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Dublin future transport

  • 14-02-2018 12:46pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭ Ireland trains


    Will dublin transport map ever look like this
    What happened to metro west. Haven't heard about it in years


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,170 ✭✭✭ cgcsb


    I always thought it strange that there is no public transport alternative to the busiest road in the state, not even a basic bus route does a similar journey.


  • Registered Users Posts: 929 ✭✭✭ Brian CivilEng


    cgcsb wrote: »
    I always thought it strange that there is no public transport alternative to the busiest road in the state, not even a basic bus route does a similar journey.

    It's an interesting one alright, but I think you have to take into account that the M50 itself isn't a destination, and in reality there are very few actual destinations located near it. As a driver, leaving the motorway and traveling an extra two or three kilometres to your final destination isn't a big issue, but for a bus passenger that's a 30min walk, or a bus diversion that would slow everyone down.

    The M50 was designed for cars, if you tried to bolt on a bus service I can't see it being that successful. Not due to lack of demand, but the time taken to serve the different destinations.


  • Registered Users Posts: 272 ✭✭ BowSideChamp


    There should be a bus route servicing the main shopping centres (Dundrum, Liffey Valley and Blanch) and Dublin Airport. The shopping centres are the epicentre of bus routes in their local areas and if you link them with a efficient express M50 bus route you would connect the suburbs very easily.

    444604.PNG


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,673 ✭✭✭✭ Zebra3


    It's an interesting one alright, but I think you have to take into account that the M50 itself isn't a destination, and in reality there are very few actual destinations located near it. As a driver, leaving the motorway and traveling an extra two or three kilometres to your final destination isn't a big issue, but for a bus passenger that's a 30min walk, or a bus diversion that would slow everyone down.

    The M50 was designed for cars, if you tried to bolt on a bus service I can't see it being that successful. Not due to lack of demand, but the time taken to serve the different destinations.

    Think it should be about connecting routes into the city that the M50 goes over.

    Huge problem with Dublin is that if you live in the suburbs and don’t work locally or in the city, it ends up as a car journey.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,658 ✭✭✭ Markcheese


    The m50 is the connecting link between most other forms of Dublin transport.. Cars, buses/coaches, trams, rail and metro(eventually) they all cross it , as well as the port tunnel being one end...
    Most non city centre businesses and employers hub off of it... So build míni transport hubs at every available junction, an orbital bus or rail either under /over or alongside it with a stop at every junction, and park and ride, bus/coach stops, bike parks ect... Major employers /industrial estates could run shuttle buses to their nearest m50 junction, saving them parking spaces and local congestion...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 HonalD


    Markcheese wrote: »
    ... So build míni transport hubs at every available junction, an orbital bus or rail either under /over or alongside it with a stop at every junction, and park and ride, bus/coach stops, bike parks ect... Major employers /industrial estates could run shuttle buses to their nearest m50 junction, saving them parking spaces and local congestion...
    I'm not disagreeing with the obvious benefits of having an integrated public transport system but practically speaking, how would you build this utopia, given the constraints of private ownership of land, layout of junctions, reduction of M50 traffic lanes to include transit lane etc.?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,205 Mod ✭✭✭✭ hmmm


    HonalD wrote: »
    I'm not disagreeing with the obvious benefits of having an integrated public transport system but practically speaking, how would you build this utopia, given the constraints of private ownership of land, layout of junctions, reduction of M50 traffic lanes to include transit lane etc.?
    Could we use the hard shoulder as a bus lane? Sightlines are good enough that someone stopped in the shoulder can be avoided by a bus.


  • Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭ fionnsci


    hmmm wrote: »
    Could we use the hard shoulder as a bus lane? Sightlines are good enough that someone stopped in the shoulder can be avoided by a bus.

    Then you wouldn't have a hard shoulder. They're not decorative.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell


    fionnsci wrote: »
    Then you wouldn't have a hard shoulder. They're not decorative.

    I have noticed when driving around Birmingham that they use the hard shoulder during peak hours as an extra lane (with cameras, warning lights and other infrastructure), so it would be possible.

    If it was marked as a bus lane, would it be respected by the usual motorists who are too important to wait in line?


  • Registered Users Posts: 918 ✭✭✭ riddlinrussell


    They are in the process of converting the hard shoulders of the M1 and M2 in Northern Ireland into bus lanes so it would not be without precedent, the current thinking on hard shoulders seems to lean towards them being much less necessary than they were previously due to improved car reliability. If we had room for emergency lay-by's like many continental motorways use it might be feasible.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,673 ✭✭✭✭ Zebra3


    Bus lanes on N4 used to be hard shoulders, iirc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭ fionnsci


    Fair enough, I'm not yet convinced but I'm coming around to it.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Bus lanes on N4 used to be hard shoulders, iirc.

    Same on the N11.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,686 ✭✭✭✭ punisher5112


    Same on the N11.

    Very true but one big issue I see is people's ability to leave safe gaps and high speeds it is way too busy on the M50.

    If CCTV and anpr was fitted it could well work though.

    Imagine if they could have planned right and we could have a linking bus service at least running on the M50 with special designated pick up points.

    It's crazy looking at all the cars going to the same placed when even have a park and ride facility which would be big enough to actually work.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭ Lord Glentoran


    There should be a bus route servicing the main shopping centres (Dundrum, Liffey Valley and Blanch) and Dublin Airport. The shopping centres are the epicentre of bus routes in their local areas and if you link them with a efficient express M50 bus route you would connect the suburbs very easily.

    444604.PNG

    Might not be that efficient at peak though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,673 ✭✭✭✭ Zebra3


    Looks like a worthwhile plan for relatively modest expenditure.

    If the political will is there....


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 grumpy old man


    I would extend this "shuttle bus to junctions" concept to all motorway junctions nationwide.
    With a little technology, the mainline bus could be a stop request via mobile app for certain stops with low traffic.
    Not so many land cost issues outside Dublin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,658 ✭✭✭ Markcheese


    I would extend this "shuttle bus to junctions" concept to all motorway junctions nationwide.
    With a little technology, the mainline bus could be a stop request via mobile app for certain stops with low traffic.
    Not so many land cost issues outside Dublin.
    And if motorway junctions had raised platforms (either next to or under the overpass, then the "mainline" buses wouldn't éven have to leave the motorway....

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,658 ✭✭✭ Markcheese


    HonalD wrote: »
    I'm not disagreeing with the obvious benefits of having an integrated public transport system but practically speaking, how would you build this utopia, given the constraints of private ownership of land, layout of junctions, reduction of M50 traffic lanes to include transit lane etc.?

    There'd have to be a fair bit of compulsory purchase orders, could be multistorey park and rides, with bus and coach station on the ground floor, and done junction by junction. Not necessarily all at once...
    And no, not a cheapo idea... But could seriously up the number of people able to use the m50 (while potentially reducing car numbers).

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭ spacetweek


    It's crazy looking at all the cars going to the same placed when even have a park and ride facility which would be big enough to actually work.
    Virtually no car on the M50 is going to the same place which is exactly the problem. Where would you have the bus go?
    Markcheese wrote: »
    And if motorway junctions had raised platforms (either next to or under the overpass, then the "mainline" buses wouldn't éven have to leave the motorway....

    Pity you can't have pedestrians on motorways.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,658 ✭✭✭ Markcheese


    Pity you can't have pedestrians on motorways.

    Why would you want to? You don't have Rail passengers on tracks either.... A raised or segregated pull in for the dedicated orbital buses leading onto a luas style platform with
    covered escalators upto the overpass bridge...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users Posts: 918 ✭✭✭ riddlinrussell


    Markcheese wrote: »
    Why would you want to? You don't have Rail passengers on tracks either.... A raised or segregated pull in for the dedicated orbital buses leading onto a luas style platform with
    covered escalators upto the overpass bridge...

    I could maybe see there being a justification for such a structure if you were to have a ring bus on the M50, but there its much more likely the buses will run orbital routes, have stops at each major orbital terminus (Blanchardstown SC, Liffey Valley, The Square, Dundrum).

    Outside of that if you're going to have a motorway bus service then instead simply have park and rides at a selection of junctions, it doesn't take too long to come off/into an immediate P+R and back on. If some sort of request system were put in place could further streamline such a system.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭ spacetweek


    The 76A covers The Square-Liffey Valley-Blanch Centre. However it only uses the M50 between LV and Blanch.
    I'd start by filling in the missing bridge between Fonthill Road and Porterstown Road and rerouting 76A that way. Increase frequency and see what demand is like.
    Build Metro West in the 2030s.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,228 ✭✭✭ tom1ie


    There is only one way to create extra capacity on the m50, as there is no more space left to upgrade. That would be to remove cars. (State the obvious!)
    My idea is to remove the commuter traffic coming in to Dublin which then uses the m50 to “distribute itself” around Dublin.
    E.g if you live in swords but work in park west, you’d drive the following, m1-m50-n7 city bound.
    So to remove the above traffic, a p+r would have to be built at a point on the m1, let’s say around swords. You would then get, public transport (metro, Luas, brt, whatever) heading in towards the City Centre.
    Along this route there would be approx 4 stops.
    Each stop would then have an orbital brt route that would connect with other routes coming in from the main arterial routes towards the cc. ( n2,n3,m4 etc etc) so people would buy one ticket and be able to distribute around the city using pt.
    The main arterial routes on the city side of the p+r’s would be tolled to force people to use pt.
    This would free up capacity on the m50 which would allow one of the lanes to be converted into an orbital brt qbc.
    If 10000 space p+r’s (which there are examples of efficient p+r’s of that size) where built on all the major arterial routes leading into the m50 that could remove 10000x 6= 60000 cars per day.
    The m50 would be one orbital route, but there’d have to be at least 3 more capable of being called proper brt routes, within the m50 loop heading towards the cc, and possibly one outside the m50 route.


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