to allow you to fit one?

If the flow is from left to right in the picture and you don't mind a bit more digging then you'll have more room to put the gully where you want it if you make the joint a bit further to the right where there are still flags and then put the gully trap running along the wall. Still might have a problem with the pipe run not being deep enough?

Would a bottle gully do the same thing as the gully trap?

my3cents

GaryCocs wrote: »

Would a bottle gully do the same thing as the gully trap?

If you can find one to fit the pipe thats fine I was just looking here on the wavin website as they have pictures of all the commonly available fittings, however they are not the only manufacturer.

Edit> What I have done in similar cases is pop down the local builders merchants and ask if I can make up the fittings to see if I can get them to fit because I have an awkward job. At home here I have something similar where I couldn't fit a normal trap but made one up out of 3 90 degree bends.

randombar

I'll have a look in Cork Builder providers so and see what they have. It looks like I would need one less connection too (the 45).

Tefral

You can buy a wavin 110mm saddle fitting. You just cut a slot out of the top of the drain in that location smaller than the saddle and glue the saddle on the top with Tec 7 or pipe adhesive. Would save you digging and messing about with joiners.

Edit: Found the link
https://www.wavin.com/en-ie/Catalogue/Rainwater-Stormwater/Subsurface-Conveyance/110-160mm-Drain-Pipes-OsmaDrain/PVC-U-Sewer-Square-Saddle-90deg-9x110

my3cents

Tefral wrote: »

You can buy a wavin 110mm saddle fitting. You just cut a slot out of the top of the drain in that location smaller than the saddle and glue the saddle on the top with Tec 7 or pipe adhesive. Would save you digging and messing about with joiners.

Edit: Found the link
https://www.wavin.com/en-ie/Catalogue/Rainwater-Stormwater/Subsurface-Conveyance/110-160mm-Drain-Pipes-OsmaDrain/PVC-U-Sewer-Square-Saddle-90deg-9x110

Did you find a price for that fitting? I have a notion I tried to get one once and gave up when I was quoted some astronomical price but might have been the builders merchants couldn't be bothered with a special order so tried to put me off?

Tefral

my3cents wrote: »

Did you find a price for that fitting? I have a notion I tried to get one once and gave up when I was quoted some astronomical price but might have been the builders merchants couldn't be bothered with a special order so tried to put me off?

Jesus you could be right. just from a bit of googling https://www.mcmahons.ie/sewer-saddle-90-degree-225x160mm

Thats for a 160mm so the 110mm would be cheaper (not by a whole lot though id imagine)

Still somewhere in the region of 90 euro id say.

:eek:

randombar

Tefral wrote: »

Jesus you could be right. just from a bit of googling https://www.mcmahons.ie/sewer-saddle-90-degree-225x160mm

Thats for a 160mm so the 110mm would be cheaper (not by a whole lot though id imagine)

Still somewhere in the region of 90 euro id say.

:eek:

Yikes, I might just try and get a good saw

listermint

DONT but that fitting from mcmahons, they are crazy expensive. Look up Goodwins hardware, lucan or mulhuddard . I got various junctions (non wavin brand) there for less than half the price of the wavin stuff. Irish made (cork) I would not buy that stuff its overpriced nonsense for what it is.

Goodwins had way better prices for sewer ware than i had found anywhere else tbh.

Tefral

listermint wrote: »

DONT but that fitting from mcmahons, they are crazy expensive. Look up Goodwins hardware, lucan or mulhuddard . I got various junctions (non wavin brand) there for less than half the price of the wavin stuff. Irish made (cork) I would not buy that stuff its overpriced nonsense for what it is.

Goodwins had way better prices for sewer ware than i had found anywhere else tbh.

Goodwins dont have the saddle on their website but your right, they have serious deals for the sewer connections and AJ's. Even better than I can get off my normal suppliers for trade prices. I spent 300 over the last week with them buying my sewerage connections.

randombar

Prices do look great:

https://www.goodwins.ie/products/110mm-4-sewer-pipe-repair-collar-0030502.html?filter_set[]=12,59,519
https://www.goodwins.ie/products/adjustable-gully-trap-and-grid-for-110mm-4-pipe-0030640.html?filter_set[]=12,62,525
https://www.goodwins.ie/products/110mm-4-t-90-degree-branch-3-socket-0030505.html?filter_set[]=12,59,520

Waiting to see if they have something like this:

https://www.ie.screwfix.com/floplast-d515-underground-bottle-gully-square-lid.html?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=CPC&utm_campaign=Shopping&gclid=Cj0KCQiAiKrUBRD6ARIsADS2OLnLEkEEAtmTJfgNOXHB-fVQBWIkI_UlypQThX7LHGKPFNN8HXl0R6oaAoQbEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

jack of all

GaryCocs wrote: »

Prices do look great:

https://www.goodwins.ie/products/110mm-4-sewer-pipe-repair-collar-0030502.html?filter_set[]=12,59,519
https://www.goodwins.ie/products/adjustable-gully-trap-and-grid-for-110mm-4-pipe-0030640.html?filter_set[]=12,62,525
https://www.goodwins.ie/products/110mm-4-t-90-degree-branch-3-socket-0030505.html?filter_set[]=12,59,520

Waiting to see if they have something like this:

https://www.ie.screwfix.com/floplast-d515-underground-bottle-gully-square-lid.html?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=CPC&utm_campaign=Shopping&gclid=Cj0KCQiAiKrUBRD6ARIsADS2OLnLEkEEAtmTJfgNOXHB-fVQBWIkI_UlypQThX7LHGKPFNN8HXl0R6oaAoQbEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Goodwins are very cheap for those alright, one to remember!

listermint

This is an easy fix and chip.

Dig out a small bit more cut the pipe

Put this in

https://www.goodwins.ie/products/110mm-4-t-90-degree-branch-3-socket-0030505.html?filter_set

The put this on top

https://www.goodwins.ie/products/adjustable-gully-hopper-spare-part-with-grid-0030646.html?filter_set[]=12,62,525

That's a tenner spent and a gully hooper into the drain.

my3cents

listermint wrote: »

This is an easy fix and chip.

Dig out a small bit more cut the pipe

Put this in

https://www.goodwins.ie/products/110mm-4-t-90-degree-branch-3-socket-0030505.html?filter_set

The put this on top

https://www.goodwins.ie/products/adjustable-gully-hopper-spare-part-with-grid-0030646.html?filter_set[]=12,62,525

That's a tenner spent and a gully hooper into the drain.

How?

Edit> Have you ever tried to do what you are suggesting. How does a fitting that needs to slide onto the pipe manage to slide onto one pipe that is fixed in the ground when there won't even be room to present it squarely and then magically make a joint at the other end?

randombar

listermint wrote: »

This is an easy fix and chip.

Dig out a small bit more cut the pipe

Put this in

https://www.goodwins.ie/products/110mm-4-t-90-degree-branch-3-socket-0030505.html?filter_set

The put this on top

https://www.goodwins.ie/products/adjustable-gully-hopper-spare-part-with-grid-0030646.html?filter_set[]=12,62,525

That's a tenner spent and a gully hooper into the drain.

Thanks for that, the problem is there's no sbend/bottle gully for blocking smells etc.

Tefral

GaryCocs wrote: »

Thanks for that, the problem is there's no sbend/bottle gully for blocking smells etc.

You dont need that for storm drainage.

The gullys are there as a water trap for foul drainage. Storm and Sewer drainage shouldn't be in the same pipes.

Gullys however are handy as leaves or dirt enter the system, they settle to the bottom of the gully and you can just put your hand in and take them out.

M.T.D

Just for clarification op title says - Tapping into storm water soil pipe

I always referred to pipe from sinks and toilet as soil pipe
and pipe taking water from roof, driveway as storm water pipe
and understood that grey water should go into soil pipe only
as storm water can end up directly into streams with no treatment, so should not have detergent from sinks washing machines etc. going in to it.

Tefral

M.T.D wrote: »

as storm water can end up directly into streams with no treatment,.

Jesus really? I never knew that, any documents I've seen over the years always have some treatment of storm water before entering a water course, either through a stone medium or the overflow from a soak pit.

This is in relation to houses now. I've seen land drainage pipes, piped directly to streams

my3cents

Tefral wrote: »

Jesus really? I never knew that, any documents I've seen over the years always have some treatment of storm water before entering a water course, either through a stone medium or the overflow from a soak pit.

This is in relation to houses now. I've seen land drainage pipes, piped directly to streams

I don't think any storm water collected in drains is allowed directly into streams and rivers but that doesn't stop builders doing it even on new builds.

M.T.D

Remember sewage treatment can mean as little as chop it up and pump it somewhere.

Raw sewage entering water in 44 places around Ireland Irish times October last year

So what classes as "treatment" for storm water is...?

my3cents

For the OP and anyone else that hasn't done this before and to answer my "How" question above here is the official line......

Note that in the demonstration its a lot easier than it is working in a small hole in the ground and that his pipes have a lot of movement in them which you don't have with pipes in the ground unless you uncover them all around for a meter or more either side of the join. Its also possible to move the slip joint further down the pipe allowing you a bit more room to work however that can make it harder to move the slip joint back. Its also possible to do without the second pipe if you have enough movement in the pipes to get the branch fitting on within its own length of cut pipe (less the joint length).

Then the more bodgey way of doing it.....

That video has some good advice on cutting the pipes square.

listermint

Is this just an outside tap, draining into a storm drain ? Or is it actually grey water draining into the storm drain ?

There is a clear difference, Sinks Baths Toilets and showers should be in soil only.

and outside tap having a run off into the storm shouldnt be a problem unless your pouring grey waste down it for cleaning purposes.

randombar

So I picked up a 110mm saddle fitting in Cork Builders for 15 and a bottle gully for 19.

Happy days!

Now I fit it all together dry and see how it looks.

randombar

Doesn't look too bad, bit higher than I was hoping but will build up with concrete.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qlb2myt6vbm0e17/Screenshot%202018-02-20%2021.17.10.png?dl=0

listermint

Any room to cut height off that elbow ? even with concrete looks a bit high.

randombar

listermint wrote: »

Any room to cut height off that elbow ? even with concrete looks a bit high.

I think I can take about 3 inches off the elbow . . . hopefully . . . what's that saying again, cut it first and see??

Padjeo

Hi randombar, just wondering where you got the 110mm saddle connection in cork as I tried mcmahons and goodwills and they had none.!did yours work well. Mine is deep and don’t have space to put in a full connector without a lot of digging and cutting concrete.

thanks again

randombar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120934112#Comment_120934112

Cork builder providers at a guess? been a while but usually there.