Dublin CryptoCafe

papu

Nice write up about our new CryptoCafe on Aungier Street.

http://bitcoinist.com/dublin-cafe-sells-coffee-for-crypto/

Currently the Cafe accepts Litecoin and Ethereum (and €) , has anyone been yet and paid in crypto?

pro_gnostic_8

That they don't accept Bitcoin is a sad reflection on the current fees and confirmation times. Fully understandable, tho'.
It would seem that the cafe might be a good candidate for the Lightning Network if they set up a channel.

garrettod

Hi,

While Bitcoin is extremely well known, you can't blame them for not wanting to accept it as payment given the transaction costs. I also don't think many people are holding it for retail purposes these days, with most who hold it doing so for speculative purposes, so unlikely to use it to pay for coffee etc.

I think the concept of this new outlet is great, but I would be very curious to know how long the average payment is taking to process and if that's resulting in queues forming, as people try to order and pay for coffees ?

I'll certainly pop in for a look at some stage.

Matt Simis

Perfect case study for Nano, zero fees, instant settlement (can you imagine waiting on BTC to finish confirming while ordering a coffee?), closed environment with backups (ie a single coffee shop).

pro_gnostic_8

garrettod wrote: »

Hi,

I'll certainly pop in for a look at some stage.

TBH, I'ld be hesitant about doing any crypto transaction in there!
I presume the cafe's WiFi is an open network like every other cafe.

An open, unencrypted WiFi network carries multiple and substantial risks. There are many attack vectors in such a network, like Man-In-The-Middle spoofs, sniffing of secure information, distribution of malware etc etc. These risks are very real.

Would any members of this forum carry out sensitive communications ( codes, passwords, details etc) with their bank in a open cafe environment? I doubt it. Doing crypto tx's in such a situation is just as dangerous.

Or maybe, I am just paranoid?

drunkmonkey

What are the transaction costs on a 3 euro cup of coffee?

I know I bought some of the top 5 coins from coinbase and it was more than 5 euro a go regardless of which one. Just bought 100 euro of each.

papu

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What are the transaction costs on a 3 euro cup of coffee?

I know I bought some of the top 5 coins from coinbase and it was more than 5 euro a go regardless of which one. Just bought 100 euro of each.

You are buying, not transferring, sending fees for LTC are median 0.05 USD and 0.388 USD for ETH

from https://bitinfocharts.com

I'm not bothered to find the exact fee on a cup of coffee, you could check this yourself on coinbase app

pro_gnostic_8

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What are the transaction costs on a 3 euro cup of coffee?

I know I bought some of the top 5 coins from coinbase and it was more than 5 euro a go regardless of which one. Just bought 100 euro of each.

For Litecoin, a fee of around 4 cent. You'll be waiting around for about two minutes for a confirmation at that fee level.

Ethereum would be in the 30 cent range -- at that fee you will be looking at a confirmation time of about 5 minutes. Pay a €1.50 fee and you will get your coffee in around a minute.
(The above is predicated, tho', that the ETH network isn't clogged with some new ICO launching at the same time).


And of course, you will be only able to dictate those fees if you are using a wallet that has integrated custom fees (one that allows you to set the fee yourself).

pro_gnostic_8

papu wrote: »

You are buying, not transferring, sending fees for LTC are median 0.05 USD and 0.388 USD for ETH

Crossposted with the above.
(But glad to see the confirmation).

papu

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

TBH, I'ld be hesitant about doing any crypto transaction in there!
I presume the cafe's WiFi is an open network like every other cafe.

An open, unencrypted WiFi network carries multiple and substantial risks. There are many attack vectors in such a network, like Man-In-The-Middle spoofs, sniffing of secure information, distribution of malware etc etc. These risks are very real.

Would any members of this forum carry out sensitive communications ( codes, passwords, details etc) with their bank in a open cafe environment? I doubt it. Doing crypto tx's in such a situation is just as dangerous.

Or maybe, I am just paranoid?

Crypto transactions are signed
The singature becomes invalid when you change anything in the transaction.
- you cannot change the amount
- you cannot change the destination
In the users wallet there is a hidden secret "private key" only the true owner of coin can sign "spend" the coin.

I don't think there is any opportunity to steal coins from crypto transactions

pro_gnostic_8

papu wrote: »

Crypto transactions are signed
The singature becomes invalid when you change anything in the transaction.
- you cannot change the amount
- you cannot change the destination
In the users wallet there is a hidden secret "private key" only the true owner of coin can sign "spend" the coin.

I don't think there is any opportunity to steal coins from crypto transactions

Oh, okay, if you feel safe in such an environment, then, fair enough.
But just this, and I didn't mention anything about amounts, destination or private keys, I'm talking about when you open and sign into your wallet with PIN and password, then, it is at that moment that you are vulnerable in an open unencrypted network.

SteelyDanJalapeno

Do they accept Nano?

garrettod

Hi,

I'd be interested to hear what the cafe operator has to say about these potential risks.

They must have considered them, and obviously if there is real risk to the customer here, then the odds are that they won't be in business very long.

drunkmonkey

garrettod wrote: »

Hi,

I'd be interested to hear what the cafe operator has to say about these potential risks.

They must have considered them, and obviously if there is real risk to the customer here, then the odds are that they won't be in business very long.

No risk he's sold 6 cups of coffee and got free national exposure for his business.

crytoadvice

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

TBH, I'ld be hesitant about doing any crypto transaction in there!
I presume the cafe's WiFi is an open network like every other cafe.

An open, unencrypted WiFi network carries multiple and substantial risks. There are many attack vectors in such a network, like Man-In-The-Middle spoofs, sniffing of secure information, distribution of malware etc etc. These risks are very real.

Would any members of this forum carry out sensitive communications ( codes, passwords, details etc) with their bank in a open cafe environment? I doubt it. Doing crypto tx's in such a situation is just as dangerous.

Or maybe, I am just paranoid?

Is there not a physical risk also that customers could be targeted. Anyone going in to the cafe can be presumed to be carrying crypto in some form of wallet. Its not like entering and leaving a bank, the customer will definetly have crypto on them.

Btw Im using a wifi modem. Whats the difference in my setup to the public wifi that a cafe offers. I know the cafe provides the password to customers. is that the only difference in security

Dades

You don't have to use wifi just because you're in a cafe. Won't most people just use their phone network? There's no requirement to hook up to anything - just to get a wallet address (via QR code) and send using whatever method you choose?

There's no benefit to paying with crypto here but that's not the point. It's still a curiosity, and one shared by owners/patrons. I'd do it just to be the first person I know to buy something with crypto.

Matt Simis

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

Oh, okay, if you feel safe in such an environment, then, fair enough.
But just this, and I didn't mention anything about amounts, destination or private keys, I'm talking about when you open and sign into your wallet with PIN and password, then, it is at that moment that you are vulnerable in an open unencrypted network.

If you believe all of this is realistically going to happen then you dont believe crypto currencies can ever be used as intended!
Or just dont use the open WiFi like a tourist, use your own phone's network.

lifeandtimes

Dades wrote: »

You don't have to use wifi just because you're in a cafe. Won't most people just use their phone network? There's no requirement to hook up to anything - just to get a wallet address (via QR code) and send using whatever method you choose?

There's no benefit to paying with crypto here but that's not the point. It's still a curiosity, and one shared by owners/patrons. I'd do it just to be the first person I know to buy something with crypto.

Or just use a paper wallet with qr code and boom no issues and you've paid for you coffee with crypto

pro_gnostic_8

Matt Simis wrote: »

Or just dont use the open WiFi like a tourist, use your own phone's network.

Yeh, I don't have an eat-all-you-can data plan. Outdoors, I use whatever WiFi is available -- and it is fairly ubiquitous in pubs and cafe's nowadays.
My posts earlier were specifically abut tx'ing cryptos in an open WiFi environment. Anyone who does so in that new cafe could well get burnt -- not all newcomers to crypto are fully aware of necessary security in the crypto space.

If you believe all of this is realistically going to happen then you dont believe crypto currencies can ever be used as intended!

Oh indeed, I've made quite a few purchase with Bitcoin over the years -- a Trezor, a PS4, some other bits and bobs from Purse.io and Newegg. But always I pressed the Send Bitcoin button in a secure private network.

unkel

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

Yeh, I don't have an eat-all-you-can data plan.

Surely, a crypto transfer takes up very little bandwidth. It's not like you're watching Netflix in 4k

Seriously, I wouldn't use public open wifi ever. Why would you chance it when you have data? And who doesn't have data these days? My daughters have free unlimited everything on virginmedia for €5 per month each

What plan are you on? Whatever it is, you're paying far too much!

pro_gnostic_8

unkel wrote: »

My daughters have free unlimited everything on virginmedia for €5 per month each

What plan are you on? Whatever it is, you're paying far too much!

A fiver ????
Obviously I'm getting ripped biggly. I'm on Vodaphone Red Essentials at €35 a month -- and they deign to give me 2GB data allowance.
I'ld go for 3 network and their plan, but 3's coverage in my part of the country is shockingly bad -- non-existent even. No exaggeration.

Anyway, that's not the point, really. Some people might not be as savvy as you or other folk on here about internet security. Some people might, and do, just switch on the WiFi when in a cafe or pub. They are vulnerable if doing so. That's all I was saying, essentially.

unkel

I get your point and yes, your plan is the worst value for money out there. My wife is on it too and insists on keeping it. You don't even get a decent phone with that package :eek:

€5 was a 5/mth offer from virginmedia. Post Office are doing a €10/mth offer at the moment. I'm on a decent 10GB data deal with Eir that is €20/mth. All no contract buy your own phone billpay deals. Sorry for OT but I like saving myself (and others) money

crytoadvice

unkel wrote: »

I get your point and yes, your plan is the worst value for money out there. My wife is on it too and insists on keeping it. You don't even get a decent phone with that package :eek:

€5 was a 5/mth offer from virginmedia. Post Office are doing a €10/mth offer at the moment. I'm on a decent 10GB data deal with Eir that is €20/mth. All no contract buy your own phone billpay deals. Sorry for OT but I like saving myself (and others) money

You should be getting 15gb fro 20euro
https://www.eir.ie/mobile/prepay/

unkel

crytoadvice wrote: »

You should be getting 15gb fro 20euro
https://www.eir.ie/mobile/prepay/

Either with no txts or no calls or no data? And I do already get more than 15GB if the roaming data is included. Read your links next time before you post them man

crytoadvice

unkel wrote: »

I get your point and yes, your plan is the worst value for money out there. My wife is on it too and insists on keeping it. You don't even get a decent phone with that package :eek:

€5 was a 5/mth offer from virginmedia. Post Office are doing a €10/mth offer at the moment. I'm on a decent 10GB data deal with Eir that is €20/mth. All no contract buy your own phone billpay deals. Sorry for OT but I like saving myself (and others) money

unkel wrote: »

Either with no txts or no calls or no data? And I do already get more than 15GB if the roaming data is included. Read your links next time before you post them man

I dont see any offer on Eir for prepay that has data for 10euro whether on Simply
Unlimited or Simply Plans.

You said this which is a contradiction "All no contract buy your own phone billpay deals". A billpay deal is a contract. Why would anyone tie themselves to a contract for 10euro and buy your phone?

lifeandtimes

lads maybe take this to Eir forum and leave this for the crypto cafe

unkel

Apologies for the off topic, but I can't leave it like that.

crytoadvice wrote: »

I dont see any offer on Eir for prepay that has data for 10euro

You misread my post. Post office is €10 at the moment (not Eir)

crytoadvice wrote: »

You said this which is a contradiction "All no contract buy your own phone billpay deals". A billpay deal is a contract. Why would anyone tie themselves to a contract for 10euro and buy your phone?

Most of them are 30 day contracts which can be cancelled without charge. I'm pretty sure that the €5 / month all you can eat everything from Virgin that was valid for 5 months can be cancelled at no charge at the end. Very different from the normal contracts where the monthly bill is many times higher and the contract period is usually 24 months (and you still don't get a decent phone for free) like the Vodafone 35 plan mentioned

garrettod

unkel wrote: »

Apologies for the off topic, but I can't leave it like that. ....

Ah come on mate, couldn't you have edited a previous post to get the same message across, or sent a PM to tell the other party that they misread your post ?

How about splitting this thread now, putting the mobile phone stuff into a new thread in it's correct forum, then put a link here to redirect people if they want to continue the conversation ?

... and just for the record, I'm as guilty as the next fella of taking threads off topic from time to time, so please don't get me wrong here - but we all need to encourage each other to do the right thing, from time to time



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