Is it possible to improve from 46 minute 5 mile time to 40 minutes in 12 weeks?

joey1111

Is it possible to improve from 46 minute 5 mile time to 40 minutes in 12 weeks?

I am planning on training 4 days a week and doing some speed work

Murph_D

joey1111 wrote: »

Is it possible to improve from 46 minute 5 mile time to 40 minutes in 12 weeks?

I am planning on training 4 days a week and doing some speed work

I’d say it’s possible, if a few basic things are in place. If you’re under 60, reasonably fit, healthy and your weight is under control, 40 mins should be achievable for any male runner, assuming you’re prepared to work hard and train properly.

skyblue46

I'd agree with that. Assuming a few things it is very achievable. Was the 46 minute race done recently? Have you a good idea of what the speedwork will involve?

Glencarraig

Murph_D wrote: »

I’d say it’s possible, if a few basic things are in place. If you’re under 60, reasonably fit, healthy and your weight is under control, 40 mins should be achievable for any male runner, assuming you’re prepared to work hard and train properly.

What has being under 60 got to do with it ?

Murph_D

Very little - I’d say age is the least important of those variables, although if the runner is a relative beginner, he will probably not get the same rate of adaptation as younger runners. Older runners have to contend with atrophy also, which hardly helps (and I should know!)

Glencarraig

Murph_D wrote: »

Very little - I’d say age is the least important of those variables, although if the runner is a relative beginner, he will probably not get the same rate of adaptation as younger runners. Older runners have to contend with atrophy also, which hardly helps (and I should know!)

Raheny 5 mile 2018 M60 results


Name Net Time Gross Time Bib Cat Sub Cat Club
244 James COTTLE 00:30:59 00:31:07 3342 M (216) M60 (1) Crusaders AC
255 Eamonn MCEVOY 00:31:12 00:31:18 4221 M (227) M60 (2) St Finbarrs AC
266 Paul ELLIOTT 00:31:21 00:31:26 2250 M (238) M60 (3) Beechmount Harriers
426 Michael KNIGHT 00:32:51 00:33:28 190 M (379) M60 (4) Sli Cualann AC
500 Paul LARKIN 00:34:06 00:34:17 4186 M (433) M60 (5)
545 Vivian O'GORMAN00:34:08 00:34:48 2965 M (469) M60 (6) IMRA

Not a lot of it going on there then !!!!

Safiri

Murph_D wrote: »

Very little - I’d say age is the least important of those variables, although if the runner is a relative beginner, he will probably not get the same rate of adaptation as younger runners. Older runners have to contend with atrophy also, which hardly helps (and I should know!)

Once you start using age as a barrier to improvement, you are already mentally beat especially if you are newer runner. Someone who is running 10+ years on optimised training and getting older is different. Comparing to younger people is irrelevant as it doesn't matter.

OP, No one can tell you if you will break 40 Minutes in 12 weeks or if it is possible for you on your training. Maybe you will or maybe you won't but if you put in the effort to improve and be smart, you will be a lot closer than you are now and that is what matters.

Murph_D

Glencarraig wrote: »

Raheny 5 mile 2018 M60 results


Name Net Time Gross Time Bib Cat Sub Cat Club
244 James COTTLE 00:30:59 00:31:07 3342 M (216) M60 (1) Crusaders AC
255 Eamonn MCEVOY 00:31:12 00:31:18 4221 M (227) M60 (2) St Finbarrs AC
266 Paul ELLIOTT 00:31:21 00:31:26 2250 M (238) M60 (3) Beechmount Harriers
426 Michael KNIGHT 00:32:51 00:33:28 190 M (379) M60 (4) Sli Cualann AC
500 Paul LARKIN 00:34:06 00:34:17 4186 M (433) M60 (5)
545 Vivian O'GORMAN00:34:08 00:34:48 2965 M (469) M60 (6) IMRA

Not a lot of it going on there then !!!!

Those guys are NOT beginners!

Murph_D

Safiri wrote: »

Once you start using age as a barrier to improvement, you are already mentally beat especially if you are newer runner. Someone who is running 10+ years on optimised training and getting older is different. Comparing to younger people is irrelevant as it doesn't matter.

OP, No one can tell you if you will break 40 Minutes in 12 weeks or if it is possible for you on your training. Maybe you will or maybe you won't but if you put in the effort to improve and be smart, you will be a lot closer than you are now and that is what matters.

I am not saying age is a barrier to improvement - I am suggesting that older runners need to take their physiology into account. It’s no secret that older runners should be more careful about recovery, etc. I’m an M55 myself and try to train smart. Maybe I’m fooling myself, maybe not. But I’m doing OK, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with comparing myself primarily with my peers, rather than with younger runners.

Glencarraig

Murph_D wrote: »

Those guys are NOT beginners!

I know for a fact that one of them may as well be as he took a 30 year break from running and came back at the age of 61 !!

Duanington

Glencarraig wrote: »

I know for a fact that one of them may as well be as he took a 30 year break from running and came back at the age of 61 !!

Most of them are certrainly not beginners then, they are almost all names that I'm familar with anyway. Age is not always a barrier but it has to be a consideration, as Murph has already pointed out - recovery is a huge factor to be taken into account

Itziger

Glencarraig wrote: »

Murph_D wrote: »

Those guys are NOT beginners!

I know for a fact that one of them may as well be as he took a 30 year break from running and came back at the age of 61 !!

$hit, beats my 25 year rest period.

Safiri

I think it's safe to assume from population demographics that the OP is not over 60.

joey1111

skyblue46 wrote: »

I'd agree with that. Assuming a few things it is very achievable. Was the 46 minute race done recently? Have you a good idea of what the speedwork will involve?

I'm not going to be doing anything fancy, just about 4 x 5 minute repeats, then increase 6 x 5 minutes etc and also increasing speed as I get fitter.

I dont think at my level theres any point in trying any other speed work.

I'll try to get a longer than 5 mile run in as well and maybe a progressive one at times.

Anyone got any other ideas?

Thanks

joey1111

Safiri wrote: »

I think it's safe to assume from population demographics that the OP is not over 60.

You are right, I am in my early 40s and just a hobby jogger

Duanington

If you give a little detail about your sporting background, how much you currently run etc...people will have a little more context to give advise on.

In general, I'd be going for a longer than 5 mile run per week (nice and easy), lots of easy stuff, one of those 4x5 minutes sessions sound good but I'd actually be inclined to shorten the duration and increase the number of reps given that you're working with 4 weeks, maybe 10x2, 8x3, 6x4 all with decent recovery over the course of the few weeks?

Swashbuckler

What Duanington said.... A bit of context would definitely help. Four days a week id be looking at two easy runs greater than 5 miles. Maybe 6 miles at easy pace. One longer run at easy pace. And the session like D said shorter would be better. The temptation is to think longer is better but it's probably not the best way to go. The progressions like D said would be better. Definitely doable.

skyblue46

joey1111 wrote: »

I'm not going to be doing anything fancy, just about 4 x 5 minute repeats, then increase 6 x 5 minutes etc and also increasing speed as I get fitter.

I dont think at my level theres any point in trying any other speed work.

I'll try to get a longer than 5 mile run in as well and maybe a progressive one at times.

Anyone got any other ideas?

Thanks

As a relatively inexperienced but older runner who was in your shoes a couple of years ago I'd say worry less about the speed and increase the easy miles. Start at 5 easy once a week and increase half a mile a week, still at a very easy pace. Maybe do more reps for shorter time once a week and 2 easy runs of 3 or 4 miles to start with.

Edit: Sorry hadn't read what the lads had posted.

Murph_D

Safiri wrote: »

I think it's safe to assume from population demographics that the OP is not over 60.

Exactly.

joey1111

Duanington wrote: »

If you give a little detail about your sporting background, how much you currently run etc...people will have a little more context to give advise on.

In general, I'd be going for a longer than 5 mile run per week (nice and easy), lots of easy stuff, one of those 4x5 minutes sessions sound good but I'd actually be inclined to shorten the duration and increase the number of reps given that you're working with 4 weeks, maybe 10x2, 8x3, 6x4 all with decent recovery over the course of the few weeks?

Swashbuckler wrote: »

What Duanington said.... A bit of context would definitely help. Four days a week id be looking at two easy runs greater than 5 miles. Maybe 6 miles at easy pace. One longer run at easy pace. And the session like D said shorter would be better. The temptation is to think longer is better but it's probably not the best way to go. The progressions like D said would be better. Definitely doable.

skyblue46 wrote: »

As a relatively inexperienced but older runner who was in your shoes a couple of years ago I'd say worry less about the speed and increase the easy miles. Start at 5 easy once a week and increase half a mile a week, still at a very easy pace. Maybe do more reps for shorter time once a week and 2 easy runs of 3 or 4 miles to start with.

Edit: Sorry hadn't read what the lads had posted.

Thanks a lot for the advice.

I currently run probably
Two short sessions of 3 x 5 mins with 3 mins recovery. Total 5 kms each. My pace would be about 5.27 for the 5 min interval. Jog recovery.

2 runs of 5 miles each at about 10.15 pace

That would be it most weeks

I did 1 run of 5.5 miles this week so I am increasing the run

I probably need to add another km or mile to my shorter speed sessions as cool downs.

Maybe drop one of the speed sessions and make that easy miles?

Are these paces okay?

How far would you recommend for the long run?

Murph_D

Itziger wrote: »

$hit, beats my 25 year rest period.

Well of course that’s a good point. I was never a runner back in the day, but playing other sports fairly regularly until 30, then the odd little bit, then nothing for best part of 20 years. You get away with it for a while. Or at least you think you do. My own transition from obscurity back to sporting mediocrity at 50 was reasonably seamless, but I had the advantage of never having put on a pound since my 20s. Which makes the transition back a little easier, especially if you’re prepared to be disciplined. I think.

There’s a wonderful community here on boards, but in recent years there’s been a tendency to advise towards enjoyment of running rather than enjoyment of performance. My take is - if you’re (relatively) young, fit and healthy, you should be going for (at the very least) sub-4 marathon and all the equivalent times for shorter distances, and a sub-40 5-mile is obviously well within those parameters.

So OP, go for it.