Minimum stocking rate.

gr8 m8

Hello,

I am after taking on a full time job and I'm struggling to run the farm beside it.

I have been thinking of cutting back on stock numbers but obviously don't want to loose any of my payments which includes the SFP, Disadvantage area and GLAS.

So I looked up the required minimum stocking rate and was surprised when I saw reference to 0.15 LU/ha.

Let's say that I have 100 acres which is 40 ha, does that mean that I only need about 7-10 cows on my land or am I missing something?

Any insight is appreciated. Thank you.

Bass Reeves

gr8 m8 wrote: »

Hello,

I am after taking on a full time job and I'm struggling to run the farm beside it.

I have been thinking of cutting back on stock numbers but obviously don't want to loose any of my payments which includes the SFP, Disadvantage area and GLAS.

So I looked up the required minimum stocking rate and was surprised when I saw reference to 0.15 LU/ha.

Let's say that I have 100 acres which is 40 ha, does that mean that I only need about 7-10 cows on my land or am I missing something?

Any insight is appreciated. Thank you.

.15 LU X 40 =6 full units. You have to maintain a minimum annual stocking rate of 1.5LU for 12 months and also maintain 1.5 units for 7 consecutive months.

11X2year old bullocks for 7 months would also fulfill the requirement

So 6 cows fulltime or

gr8 m8

Hello,

Just to clarify, is it 0.15 or 1.5 LU/ha?

sea12

gr8 m8 wrote: »

Hello,

Just to clarify, is it 0.15 or 1.5 LU/ha?

0.15

TPF2012

0.15 LU/ha

kollegeknight

So my mother has 30 ha. She only needs 5 cows to claim all her payments?

.15 x 30 = 4.5.

gr8 m8

kollegeknight wrote: »

So my mother has 30 ha. She only needs 5 cows to claim all her payments?

.15 x 30 = 4.5.

By my understanding that seems to be correct!

TwoOldBoots

Welcome to the sofa farming club of Ireland where you just collect money from the EU.

Bass Reeves

kollegeknight wrote: »

So my mother has 30 ha. She only needs 5 cows to claim all her payments?

.15 x 30 = 4.5.

Yes and No. While an average 5 cows for the full year will collect the payments you must also fulfill the 5 cows for 7 consecutive months. Some people that stock at the exact rate get caught if an animal dies and is not replaced before it is removed from your herd number. To avoid this most lads stock at slightly above this say in your case at 7 cows.

There is a bit of abuse of the system where some farmers renting land are not getting the maps and either landowner keeps a few cattle on part of the land or renter puts a few cattle into landowner name to fulfill the minimum stocking level. It is one thing the eye in the sky should be used to sort out.

BigSteaks

gr8 m8 wrote: »

Hello,

I am after taking on a full time job and I'm struggling to run the farm beside it.

I have been thinking of cutting back on stock numbers but obviously don't want to loose any of my payments which includes the SFP, Disadvantage area and GLAS.

So I looked up the required minimum stocking rate and was surprised when I saw reference to 0.15 LU/ha.

Let's say that I have 100 acres which is 40 ha, does that mean that I only need about 7-10 cows on my land or am I missing something?

Any insight is appreciated. Thank you.

Its .15 for 7 months. So .15 * 40 = 6. However a cow over 2 years is 1.0 units. So 6 cows for the years will see you through. 10 cows and you will be laughing all the way to the bank. Sucklers are a money losing game so no point throwing it away if getting it handy.

early_riser

Would you not lease out the land instead of running a couple of cows over large area of ground!!

TPF2012

early_riser wrote:

Would you not lease out the land instead of running a couple of cows over large area of ground!!

What would you reasonably expect for leasing marginal land in the West?

kollegeknight

early_riser wrote: »

Would you not lease out the land instead of running a couple of cows over large area of ground!!

Nobody to lease in our area. Land is so wet the can barely get silage off the meadows.

I’m planning on reducing the cows from 14 to 8 until end of beef genomics. And see how that goes. Land is so wet and bad, I would not change system- the cows know their way around.

When glas is up on the bog, I might try plant a bit of it and move glas around the house instead.

Between work, oh expecting second child, building house and the mother has been hard work since dad died, I’m way over stretched and am just wrecked.

Bass Reeves

kollegeknight wrote: »

Nobody to lease in our area. Land is so wet the can barely get silage off the meadows.

I’m planning on reducing the cows from 14 to 8 until end of beef genomics. And see how that goes. Land is so wet and bad, I would not change system- the cows know their way around.

When glas is up on the bog, I might try plant a bit of it and move glas around the house instead.

Between work, oh expecting second child, building house and the mother has been hard work since dad died, I’m way over stretched and am just wrecked.

Know a lad with similar land to that he needs nearly 4 LU to stock the place for 7 months to claim the ANC. That is the equivlent of 7 yearlings. However he goes a bit stronger than that he buys 6 in February and another 6 in late march/April. By the middle/end of September he can start off loading the better stores and keep 3-6 to keep it in trim until late October/November. He makes very little in these cattle however it is very easy to do. He cuts and sells a bit of hay or silage. Because he was not worried about silage it allowed him to maximize his GLAS to about 4K, his ANC is around 2K and he has about 6-7K in BFP. He is slow to get into forrestry as he sees little extra out of it

kollegeknight

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Know a lad with similar land to that he needs nearly 4 LU to stock the place for 7 months to claim the ANC. That is the equivlent of 7 yearlings. However he goes a bit stronger than that he buys 6 in February and another 6 in late march/April. By the middle/end of September he can start off loading the better stores and keep 3-6 to keep it in trim until late October/November. He makes very little in these cattle however it is very easy to do. He cuts and sells a bit of hay or silage. Because he was not worried about silage it allowed him to maximize his GLAS to about 4K, his ANC is around 2K and he has about 6-7K in BFP. He is slow to get into forrestry as he sees little extra out of it

At the moment, we have 7k from glas for the hen harrier, about 2k for the ANC and 6-7k for the BFP.
Cattle and fencing and just general ware and tear/ repair is costing a bit now but hoping to reduce that. Mother gets about 7k on top of all her bills paid.

Bass Reeves

kollegeknight wrote: »

At the moment, we have 7k from glas for the hen harrier, about 2k for the ANC and 6-7k for the BFP.
Cattle and fencing and just general ware and tear/ repair is costing a bit now but hoping to reduce that. Mother gets about 7k on top of all her bills paid.

You should consider getting rid of the cows. If you have sheds consider buying weanlings (bucket fed) in the autumn and carry for 12-18 months. No checking cows calving, no bull minimum silage. If you have no sheds then do as the lad I was talking about dose. You have 16K in payments make it as hand as you can for yourself. As the kids get older and more involved you can stock at a higher rate if you want to.

kollegeknight

Bass Reeves wrote: »

You should consider getting rid of the cows. If you have sheds consider buying weanlings (bucket fed) in the autumn and carry for 12-18 months. No checking cows calving, no bull minimum silage. If you have no sheds then do as the lad I was talking about dose. You have 16K in payments make it as hand as you can for yourself. As the kids get older and more involved you can stock at a higher rate if you want to.

Yeah we have plenty of sheds. A 4 bay single starred shed with cubicles.
A lad locally did that but he has better land than me. Must call down to him. Tied into the beef genomics for a few more years.

Bass Reeves

kollegeknight wrote: »

Yeah we have plenty of sheds. A 4 bay single starred shed with cubicles.
A lad locally did that but he has better land than me. Must call down to him. Tied into the beef genomics for a few more years.

Nothing like looking at a neighbour that is running a system that suits you. Go with an open mind not thing that this will not suit me. Be willing to adapt the system just because his land is better is not to mean that taking cows out of the system will leave you with a better lifestyle.

kollegeknight

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Nothing like looking at a neighbour that is running a system that suits you. Go with an open mind not thing that this will not suit me. Be willing to adapt the system just because his land is better is not to mean that taking cows out of the system will leave you with a better lifestyle.

Thanks bass, I’ll take that onboard.

Hard Knocks

Bass Reeves wrote: »

You should consider getting rid of the cows. If you have sheds consider buying weanlings (bucket fed) in the autumn and carry for 12-18 months. No checking cows calving, no bull minimum silage. If you have no sheds then do as the lad I was talking about dose. You have 16K in payments make it as hand as you can for yourself. As the kids get older and more involved you can stock at a higher rate if you want to.

Just throwing something out there
Buying bucket fed Weanlings which could be 2nd / 3rd owners, to sell them on they might not qualify for QA.
Would he take a hit when selling?

gr8 m8

early_riser wrote: »

Would you not lease out the land instead of running a couple of cows over large area of ground!!

Hello,
Thank you for all the replies.

First off, I don't think i would cut back so drastically. I would entertain the idea of cutting back to maybe 20 to 30 cows and use it as an opportunity to cull anything that isn't of good quality or temperament.

I have looked into entering the organic farming scheme and will have to do a lot of work and tidy up the place, proper fencing and infrastructure.

Also I am in GLAS so would like to hold onto the traditional hay meadow and don't know how that would work if I leased out that Land.

Other ideas are in my head like establishing an apple orchard in an agroforestry system with maybe 60 trees per acre and cutting silage or hay between the trees. I have a good market for hay as I work in a horse stud.

I have thought of leasing land and even thought of getting out of the farm altogether but I don't know what I would do for the duration of the lease and the idea of coming back to start again doesn't sit right with me.

I agree with the people who say that there is no money in sucklers so have looked into diversification of the farm and have read that the money is to be made in Ireland in food and tourism.

For now I just need breathing space while I am working off the farm.

Mtx

The ANC scheme is ending after the next payment. So you don't need the minimum number of cows, I think?

BigSteaks

Mtx wrote: »

The ANC scheme is ending after the next payment. So you don't need the minimum number of cows, I think?

No it isnt. Where did you hear that?

TwoOldBoots

No whats ending is the Suckler farming system in Ireland. As it is, it needs constant hand outs from the EU and even then its all the poor mouth from the farmers. Nothing but moaning about the weather, price of cattle and fodder every year. If it was any other industry it would have been allowed to fail years ago.

Bass Reeves

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Just throwing something out there
Buying bucket fed Weanlings which could be 2nd / 3rd owners, to sell them on they might not qualify for QA.
Would he take a hit when selling?

They could be but if you are in the store game you watch movements. You buy weanlings or stores that have movements left if you need them If the cattle have too many movements you adjust your price that you are willing to pay to reflect this

Mtx

BigSteaks wrote: »

Mtx wrote: »

The ANC scheme is ending after the next payment. So you don't need the minimum number of cows, I think?

No it isnt. Where did you hear that?

It is for northern Ireland, see point 4.
https://www.daera-ni.gov.uk/news/payment-rates-anc-scheme-2018

gr8 m8

Hello.

My apologies for bringing this tread up again but I have a question of curiosity!

If I want to go back to do a 2 year course that will help me progress in my work place and want to completely destock my farm of animals because I will no longer be in the area for the week, is there any opinions that I can look into so as not to loose my SFP? That is because I don't want to lease or rent land as I have an agreement with work pending to supply them with hay and haylage from my land!

Bass Reeves

gr8 m8 wrote: »

Hello.

My apologies for bringing this tread up again but I have a question of curiosity!

If I want to go back to do a 2 year course that will help me progress in my work place and want to completely destock my farm of animals because I will no longer be in the area for the week, is there any opinions that I can look into so as not to loose my SFP? That is because I don't want to lease or rent land as I have an agreement with work pending to supply them with hay and haylage from my land!

You need no stock for SFP(BPS) you only need to keep it in good agri condition
cutting hay/haylage will cover this. However if you are drawing ANC( present disadvantaged area Payment) you must have stock for minimum of seven months and an annual average stocking rate of 0.15/HA.

If you had 10 acres which is 4HA you would need 1 yearling (0.6 of a livestock unit)for full year or slightly more than one full unit for seven months.

gr8 m8

Thank you for that reply.

One other question I have is about the transition to organic status. If I destock and apply for organic status, would it be possible to be certified organic by the time I return to the farm assuming I meet all criteria?

My thoughts are that I can then restock with animals of organic status and won't have the cows as not organic but their offspring would qualify!

Just ideas that I am mulling over!

memorystick

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Yes and No. While an average 5 cows for the full year will collect the payments you must also fulfill the 5 cows for 7 consecutive months. Some people that stock at the exact rate get caught if an animal dies and is not replaced before it is removed from your herd number. To avoid this most lads stock at slightly above this say in your case at 7 cows.







It is one thing the eye in the sky should be used to sort out.

What's wrong with that? Everyone is trying to get the maximum out of their land. If a lad can get someone to take his land with no maps and work the system to the best, then what's the problem.


Have you never heard of the lifecycle of a farmer?

Up to 16- sitting on toolbox.

16+ drive, drive, drive.

20+ responsibility akinda sets in and maybe takes conacre but has a very output/get bigger mentality.

40+ reality has finally sank in and you can see a handier system/life with a renewed focus on how to maximise income.

45+ start farming with the young lad and watch the cycle start all over again.

Bleating Lamb

With the long winter we have had I am considering getting out of cows in the backend and keeping more sheep in their place.Am in Glas and one of my measures is fencing for Bovines.If I was to go with getting out of cows I wanted to check what I had to do to fulfill requirements for that measure from next Spring.Rang Glas helpline the other day....would only need to keep 1 Bovine next year to satisfy that measure....lady on phone laughed and agreed with me when I said I better buy a comrade for the ‘1 bovine’ or they mightn’t stay around for long:)

longgonesilver

It is against the rules to keep a bovine on its own out of eight of other cattle unless it is quarantined. So you would need to keep two.

Conflats

gr8 m8 wrote:

One other question I have is about the transition to organic status. If I destock and apply for organic status, would it be possible to be certified organic by the time I return to the farm assuming I meet

gr8 m8 wrote:

Just ideas that I am mulling over!

Organic isn't an easier way to farm, if grass gets tight you can't go with a bag of fert etc. It requires a lot of preparation with swards with clovers etc. You also need to be on top of the game with silage as supplementing with organic meal is a big expense.

Big question is ask myself is where do I want to be in 10 years time? Is it part time stock farming etc.

My view on the bare minimum stocking is land will take a hit with weeds taking over and rushes etc as cattle will naturally only graze in the 'sweetest' areas of the fields. Other option is meadows and either get slurry in from outside farm or be prepared for big fert and lime bill to keep land in decent nutrient status.

gr8 m8

Hello.

I agree that organic farming has a different set of challenges but it is something that I want to do and have looked into it over the last couple of years.

I'm looking at a legume called sainfoin for my winter fodder and a system called "mob grazing" for pasture management which is showing great potential where it is used!

An agreement I have with work is that I can have some of the horse bedding for my land (I have cleared that with the organic governing body and as long as the land shows a deficit then I can use it) and I plan on composting it with a few bales of waste sillage mixed through it and letting it rot down.

I'm still really curious as to if I can apply for the organic transition stage while I am destocked just so that it would be working away in the background?

manjou

in organic livesstock you need minimum stocking rate of .5lu where for anc u need min .15lu so higher stocking rate needed for organics

yosemitesam1

gr8 m8 wrote: »

Hello.

I agree that organic farming has a different set of challenges but it is something that I want to do and have looked into it over the last couple of years.

I'm looking at a legume called sainfoin for my winter fodder and a system called "mob grazing" for pasture management which is showing great potential where it is used!

An agreement I have with work is that I can have some of the horse bedding for my land (I have cleared that with the organic governing body and as long as the land shows a deficit then I can use it) and I plan on composting it with a few bales of waste sillage mixed through it and letting it rot down.

I'm still really curious as to if I can apply for the organic transition stage while I am destocked just so that it would be working away in the background?

You should be able to, veg+tillage farms wouldn't necessarily have stock