2014 possible axle issue?

goz83

My 2014 Tekna failed the NCT this morning with rear alignment off by +2. Tolerance is +/- 18 and mine was +20. I seen the tester trying it on a different lane to pass it, but alas it failed to my surprise. He said the driver side rear tyre was a bit worn, but that in itself wasn't a fail, replacing could correct the alignment.

Off to Atlas to get the rear wheels aligned, but the axle is solid and with no adjustment. They suggested replacing the rear tyre and "I would be very surprised if that didn't pass it" was what I was told. I figured it was worth a shot and the tyre would need replacing soon anyway. NCT rebooked.

Now, I am wondering if the car is one which has the problem axle which many got replaced under warranty. If so, what are my chances of getting Nissan to sort this out? The 3 year warranty ended 11 months ago. If there is an issue and they don't sort it, what are the options for correcting it? Shims maybe?

gunnerfitzy

goz83 wrote: »

My 2014 Tekna failed the NCT this morning with rear alignment off by +2. Tolerance is +/- 18 and mine was +20. I seen the tester trying it on a different lane to pass it, but alas it failed to my surprise. He said the driver side rear tyre was a bit worn, but that in itself wasn't a fail, replacing could correct the alignment.

Off to Atlas to get the rear wheels aligned, but the axle is solid and with no adjustment. They suggested replacing the rear tyre and "I would be very surprised if that didn't pass it" was what I was told. I figured it was worth a shot and the tyre would need replacing soon anyway. NCT rebooked.

Now, I am wondering if the car is one which has the problem axle which many got replaced under warranty. If so, what are my chances of getting Nissan to sort this out? The 3 year warranty ended 11 months ago. If there is an issue and they don't sort it, what are the options for correcting it? Shims maybe?

I brought my 151 to Nissan with similar issue although it may not have been quite as severe. I was told that there is a ‘repair kit’ and that they would order and fit it which they did. Perhaps this may be an option? I was just in warranty but if it’s a ‘kit’ that took a hour to fit then the cost may not be excessive.

Gumbo

Please update as you go on Goz.
My 14 Tekna is due it’s first nct in June also.

Orebro

Yup - please keep us updated. I'd be very interested to see if there is an actual "kit" that Nissan have developed to sort this issue.

zilog_jones

goz83 wrote: »

Off to Atlas to get the rear wheels aligned, but the axle is solid and with no adjustment.

This is a bit misleading - it has a torsion beam rear suspension, which is flexible (as opposed to a "solid axle" which is completely rigid, not something you see in a modern car) but is not inherently adjustable like an independent suspension. Adjustments can be made using shims, which may be what the "repair kit" is. I think it's either that or replacing the axle.

I've heard of quite a few cases of this issue with the Leaf - I wonder does it have anything to do with the quality of our roads, or kerb damage, or anything else? It's not like torsion beams are uncommon in small cars, but I've never heard of other models failing on alignment like this.

goz83

Well I am not misleading anyone. I am only repeating what I was told. Solid axle are the words I was told. I haven't been under the car myself to see it.

It's only the Teknas built late 13 and 14 which were supposed to have been affected with the axle issue to a greater or lesser extent. When I first learned about the general issue, the only way to solve it was a replacement axle. Less than a year later, I now see "kits" are available to sort it.

Hopefully the new tyre will be enough to sort it out, as the alignment was only a little over the allowable tolerance and the original tyre was still on the car. She has 53k klms on her.

We wouldn't have heard of any NCT failures because it's only now that these cars are going through the test.

I will update on Thursday. Fingers crossed.

KCross

zilog_jones wrote: »

I've heard of quite a few cases of this issue with the Leaf - I wonder does it have anything to do with the quality of our roads, or kerb damage, or anything else? It's not like torsion beams are uncommon in small cars, but I've never heard of other models failing on alignment like this.

Lots of folks in the UK with the same issue so I don't think its "our roads" if you meant specifically Ireland.

I think the beam was just not up to the job or had a batch of beams made that were outside normal tolerance levels.

goz83 wrote: »

It's only the Teknas built late 13 and 14 which were supposed to have been affected with the axle issue to a greater or lesser extent. When I first learned about the general issue, the only way to solve it was a replacement axle. Less than a year later, I now see "kits" are available to sort it.

I've an April '15 Tekna and it had the issue. New beam put on.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103796476&postcount=23

I don't think its limited to Tekna's or 13-15 cars either. I've heard of 2016's having the issue but not as bad.

The kit is almost certainly shims which is what some people in the UK have had done. If you had warranty I'd look for a new beam but clearly thats not viable for you since you are out of warranty.... Im sure shims will be fine.

goz83 wrote: »

Hopefully the new tyre will be enough to sort it out, as the alignment was only a little over the allowable tolerance and the original tyre was still on the car. She has 53k klms on her.

Did you measure the rear tyre wear difference from the inside to the outside of each tyre?

I'd be surprised if you got 53k km's on the original tyres AND have a rear tyre wear issue. If the beam was out you would have eaten through the originals way before 53k km's.

e.g. Usually, when the beam is off you would be looking at say, 2mm left on the outside of the tyre and 4.5mm on the inside.... a new tyre has about 8mm.... so with with only 3.5mm of the inside used you would have to replace the tyre because the outside is hitting the legal limit.

So, something doesn't add up there. Maybe they weren't the originals? Maybe the previous owner put OEM's on the car? Maybe they did a tyre rotation?

zilog_jones

goz83 wrote: »

Well I am not misleading anyone. I am only repeating what I was told. Solid axle are the words I was told.

I'm saying their terminology is misleading, not you. A Datsun 120Y might have a solid rear axle, but not a Leaf.

KCross wrote: »

Lots of folks in the UK with the same issue so I don't think its "our roads" if you meant specifically Ireland.

Potholes are not unheard of in the UK either, I just don't hear from Leaf owners outside Ireland so didn't know (only really follow here and Irish EV Owners thing on Facebook).

goz83

Went back through the NCT this morning. The tyre did the job. Improvement of -6 so the offset was +14. Pleased with that.

Better fit those shims. The alignment is still way off. +14 is still a shocking value and it probably actually affects the range of the car.

zilog_jones

I'd imagine it would cause uneven wear on the tyres as well?

goz83

I received a letter from the Nissan garage I bought the car from. It says my Warranty expires 27/03/2018

I will have to make a couple of calls and check this out.

goz83

goz83 wrote: »

I received a letter from the Nissan garage I bought the car from. It says my Warranty expires 27/03/2018

I will have to make a couple of calls and check this out.

Excellent timing!

goz83

So it's not from the garage I bought the car from, it's from Nissan Care Extended Warranty. It seems I was given an extended warranty when I bought the car and it expires in March. Well thank fcuk I went through the NCT early. I'm going to drop into the local Nissan dealership and see what the story is.

Gumbo

goz83 wrote: »

So it's not from the garage I bought the car from, it's from Nissan Care Extended Warranty. It seems I was given an extended warranty when I bought the car and it expires in March. Well thank fcuk I went through the NCT early. I'm going to drop into the local Nissan dealership and see what the story is.

Excellent!
Please keep us in the loop.

goz83

kceire wrote: »

Excellent!
Please keep us in the loop.

Booked in for Monday. Presumably they will want to check it out. If they want to hold the car, I hope they sort me out with a courtesy car....preferably a Leaf

KCross

goz83 wrote: »

Booked in for Monday. Presumably they will want to check it out. If they want to hold the car, I hope they sort me out with a courtesy car....preferably a Leaf

Since you now have warranty, insist on a replacement beam.... don't settle for any of that shim kit stuff.

They have replaced a few already so they can't deny it being a problem that has never happened before.

goz83

The local Nissan dealer called me. Telling me the rear axle is well within limits. The technician claims that there is no word of other Leafs with the same issue and advised me to get 4 wheel alignment done. Seems like a fob off and I’m not happy.

@kcross, would you mind pm,in details of your own dealings with Nissan. Might be helpful if I can give some details of an axle replacement done here.

NIMAN

How would you know if you have this issue with your Leaf?

Will you only find out when it goes through the NCT?

KCross

goz83 wrote: »

The local Nissan dealer called me. Telling me the rear axle is well within limits. The technician claims that there is no word of other Leafs with the same issue and advised me to get 4 wheel alignment done. Seems like a fob off and I’m not happy.

@kcross, would you mind pm,in details of your own dealings with Nissan. Might be helpful if I can give some details of an axle replacement done here.

My dealings are listed here:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103796476&postcount=23

Its definitely a fob off. You can't do 4 wheel alignment on a Leaf! You can only adjust the front.

They told me that several had already been replaced before mine so your dealer just hasn't done it, but it has happened so Nissan Ireland in Dublin will be aware of it.

I'd start with going to your local tyre company and get a report from their laser alignment system. That will show definitively whether it is within spec or not. Then hand that report to your dealer. They can't argue with that.

goz83

It’s ridiculous that I have to spend money on 4 wheel alignment. They should have that equipment themselves.

KCross

goz83 wrote: »

It’s ridiculous that I have to spend money on 4 wheel alignment. They should have that equipment themselves.

I agree but bear in mind you don't need to do an alignment. All you need is to get them to put it on the machine and print the report. They don't have to do any adjustments. I got my local tyre guy to do that for €15, I think it was.

Most garages don't have the alignment gear and for him to say its all grand suggests he just eyeballed your new tyres and said its all OK! :rolleyes:

goz83

So when I took the call earlier, I had asked that the technician put in writing that the alignment was within spec, because I didn't accept that +14 was within the spec. He said that he would.

I collected the car a short while ago and by chance, the technician had taken a call from someone else in Nissan who told him that there was in fact a bulletin about the issue, but he didn't have access to it :rolleyes:

He said the first protocol is to do the shim kit and get the 4 wheel alignment done. If the shims resolve the issue, I will be satisfied with that, but as the warranty expires in a month, I will want to be sure it's a permanent resolution, so I wonder if there is anything else I should be doing. Would the fix be covered by an extended warranty?

Gumbo

What dealer are you dealing with Goz?
I emailed Nissan ireland asking about the issue and they told me :


Nissan Ireland (Nissan Ireland)
Feb 19, 09:09 GMT

Good Morning kceire,

Thank you for this email regarding your Nissan Leaf.

Please direct this request for a vehicle posture investigation to your servicing dealer, they will investigate and revert with their findings.

Please find a list of our Authorised Repairers to assist you locating your nearest one here.



Kind regards
Nissan Ireland Aftersales Team

goz83

kceire wrote: »

What dealer are you dealing with Goz?

PM sent

KCross

goz83 wrote: »

So when I took the call earlier, I had asked that the technician put in writing that the alignment was within spec, because I didn't accept that +14 was within the spec. He said that he would.

I collected the car a short while ago and by chance, the technician had taken a call from someone else in Nissan who told him that there was in fact a bulletin about the issue, but he didn't have access to it :rolleyes:

He said the first protocol is to do the shim kit and get the 4 wheel alignment done. If the shims resolve the issue, I will be satisfied with that, but as the warranty expires in a month, I will want to be sure it's a permanent resolution, so I wonder if there is anything else I should be doing. Would the fix be covered by an extended warranty?

I'd be iffy about the shim fix if I were you. If they have replaced the beam for others why should you be any different?

The shim fix will probably work but its the cheap option and surely not as good as a new beam? Also, why would this guy care either way. Its paid work for the dealer. They aren't paying for it, Nissan are, and you should get the same as others.

If they do go the shim route they need to do the 4 wheel alignment for you rather than saying... "off you go now and see how that works out"... you need to see a before and after alignment report.

Gumbo

KCross wrote: »

I'd be iffy about the shim fix if I were you. If they have replaced the beam for others why should you be any different?

The shim fix will probably work but its the cheap option and surely not as good as a new beam? Also, why would this guy care either way. Its paid work for the dealer. They aren't paying for it, Nissan are, and you should get the same as others.

If they do go the shim route they need to do the 4 wheel alignment for you rather than saying... "off you go now and see how that works out"... you need to see a before and after alignment report.

But can 4 wheel alignment be done?

KCross

kceire wrote: »

But can 4 wheel alignment be done?

You can put the car up on a 4 wheel alignment laser system, which all tyre companies have and get it to report the results.

You can only adjust the two front wheels and add shims to the back or change the beam.

What I'm saying is that once Nissan fix it (shims or new beam) that they give you a copy of the alignment report.

goz83

I haven't heard from my local Nissan garage. I expected to be called on Wednesday. I dropped into Atlas to get an alignment report, so I have that handy. I sent an email to Nissan Ireland to ask what their protocol was with regards to the fix. I mentioned the axle replacement and the shim kit fixes. I also told them that my local dealer confirmed a bulletin on the issue.

They replied to request a copy of the NCT fail sheet and my VIN. I sent the fail sheet and told them about it passing after changing a tyre. Lets see what they have to say.

My old man is seriously considering the new Leaf and keeps asking when it's available to view, but if I am not treated well by Nissan, he won't go near them.

Here's the alignment from this morning.

DrPhilG

Keep us informed.

The fact that a bulletin was issued and the shim kit is available surely is an admission that this is a common "known issue"?

It's out but not that bad really. The main problem is the toe out at the rear the axle which will affect the stability on the run: The rear will tramline and try to steer whenever tyre load changes at bumps etc. Should be easy enough to shim it to be perfect. This involves the rear hub to axle beam bolts to be loosened and followed by insertion of thin sheets of metal (shims) between the front edge of rear hub and the beam and then the bolts are retightened. Likewise the camber will be adjusted by shimming the top or the bottom edge.

The front left will also need a camber adjustment but on most of the cars the front can be adjusted at the strut to hub joint. If that adjustment is not possible it might need shimming too.

goz83

Yeah I really don't care if it's an axle, or shims. I just don't want to be changing tyres early, or failing the NCT when the tyre is perfectly legal...only worn on the one side.

So Nissan Ireland haven't been much help. The warranty I have is apparently a third party warranty, but it was sold by Nissan GB and the warranty company informed me of the impending expiry on behalf of Nissan GB. The warranty company are saying that the Nissan dealer only needs to call them to get the repair authorised and repaired, but Nissan Ireland are saying the third party warranty can't be used here :mad:

If I have to, I will drive up North to get it sorted, but this is ridiculous carry on. I had the warranty company send me a validation cert by email. It even has my Irish registration number on it!

DrPhilG

It really shouldn't be an issue of whether you're in warranty or not.

If this is a known issue with a large number of cars then Nissan should be repairing them free of charge.

I can see why Nissan Ireland are reluctant to do the work as the factory warranty is out and it might be lots of paper work involved for them to claim from UK. Your best option is get the work done in the North or alternatively forget about the warranty, get the shim kit from Nissan yourself and get the tyre place that did the alignment to shim your axle. It looks to be a very quick job, maybe a little bit of trial and error needed with the first shim to figure out what the effect of each of them is.

DrPhilG

Most cars discovering this though are doing it at NCT, meaning they are 4 years old and hence out of warranty.

I left my 141 car in Coleraine yesterday while I test drove the 40kwh and asked them to double check my warranty at the time. Expired June 17.

goz83

Update:

So my local Nissan garage contacted the warranty company regarding payment if they were to do the repair work. A different claims specialist has said that my warranty is void because I am based outside the UK. I rang and spoke to them and I was told the same thing. The claims specialist says his colleague did not understand I was based in ROI. I found this incredible, because that is the first thing I said when I rang them and I had the British plate number changed to an Irish one. I mentioned a number of times during two or three calls that my address is Dublin, Ireland (the address they have on file since the inception of the warranty). Needless to say, I am quite peed off about this change of view.

As I see it, the warranty was sold as part of the vehicle purchase. If it wasn't possible to use in ROI, I should not have been sold the product. A discount on the vehicle would have been preferable. The warranty expires March 27th. In January, they offered me a renewal, by letter, to my address in Dublin at a cost of £44.90 per month over 10 months. In my view, I was mis-sold a product I could not use.

I contacted the Nissan dealer in the UK to see if they could do anything. I have also got a quote for the shim-kit, including labour at €440. So, a refund of the warranty money would cover it. I may need to make a complaint to the ombudsman in the UK if the dealer in the UK can't do anything.

zilog_jones

TBH I would have always assumed a UK-issued warranty would be useless here unless you're willing to take the car back to the UK - the only thing valid would be whatever was issued by Nissan Europe. However, it looks like the dealer mis-sold you this one...

goz83

And the dealer in the UK just called me back and said that I would have to bring the car to northern Ireland to use the warranty. I told him that the warranty company had already said I could not bring the car to the north...or anywhere, because the warranty was void. They haven't confirmed in writing that it's void though, even though I specifically requested it. So, I will send a complaint to the motor ombudsman in London and see what they think.

goz83

This is still ongoing. Motor Ombudsman will be about 5-6 weeks replying according to the email. I have put together a timeline with paper-trail. The warranty company are claiming they had technical difficulties on the day I called about the warranty, so the call was not recorded :rolleyes:

During that call, I made the whole situation clear, explaining I live in ROI and my address was in ROI when I purchased the car and gave my ROI address for export and for the warranty policy. They have since confirmed the policy void....then they suspended it after a couple more emails......then they cancelled it after more emails and sent a refund to the dealership.....finally, after more emails, they confirmed the refund figure (less than half what they charge private individuals). They are blaming training issues for the mistake. Some of what they are saying is incredible. So, I have made a suggestion that many more policy holders would be in the same boat as me and I would be inclined to look into that. Lets see what they say.

I have emailed the manager at the nissan dealership who says he will pass the complaint to the quality team. I have only requested the cost of the shim-kit repair and nothing else, which I think is reasonable.

Years ago I was in a similar situation with Three and I was mis-sold a plan. This is when video calls were brand new. They advertised x amount of video minutes and then withdrew them after a couple of months and continued charging me. The plan was branded as video calls and they tried to say it was only a name and not an indication of the types of calls the minutes applied to. Not only did I get out of my plan, thanks to comreg, but a week later....all their advertising of that plan was scrapped. Must have been costly.

I'm now like a dog with bone. I can't stand companies playing games like this.

goz83

So I emailed the manager on the Friday of the BH weekend for an update. He said he would update me after the BH and he did. He agreed to have the repair covered at my local Nissan garage. I got called a couple of times by my local dealer to confirm the UK garage was covering it and the shim-kit is now on order. All looking good so far.

goz83

I left the car into windsor raheny yesterday morning at 9 as it was scheduled for 9:30. My dash cam showed it was not moved until about 2pm to the workshop.:rolleyes:

Was funny, the mechanic couldn’t find the parking brake and shouted a few obscenities. If only he knew I could hear every word. Every time the car was moved, I was notified. The chap was doing 100 on the howth road showing off to his colleague and talking sh1te

Was supposed to be ready yesterday. They called me to say it was... but when I arrived, it wasn’t. They had trouble doing the tracking and gave me a lift home. No courtesy car :mad:

I collected this afternoon. Obviously there is no noticeable difference but I am glad it’s done. Was interesting to see what goes on behind the scenes.

gctest50

goz83 wrote: »

............

Was interesting to see what goes on behind the scenes.

same ?

tedpan wrote: »

Ok, I understand, it's electric, but they're not slow cars.

Here's a partial clip, I'm sure you wouldn't like your 1 year old car to be driven like this..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXWkKoMa6wQ

KCross

goz83 wrote: »

I left the car into windsor raheny yesterday morning at 9 as it was scheduled for 9:30. My dash cam showed it was not moved until about 2pm to the workshop.:rolleyes:

Was funny, the mechanic couldn’t find the parking brake and shouted a few obscenities. If only he knew I could hear every word. Every time the car was moved, I was notified. The chap was doing 100 on the howth road showing off to his colleague and talking sh1te

Was supposed to be ready yesterday. They called me to say it was... but when I arrived, it wasn’t. They had trouble doing the tracking and gave me a lift home. No courtesy car :mad:

I collected this afternoon. Obviously there is no noticeable difference but I am glad it’s done. Was interesting to see what goes on behind the scenes.

Did they give you a tracking alignment report showing it’s fixed?

Otherwise you won’t know it’s fixed until you wear off some tyre.

goz83

gctest50 wrote: »

same ?

GPS clocked them at 90....100 indicated. I’ll know where to send the ticket

KCross wrote: »

Did they give you a tracking alignment report showing it’s fixed?

Otherwise you won’t know it’s fixed until you wear off some tyre.

They are very disorganised. No report. But I did ask for the invoice by email and I did see the mechanic with the shim-kit. The car was on the ramp for alignment no less than 4 times. Apparently it was the front they had trouble with....but I had this done in March iirc.

I’ll ask for the alignment report too.

mickdw

Front left camber is off and rear right camber also on origin report so possible why they had difficulty.
I might be completely wrong but it's possible that the old alignment has been setup to adjust for bad alignment at the rear resulting in a small steering angle being applied for straight ahead. That would give uneven camber.... assuming nothing is bent in the front.