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one stone cold radiator

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  • 12-02-2018 9:37pm
    #1
    Andy From Sligo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,754 ✭✭✭✭


    hi again all. Out of all our radiators there is this one (small) radiator upstairs that refuses to heat up with all the others and its stone cold all the time in the bathroom and its freezing in there.

    Things I have tried: Taking off the TRV head and pressing the top of the valve with my thumb to make sure the valve isnt sticking. - closing and re-opening the lockshield valve on the other side. - bleeding the radiator (there was no air in it - water came out fine out of the bleed valve, albeit cold water)

    If I shut off all the other upstairs radiators using their TRV's then this particular radiotorwill get hot after a minute (boiling hot) - but turn the other rads on and its back to being cold.

    The central heating pump speed is set to maximum on speed 3 - I could be pretty sure the rad is not blocked with sludge because the house was built in 2008 and had a new boiler fitted in 2012.

    Does it sound like it could be a balancing problem (IE other rads upstairs need balancing?)

    I could be wrong but I could have sworn when it did heat up that the pipe on the lockshield got hot first and the pipe on the TRV side was cold to start off with - that sounds like the radiator is working back to front doesnt it?

    any ideas?
    Tagged:


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    #2
    agusta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭agusta


    rads upstairs need balancing


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    #3
    micks_address
    Registered Users Posts: 8,479 ✭✭✭micks_address


    agusta wrote: »
    rads upstairs need balancing

    Is it just one rad? We had problem with front room rads upstairs not heating. Turned out to be slight blockage in some older gunbarrell pipes.. No amount of balancing fixed.. Was pain to vet sorted


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    #4
    Andy From Sligo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,754 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    agusta wrote: »
    rads upstairs need balancing

    i was thinking that . lovely , I hate balancing rads. Find it difficult and can never find out which rad is furthest from the boiler and get the temps right.

    so I thought with balancing the other rads heated up but some rads were cooler than others , not stone cold like that


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    #5
    Andy From Sligo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,754 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    micks_address wrote: »
    Is it just one rad? We had problem with front room rads upstairs not heating. Turned out to be slight blockage in some older gunbarrell pipes.. No amount of balancing fixed.. Was pain to vet sorted

    these arent old gunbarrell pipes in this house, was built in 2008. Funny pipes they have fitted here to the rads and to the tapes. They are all white, not your normal copper , not made of plastic either though .. some special pipes brought in from Germany or somewhere.


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    #6
    rpmcs
    Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭rpmcs


    To me it sounds like the radiator in question is restricted in one way or another.
    Could be a build up of sludge or just that the way the piping is done is leaving it hard for natural flow of water around system to include this radiator?

    If as you say it gets warm/hot when flow has nowhere else to go (all other rads turned off), well then you can assume it's not fully blocked or trv valve is failed.
    So on that presumption I would try balancing the system.

    So when you have time ....after heat turned on wait till the rads start to get warm.
    Pick the rad that heats up first and turn down valve on the blank side/opposite side to the trv valve. Not to off position but slightly/ few turns .
    Repeat this on next few rads that are getting warmer/hotter than the rest and in turn this should help push the water/heat to the small one that is getting no heat at moment.
    Easiest way to explain.....water is lazy.
    It will take easiest path. So if you restrict slightly to rads getting very hot then it will make journey to small rad.
    But if it's sludge or faulty trv valve then this will only help slightly.
    Has it ever worked or is it been a gradual thing?


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    #7
    rpmcs
    Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭rpmcs


    Sorry went into depth on balancing when you seemed to know.
    On rad back to front...i think it does not effect rad operation from either side is on flow. Afaik


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    #8
    Andy From Sligo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,754 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    rpmcs wrote: »
    To me it sounds like the radiator in question is restricted in one way or another.
    Could be a build up of sludge or just that the way the piping is done is leaving it hard for natural flow of water around system to include this radiator?

    If as you say it gets warm/hot when flow has nowhere else to go (all other rads turned off), well then you can assume it's not fully blocked or trv valve is failed.
    So on that presumption I would try balancing the system.

    So when you have time ....after heat turned on wait till the rads start to get warm.
    Pick the rad that heats up first and turn down valve on the blank side/opposite side to the trv valve. Not to off position but slightly/ few turns .
    Repeat this on next few rads that are getting warmer/hotter than the rest and in turn this should help push the water/heat to the small one that is getting no heat at moment.
    Easiest way to explain.....water is lazy.
    It will take easiest path. So if you restrict slightly to rads getting very hot then it will make journey to small rad.
    But if it's sludge or faulty trv valve then this will only help slightly.
    Has it ever worked or is it been a gradual thing?

    Thank you for that advice, will give that a go. That sounds more easier than using thermometer on the flow and returns and everything.

    The only time it ever got hot that rad was when I turned off all the upstairs rads by their TRV's (kept the downstairs rads on , didnt want to trip the boiler overheat stat) so every other time that rad has been stone cold when the rest of upstairs rads where turned on . Bloody nuisance


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    #9
    Andy From Sligo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,754 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    I thought this newer system (what I call heating pipes running in parralel) that one of the advantages was that the radiators didnt need balancing any more? - I thought each rad got the same amount of heat with it.? - is that not the case?

    I thought just the old type systems needed balancing


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    #10
    snor
    Registered Users Posts: 524 ✭✭✭snor


    I had the same problem as you .andy - a small radiator in an upstairs bathroom also. My plumber sorted it out by balancing. Good luck.


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    #11
    Andy From Sligo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,754 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    snor wrote: »
    I had the same problem as you .andy - a small radiator in an upstairs bathroom also. My plumber sorted it out by balancing. Good luck.

    oh good, i shall have to persevere .... or get a plumber in one day :)


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    #12
    agusta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭agusta


    Andy From Sligo wrote: »
    oh good, i shall have to persevere .... or get a plumber in one day :)
    Andy,We know you will sort it


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    #13
    RebelButtMunch
    Registered Users Posts: 2,378 ✭✭✭RebelButtMunch


    I had the same problem even after balancing . Only a new pump fixed it


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    #14
    Andy From Sligo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,754 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    RebelButtMunch wrote: »
    I had the same problem even after balancing . Only a new pump fixed it

    hadnt thought of that avenue. The pump would have been fitted in 2012 , and on maximum 3rd speed gives a nice normal hum when its on. Its on the return as well in the boiler module if that has any bearing. So it must be drawing the water from the rads rather than pushing it towards the rads

    Must say i have always preferred the pump on the flow, and the water is always around 60-65c so heat wouldnt be an issue with buggering up the pump - or is it best system to have the pump on return for other reasons?


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    #15
    Andy From Sligo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,754 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    I am back with a bit of progress - had the lockshield caps off and all the lockshield valves are nearly open fully to the top , so on some of the hottest rads I have turned down the valve fully and opened up about 1 turn ... and after about a minute the stone cold radiator started warming up!! - so I am going in the right direction I bet. after 15 minutes its warm but not hot like the others so I need to do a bit more tweaking - I will do that after lunch.

    Is it not a requirement when the plumber/heating person commissions the boiler that they dont balance the radiators - or is the commissioning just checking the boiler is working ok and no leaks?


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    #16
    Iderown
    Registered Users Posts: 233 ✭✭Iderown


    Andy - radiator system here had similar problem. The heating plumbing takes what I call "the scenic route" around the house. Some of the pipe is on the floor of the roof space and is well above any rads. Bubbles of air can collect in those pipes and severely impede the water flow. What I do during the yearly air bleed of the system is to close all rads except the one furthest from the boiler. Turn the pump speed up full and leave for 3 or 4 minutes. I can often hear the air moving into the rad which is open. Unplug pump, bleed the air from the rad and finally re-balance the rads.
    Weather is too cold at the moment to have heating problems.


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