Audax bikes/components/gear

py

Doozerie's post a few weeks ago was well timed for me as I'd started to do some research around purchasing a dedicated Audax bike and equipment with the goal of doing some audax over the coming years with the eventual goal of doing PBP/LEL once the offspring have become a little more manageable for me to get away for an extended cycling trip.

I'd be very interested in what people have used which has or hasn't worked for them when doing audax or touring. This could be your bike, clothes, lights.. anything really that has helped through the long days on the bike.

rollingscone

I'm only a feeble newborn Audaxer (2 flat 200s) but kit wise I'd say an insulated Gilet (I sold a bunch of jerseys and other bits to pay for my Rapha Brevet insulated) is a great investment for winter events as it basically lets you carry a winter jacket without the risk of overheating on the climbs and freezing when your sweat cools.

Also learning from Cdaly on the last one a long merino type neck warmer is super versatile and more breathable than fleecy synthetics.

cdaly_

I'd say first thing to do is get out on a few audax rides on your most comfortable current bike. You won't really discover what you need until you've tried out what you have.

That said, things that work for me:

Tyres:
Fast-rolling wide (35mm) Vittoria Voyager Hyper folding at around 50psi. Very comfy, good puncture resistance and folding so I can carry a spare tyre.

Luggage:
I use a cheap 'Oxford' handlebar bag, somewhat modified. Opens forward so I can get at food while pedalling.
Stem mount for smartphone (my satnav).
I also use a 3 litre drybag to carry extra clothes, particularly if it's going to be a wet event.
On a long event (600k upwards) I also carry a rear rack bag.
On tour, as well as the above, I use a single pannier and a number of tents/drybags to carry sleeping bag, hammock/canopy/tent et al.

Lights:
Hub dynamo, german spec front light (points the light at the road, not the sky), B&M 'topline brake plus' rear light (good lighting with standlight, brake light)

Power:
I have used a 22,000 mAh powerbank from Aldi over the last three years. Held almost enough charge to get me through Paris-Brest-Paris in 2015.
I now have an Igaro D2 USB charger which plugs into the dynamo and keeps smartphone charged alongside my lights.

Bike:
A Thorn Club Tour with light touring steel fork. This is a bit heavier than their 'Audax' model but takes the wider tyres I want and gets used for a bit of touring also. It's also my commuter.

Clothes:
SPD sandals are the business. Cool in the summer, warm in winter paired with Sealskinz waterproof socks. They dry out quickly after the rain so you don't spend the rest of the ride squelching.
Layers Layers Layers.


Now, quit shopping and get out and ride...

NamelessPhil

I've ridden 200km and 300km events with the same clothing and spares that I'd bring out on a club spin. I do have a specific Audax oriented bike as detailed in Doozerie's post, with dynamo hub and a pannier rack. I went for a pannier rack rather than a seat post mounted rack for reasons of stability.

I use an Ortlieb front roller pannier bag for some 400km events and definitely anything above 600km. It's completely waterproof and allows me to bring enough kit. Attached are two photos, one is of all the kit I packed into one Ortlieb bag for LEL 1400km. I'm small and female and my clothes pack down small. I had to carry enough stuff for a week including some normal clothes for travelling.

On the bike I have a Lidl smartphone holder that I use for route sheets. It's ugly but showerproof. Instead of a top tube bag I have an Apidura pouch, it'll hold food, a bottle or a place to stow gloves or a phone or glasses. It also allows me to charge my phone. https://www.apidura.com/product/backcountry-food-pouch-plus-0.8l/

ford2600

py wrote: »

Doozerie's post a few weeks ago was well timed for me as I'd started to do some research around purchasing a dedicated Audax bike and equipment with the goal of doing some audax over the coming years with the eventual goal of doing PBP/LEL once the offspring have become a little more manageable for me to get away for an extended cycling trip.

I'd be very interested in what people have used which has or hasn't worked for them when doing audax or touring. This could be your bike, clothes, lights.. anything really that has helped through the long days on the bike.

You'll get riders on bikes with ever possible eventuality catered for (and the weight of that) and I've seen guys turn up on hard 300's without a thought in the world given to it with race bikes and single 500ml bidon.

You'll really have to see what works for you.

People always obsess about gear rather than skills; you can get one with a credit card the other takes time and effort. I'd be inclined to learn
*how to fix and maintain your bike, so that you don't need to rely on anyone else
*learn how to navigate; whether that's a route sheet or satnav or both

For up to 400km, especially in summer with long days, a dynamo isn't needed but on multi days the need to charge is another stress most could do without, so they do make more sense for PBP type event. If you are fast you shouldn't need any light for 300's in summer.

For simplicity on navigation a track (not a route) on a double AA powered etrex is pretty bomb proof. On WAWA at least 3 riders continued on in Castlemaine to Tralee rather than head out peninsula, because they couldn't use their garmin; that is soul destroying

Koobcam

Don't think anyone's mentioned mudguards yet. For navigation purposes, a battery pack plugged into a Garmin will get you through multi-day events. I had one that fit perfectly under my stem, just stick it on with some electrical tape. And it's no harm to bring a backup navigation device too, just in case your Garmin dies for no apparent reason. Similarly, some sort of offline backup of your route on the phone would give you a further fallback option. No harm either to mark down bike shops or garages on the route in case you need a bit more than a multi-tool to get you home. For lights, I always used to bring two front and two rear lights, plus a large capacity battery pack-handy for charging the phone too. Luggage wise, I generally used to ride with an oversized Ortlieb saddle bag and I would generally pack a good raincoat and a full change of gear. Oh, and one spare fold up tyre (in addition to the usual spares kit you'd take on any spin: two spare tubes, a load of patches and glue,multi-tool, spare quick links, chain removal tool, levers, pair of surgical gloves...). Food-wise, I would just always make sure to have a few bits in my jersey pockets and then just get whatever I needed at shops on the way.

Weepsie

I've a similar set up to cdaly, but my intended audax days have not really happened.

Vittoria Voyager Hyper 37 mm, mudguards, B+M Dynamo light. Have a B+M Dynamo charger that I've never used and a the same rear light as above.

Have loads of bag options too, handlbar, rear, panniers etc etc.


What sort of brake set up is what I'm interested in. I'm losing the will with my canti brakes as they are needing to be adjusted constantly, no matter how little or how much I've ridden

Alek

I started audaxing on an old Peugeot Ph11 converted to a flat bar, 8 speed. Done a few with just a saddle bag (repair kit) and possibly they were my fastest ever... Newbie dedication, I guess

I don't really think that a 200-300k brevet with regular controls (well stocked on food usually) asks you to carry much more than a repair kit, pac-lite rain jacket and a tenner for emergency food / water in case you bonk.

Now I rather do solo 200k rides, I tend to carry all the food and drink with me (to avoid buying stupid stuff when I'm hungry, like two scones, two donuts and two cokes that almost killed me some time ago), plus a largeish camera and the usual repair stuff.

For convenience I use fully rainproof Ortlieb handlebar bag 6M - there is nothing better for quick access while riding -, a magnesia bag strapped to the stem for snacking and a larger Ortlieb saddle bag for the stuff I'll unlikely use.

py

Fantastic information so far, thanks all. My initial list contained most of what was mentioned so far. Really like the look and sounds of the food pouches

With regards to wheels, do people usually stick to low profile alloy/steel rims? Anyone tried a slightly deeper depth wheel, say 30-50mm on longer audax? Anyone opted for carbon rims?

Hoping to get a bike with hydraulic brakes as they've been fantastic on my commuter.

Grassey

py wrote: »

With regards to wheels, do people usually stick to low profile alloy/steel rims? Anyone tried a slightly deeper depth wheel, say 30-50mm on longer audax? Anyone opted for carbon rims?

My first (and only - for unrelated reasons) audax I did on my carbon race bike with 60mm carbon clinchers and 23mm tyres, simply because I left it until loading the car to check was the bike I planned to use in cycleable condition, and then I didnt have time to change tyres on the race bike.

Sure it was graaaaandddd

paul a newman

Most people use mavic open pro rims or similar, with 36 spokes, mainly due to reliability and comfort, carbon rims are fine for racing/ sportives, but not for 10 hour plus riding. A lot of the roads used in audax events are quiet roads with little traffic, and some are pot holed. Hence you need to be able to fix a broken spoke on the side of the road, so most of us carry a few extra spokes and a spoke key tool.

Alek

Hence you need to be able to fix a broken spoke on the side of the road, so most of us carry a few extra spokes and a spoke key tool.

Jaysis, how often does it happen? I've popped 2 spokes in my whole life...

brownian

I've only done 2 so far, but here's what I did

- rode my usual carbon bike, with 30mm alloy wheels, 25mm tubeless tyres. I do have a 'comfort' setup - Berthoud leather saddle, slightly bouncy stem (from redshift), Canyon's split seatpost, nice fat shorts.
- added a basic handlebar bag with a dry thermal top and much more food than I needed. As noted above, there's generally a food option about every 50k, at least on the two 200s I've been on.
- lights front and back. A battery pack, or spare batteries. I like to run daylight running lights, so two lights in each direction.
- a decent waterproof jacket. If it's going to rain, then a gabba or similar instead of a jersey. I have both the Stolen Goat Orkaan and the Gabba, and neither is perfect. But both are better than a standard jersey, and less sweaty and sticky than a real waterproof.
- a beanie or waterproof cap
- navigation with a garmin or a wahoo element is much less stressful than with a phone - much longer battery life, no issues with wet, you can read it when it's sunny, etc. I prefer the wahoo, but lots of folks love their garmins. As noted above, some sort of offline, paper-based backup has to be good. But...both my rides so far have been in a group, with navigation greatly simplified.
- GLASSES. Audax roads can be muddy. Not everyone has mudguards. Took me days to be able to blink comfortably, after my first audax.

...go for it. It's great fun.

ford2600

brownian wrote: »

As noted above, there's generally a food option about every 50k, at least on the two 200s I've been on.
.

"Audax is a Latin adjective meaning "bold, daring""

Where is audax going with the food stops, it's not a sportive. It is supposed to be difficult and require self reliance. It not like it's hard to find food of some description on your average 200.

Other than Inner Ring (I think I've only ridden it as a pernament) it is a thing seen on Dublin events only in my experience(MB 200 and Geimhridh 200)

I'm all for growing the sport but not at the cost of making it easier; if its too hard maybe sportives would be more suitable if it's not hard enough try RAI/RAAM/transcontinental or whatever.

Rant over

brownian

ford2600 wrote: »

"Audax is a Latin adjective meaning "bold, daring""

Where is audax going with the food stops, it's not a sportive. It is supposed to be difficult and require self reliance. It not like it's hard to find food of some description on your average 200.

Other than Inner Ring (I think I've only ridden it as a pernament) it is a thing seen on Dublin events only in my experience(MB 200 and Geimhridh 200)

I'm all for growing the sport but not at the cost of making it easier; if its too hard maybe sportives would be more suitable if it's not hard enough try RAI/RAAM/transcontinental or whatever.

Rant over

Sorry, I mean that you can usually buy food in a shop or a petrol station every couple of hours. I'm not sure it's a lot more 'daring' to buy a coffee and a muffin than to be given one at a food stop...but I do take your point about self-reliance being part of the 'spirit' of Audax, as far as I have read about it.

ford2600

brownian wrote: »

Sorry, I mean that you can usually buy food in a shop or a petrol station every couple of hours. I'm not sure it's a lot more 'daring' to buy a coffee and a muffin than to be given one at a food stop...but I do take your point about self-reliance being part of the 'spirit' of Audax, as far as I have read about it.

It just seems to be getting more popular, I don't know why organisers bother. There is enough work in it as it is for one person.

On 400km events, especially for full value riders, finding places open for last 100km or so can be a challenge; Beara 400 route, Nealon's 400 in Mayo also

Alek

Other than Inner Ring (I think I've only ridden it as a pernament) it is a thing seen on Dublin events only in my experience(MB 200 and Geimhridh 200)

I've only ridden Dublin-based brevets, thought its a norm to have food on stops...

Not that I can't go without it or something, but not in the sense in which you can!

guanciale

The option of food is nice but not necessary. I have been fed on
Dying Cow
Dying Light
Tara 200
Inner ring has food because there is no where to get water from 110k to 180k.

On the Long Heron I controlled at a pub and had a few fantastic pints of Clonmels finest.

As to requirements. Cycle a bike that isncomfortable and forget everything else.
Ive used carbon, Ti and aluminium.
I dont carry spokes. Twice have had issues.
Once ai broke a spoke and just carried on.
Other one I destroyed rear derailleur and a wheel.
I changed chain, and ripped off RD to set up as SS. The wheel was capit however so I would have needed a jig to rebuild - not worth it on a 200, I can see why it would be on a 600+

cdaly_

Weepsie wrote: »

What sort of brake set up is what I'm interested in. I'm losing the will with my canti brakes as they are needing to be adjusted constantly, no matter how little or how much I've ridden

I have Avid Shorty Ultimate cantis on the front which seem to just work. I've an Avid BB7 disc brake on the rear which is super.

The Canti on the front is because Mr Thorn doesn't believe in disc brakes on a springy steel fork as you lose all of the benefits of the springy steel.

doozerie

Caveat first, I don’t typically ride audax events (one audax nut in the household already exceeds the national quaota, it’s probably even illegal in some countries), but I do the odd long-ish ride. So I’ll defer to the real audaxers on some of the more specific questions, but some of the more general questions apply to any form of cycling really.

Base layers
My preference for years has been merino base layers, heavier long-sleeved ones (or an extra layer of regular weight ones) in cold weather, light and short-sleeved ones in milder weather. Merino is great at helping regulate your temperature, it can help keep you cool when its warm and warm when its cold, and it also provides good windproofing.

However, if it gets wet either from rain or sweat, it will remain wet. That’s perfectly fine when you are moving and your body temperature is remaining relatively constant, but if you stop for a few minutes at a control or for food you might struggle to get warm again once you are moving if it is cool or cold. I generally don’t stop unless absolutely necessary and then merino works very well in pretty much all conditions, but I wouldn’t choose it if I expected to be stopping for any length of time on a wet ride.

These days I still use merino for really cold (dry) days but use polypropylene base layers otherwise as they wick very well so tend to leave your skin surface dry, and they insulate well enough too.

I wear a merino beanie though for all cool or cold rides, regardless of whether it’s raining, other materials can make my head itch. And merino socks work well too even when soaked as long as you have a decent windproof outer layer such as overshoes.

Oh, and from my experience, all merinos are definitely not equal. Poor quality merino (poor quality wool, or wool mixed with synthetic materials) itches, smells, doesn’t regulate temperature anything like as well, and is basically rubbish. Helly Hansen’s Warm Freeze top is the only blend of merino plus synthetic fibres I’ve come across that has worked well for me but all the rest of my merino is made entirely of good quality merino.

Protection from rain
I’ve tried a variety of light rain jackets over the years, from the budget end to the “it costs bleedin’ wha?!” end. It has taken me this long to finally accept the basic fact that “fully breathable” and “fully waterproof” inevitably fight it out with each other, they just can’t co-exist comfortably - the more a jacket is of one, the less it is of the other. Pick your preference of the two and choose accordingly. For example, go for a Gabba (or any of the many alternatives) is you want good breathability with some water resistance, choose a “conventional” rain jacket if you want the opposite.

Personally I’ll choose breathable over waterproof every time. That’s because I run a bit hot so in a a less breathable jacket I sweat a lot and end up soaked anyway and then I can’t take the jacket off unless the temperature rises by a few degrees or I’ll get very cold. So for me, as a general rule it’s better to just wear a decent breathable water resistant jersey or jacket (from Castelli, Sportful, Parentini, …), with a polypropylene base layer, and even if the rain gets through eventually, my body temperature remains reasonably constant and comfortable.

That assumes I won’t be stopping for any length of time mid-ride though. The same problem arises in that scenario as for merino above. So if I thought that scenario might arise I’d opt to carry a relatively breathable waterproof in a jersey/jacket pocket - maybe GoreTex or eVent fabric, I’ve had more success with the latter but I believe they are each suited best to different conditions. Gore are really pushing their latest material (called Gore One, I think), claiming it’s the most waterproof and breathable yet - it may well be, but it’s a significant investment, and besides, they made those claims for previous generations of their various materials too and I’ve found the ones I’ve tried to fall short of some of those claims.

Rims
Mavic Open Pro have been extremely popular for years, but while I used to like them a lot myself too I believe their quality has dropped in recent years. Many people continue to use them without problems though, despite the issues I had with them, so my assessment is obviously subjective.

My allegiance shifted to Ambrosio rims a few years back, which always had a good reputation too but just didn’t seem so prevalent. I find them a little easier to build wheels with, and the pair (of Excellight model, arguably a bit “light” for training wheels) I’ve had on my winter bike for about 5 years now have been entirely problem free.

If you want a relatively cheap option though, I built a pair of disc wheels for my commute bike with Exal LX17 a few years back and they have been very reliable too. Those rims were about €20 each, so less than half the price of the Excellights or Open Pros, and they’ll take 32mm tyres (and probably 35mm). Do check the capacity of whatever rim you are considering though, to ensure they’ll take tyres as narrow or wide as you’ll want.

36-hole rims are a good option as mentioned earlier. They build into heavier wheels but should be more robust. Equally useful is that breaking one spoke is likely to lead to a less severe buckle than on a 32-hole (or less) wheel. I’ve done long rides on wheels where the loss of one spoke would have left me with no choice but to walk home, and I’ve never had problems, but it’s clearly a valid risk and one to consider when making your wheel choice.

Food
Everyone’s take on this will be different but I’m in the camp of not eating much on the bike, but that’s a factor of my dietary choices off the bike as much as anything else.

As above, I prefer not to stop on a ride, I’ll potentially get cold, it can be hard to get going again, I might have to actually talk to actual people (fcuk sake!), etc., etc. So if I’m on a long ride where I think I’ll need food I prefer to bring something with me and eat it on the bike. I like pecans or brazil nuts - though brazil nuts have a horrible tendency for some of their “skin’ to catch in the back of the throat and lead to comical coughing fits complete with red face, tears from eyes, head contents exiting rapidly through the nose, and everything, which doesn’t exactly convey a picture of healthy food choices.

Pump
I prefer a pump over CO2 cartridges, and for a long event I’d want a decent pump that can inflate a tyre without requiring a marathon effort. So personally I’d g for a decent full length (or close) pump as opposed to any of the mini pump variants.

Tools
There are lots of bike problems you can fix at the side of the road, and some that you just can’t. I think of all the former things for my winter bike and decide what minimal set of tools I need to be able to tackle them.I then look for a multitool to suit.

It surprised me the number of multitools that didn’t fit my needs either because they lacked something relatively basic (e.g. flat head screwdriver, torx head), or because they bundled in the kitchen sink in the form of tools I’d never use and therefore don’t want. I have a different set of portable tools for each bike as a result of different groupsets on each bike. In addition to the multitool I carry a small chain splitter and an appropriate spoke key for the wheels I have on the bike.

I add to that with 2 spare tubes, decent tyre levers (some tyre levers look the part but explode at the first sign of being used), self-adhesive patches, a puncture repair kit, and a tyre boot.

cdaly_

py wrote: »

Hoping to get a bike with hydraulic brakes as they've been fantastic on my commuter.

One question about hydraulic brakes is do they fail at all? If so, can you repair them on the roadside?

You'll easily change a brake cable if one snaps...

timmyjimmy

Sorry, a bit off topic. Could someone tell me if you have to do audax on your own or do people do it in a group? I've audaxed but i'm quite intrigued!

The Ging and I

You can ride it on your own or stay with who ever you want. Usually you leave in a group and it breaks into smaller groups which is usually dictated by the speed you are prepared to travel.

Koobcam

cdaly_ wrote: »

One question about hydraulic brakes is do they fail at all? If so, can you repair them on the roadside?

You'll easily change a brake cable if one snaps...

A bleed kit and some spare hydraulic fluid are almost as easy to carry as a spare brake cable, and the likelihood of failure is pretty low in either case

Koobcam

timmyjimmy wrote: »

Sorry, a bit off topic. Could someone tell me if you have to do audax on your own or do people do it in a group? I've audaxed but i'm quite intrigued!

Depends on your goals. Some people will ride in groups by design, others might have set themselves specific pacing targets so they can finish in a given time. Personally, I prefer to keep to a target pace, but at the same time it's nice to have company at times.

doozerie

Koobcam wrote: »

A bleed kit and some spare hydraulic fluid are almost as easy to carry as a spare brake cable, and the likelihood of failure is pretty low in either case

I think it's a valid concern. Of all the things that could potentially go wrong on a bike, losing effective braking has to be up there with the things that you can't afford to be unable to resolve at the side of the road (unless you have the option of ringing for a lift or are willing to pay for a taxi home from the bowels of somewhere or other).

As you say, you can carry a bleed kit and fluid (plus ideally something that allows you to prise the pads apart if you've been unfortunate or careless enough to pull the brake lever with the wheel out of the frame), but it's a relatively tricky task that really requires knowledge and understanding of how the brake system work.

That's not to say that swapping a wired brake cable is always a simple task either, of course, depending on where the cable snapped it could be tricky to remove the remnant of the old cable to allow the new cable to be installed. Plus, lack of any technical know-how could scupper someone even if it was a straightforward break, so it's not a simple case of cable = good and hydraulic = bad.

Personally, I wouldn't undertake an unsupported endurance event unless I was happy that I could tackle all of the most likely serious problems that could arise on the bike. For me I'd rank hydraulic repairs as being tougher than mechanical repairs, but that's at least partly because I have limited experience of hydraulics.

I suspect though that there are people taking part in such events who are unprepared for even the most basic of issues, who would be in trouble if even a (wired) brake cable snapped "cleanly". For such people it wouldn't matter whether they were using hydraulics or not, essentially. For everyone else though, I think it's a worthwhile exercise to think about what could go wrong and how/if you could deal with it on the roadside, and then base bike/component/tool choices around that.

Carawaystick

ford2600 wrote: »

"Audax is a Latin adjective meaning "bold, daring""

Where is audax going with the food stops, it's not a sportive. It is supposed to be difficult and require self reliance. It not like it's hard to find food of some description on your average 200.

Its the food at the end that I like! Rasher sandwiches in Stamullin in Meath or a feed in Killester

I've also got tea, cake and sandwiches on the audaxes mentioned and also in the Burren and Yola in Wexford. Both times there were shops or cafes within short distances to buy my own, but it is a bit more sociable to have a chat with the organizer while getting your brevet signed.

Gear wise, I'd check if your lighting allows repairing a puncture in the dark easily

Armwarmers and leg/knee warmers allow easier temperature adjusting.