PSC PPS Number Trauma - mywelfare.ie issues

rcard

Hi all, 
I am having some problems booking a PSC appt! 

The reason I need to book this is to I need to book a PPS appointment for my kids - we are returning to Ireland in March 2018 and need PPS numbers to start school in April.

I have set up a basic account. 

So in order to make this PPS appointments I need to verify my basic account. Which requires a PSC. So I need to make a PSC appointment. So I can make a PPS appt.

I cant make a PSC appt for the kids as they dont have PPS numbers. 

First question:

So I think I will I have to: 
1. Make my PSC appt THEN
2. Make their PPS appts THEN
3. Make their PSC appts?

If so, this seems to be an overly complex bureaucratic arrangement. Is there a better way?

Second question:

Anyway so i click through to make an appt to mywelfare - I get to stage 4... and I cant select a county - I have tried chrome and safari and I cant get past this stage. the drop downs dont seem to work - has anyone else has this problem and could suggest a workaround?

Many thanks
Ruth

splinter65

I'm moving to Ireland soon - how do I get a Personal Public Service Number?
You cannot apply for a PPS number before you arrive in Ireland. You must be living in Ireland to apply for a PPS number. Before you can be allocated a PPS number, you must show that one is required for a transaction with a specified body.

You will be asked to produce documentary evidence of identity and residence in Ireland. Different documentary evidence will be required, depending on your nationality. A complete list of documents required as evidence of your identity is available.

I am not resident in Ireland but I need a PPS number - how do I get it?
In some cases people who are not resident in Ireland may need a PPS number. For example, someone who is a beneficiary under an Irish will may need to supply a PPS number before a grant of probate can issue.

The DEASP's Client Identity Services (CIS) provide a service for non-resident applicants who cannot attend at a designated PPS Registration Centre and who need a PPS number. If you want to use this service, you must show documentary evidence that you need a PPS number for a transaction with a specified body. You cannot use this exceptional application process if you are living in or intend to relocate to Ireland for any period of time. Audits of PPS applications are carried out periodically and you may be asked for additional information.

If you are living in Northern Ireland or the United Kingdom and are working in the Republic of Ireland (a frontier worker) you apply for a PPS number in the normal way at a designated PPS Number Allocation Centre.

I need a PPS number for a deceased person - how do I get this?
Occasionally a PPS number may be required for a deceased person, usually when dealing with grant of probate.

In such cases, you should send a copy of the death certificate and details about why the PPS number is required to the DEASP's Client Identity Services - the address is below.

Rules
To get a PPS number, you will need to fill out an application form in the PPS number centre, provide evidence of your identity and evidence of why you need a PPS number allocated. You must also provide proof of your address.

Evidence of your identity
If you are: You will need to produce the following as evidence of your identity:
An Irish citizen born in the Republic of Ireland
The long version of your birth certificate
and

Photographic ID, such as your passport or driving licence
An Irish citizen via naturalisation or Foreign Birth Registration
Your current passport or Certificate of Naturalisation
or

Your Foreign Birth Registration certificate and Irish or UK driving licence or Irish learner driving permit
An Irish citizen born in Northern Ireland or a UK citizen
Current passport
or

Your birth certificate showing your mother’s birth name or adoption certificate and current driving licence
EU citizens (other than Irish and UK) Current passport or national identity card
Non-EU citizens Current passport
Evidence of your address
You need to show evidence of your address. You can use any of the following documents to do this (it must show your name and address):

A household utility bill
An official letter/document
A financial statement
Property lease or tenancy agreement
Confirmation of address by a third party such as a hotel/hostel administrator or manager, school principal/administrator or accommodation/property owner*.
*If you are staying with friends or relatives, an original household bill plus a note from the bill holder confirming your residency at the bill address is acceptable. This note can be written on the bill itself.

PPS numbers for children
Children born in Ireland are usually given a Personal Public Service Number (PPS number) when their birth is registered with the General Register Office (GRO). This means you do not need to apply for a PPS number for an Irish-born child. However, if the birth is not registered within 3 months, a parent/guardian must make an application - see 'Child application' below.

A PPS number is not automatically allocated if both parents' addresses are outside of the State. If you need a PPS number in such a case then you must apply at a PPS Number Allocation Centre.

PPS numbers for children living in, but not born in Ireland, must be applied for by the parent/guardian. One of the parents/guardians must have a PPS number for the child to be registered and linked with their data.

Child application
The parent, foster parent, guardian or school representative should attend the PPS Number Allocation Centre with the child, and provide evidence of his/her own identity, the identity of the child, evidence of the requirement for a PPS number, and evidence of the relationship between the parent/guardian and the child. Evidence of address should also be provided. The DEASP may make further enquiries where it is considered necessary to confirm the relationship between the child and the person requesting a PPS number.

A person aged less than 16 years is considered to be a child for PPS number allocation purposes.

PPS number fraud control
The DEASP monitors identity fraud issues, helps to draw up procedures for processing applications and investigates suspect documents. Staff in social welfare offices are required to check the authenticity of supporting documents and refer doubtful cases for checking by document fraud experts.

How to apply
Only the DEASP can provide you with a Personal Public Service Number (PPS number) . You can find a list of PPS Number Allocation Centres on the DEASP's website. You should attend your nearest PPS Number Allocation Centre. Please note that some Centres operate an appointment only system. You should contact your local centre to check if an appointment is required. A Public Services Card is usually issued when you are allocated a PPS number. This means that you will also have your photograph taken when you attend a Centre for registration of a new PPS number. It will take approximately 4-5 days for notification of your PPS number to arrive after your appointment.

Online appointments
If you want to get a PPS number or to be registered for a Public Services Card, you can now make an appointment online at mywelfare.ie.

You will first need to register with the site. To do this you need a mobile phone number and two email addresses (a main address and an alternate address).

carmen2222

I'm just quoting what seems to be a thorough list of required documentation that is acceptable for verification at the Tralee offices in person appointment. Nowhere is it stated that one must have a cellphone to check the individual is the right person attached to the photo they will take for the card. I swapped out my SIM card on my blackberry to use in Ireland when I am not in my usual country so didn't know my phone number. I did have two passports with my pictures in each. EU and other citizenship (where I live). I don't have an Irish driving license. I do have another license. In order to avoid probate problems all married couples need to have both names on all their owned properties. The LPT only has one name and to get the other name on it one must have a PSN. Similarly ebilling, banking etc should have two parties as signatories. My dilemma is that bills need to be paid on time. I want to keep my personal data secure from breaches. Apparently the telephone is a problem for accessing the offices. No one is responding via email re: mailed documents. The contact us website renders a server error. I'm resorting to online posting to record failings and hope for resolution from your crowd sourcing knowledge base.


Rules
To get a PPS number, you will need to fill out an application form in the PPS number centre, provide evidence of your identity and evidence of why you need a PPS number allocated. You must also provide proof of your address.

Evidence of your identity
If you are: You will need to produce the following as evidence of your identity:
An Irish citizen born in the Republic of Ireland
The long version of your birth certificate
and

Photographic ID, such as your passport or driving licence
An Irish citizen via naturalisation or Foreign Birth Registration
Your current passport or Certificate of Naturalisation
or

Your Foreign Birth Registration certificate and Irish or UK driving licence or Irish learner driving permit
An Irish citizen born in Northern Ireland or a UK citizen
Current passport
or

Your birth certificate showing your mother’s birth name or adoption certificate and current driving licence
EU citizens (other than Irish and UK) Current passport or national identity card
Non-EU citizens Current passport
Evidence of your address
You need to show evidence of your address. You can use any of the following documents to do this (it must show your name and address):

A household utility bill
An official letter/document
A financial statement
Property lease or tenancy agreement
Confirmation of address by a third party such as a hotel/hostel administrator or manager, school principal/administrator or accommodation/property owner*.
*If you are staying with friends or relatives, an original household bill plus a note from the bill holder confirming your residency at the bill address is acceptable. This note can be written on the bill itself.

PPS numbers for children
Children born in Ireland are usually given a Personal Public Service Number (PPS number) when their birth is registered with the General Register Office (GRO). This means you do not need to apply for a PPS number for an Irish-born child. However, if the birth is not registered within 3 months, a parent/guardian must make an application - see 'Child application' below.

A PPS number is not automatically allocated if both parents' addresses are outside of the State. If you need a PPS number in such a case then you must apply at a PPS Number Allocation Centre.

PPS numbers for children living in, but not born in Ireland, must be applied for by the parent/guardian. One of the parents/guardians must have a PPS number for the child to be registered and linked with their data.

Child application
The parent, foster parent, guardian or school representative should attend the PPS Number Allocation Centre with the child, and provide evidence of his/her own identity, the identity of the child, evidence of the requirement for a PPS number, and evidence of the relationship between the parent/guardian and the child. Evidence of address should also be provided. The DEASP may make further enquiries where it is considered necessary to confirm the relationship between the child and the person requesting a PPS number.

A person aged less than 16 years is considered to be a child for PPS number allocation purposes.

PPS number fraud control
The DEASP monitors identity fraud issues, helps to draw up procedures for processing applications and investigates suspect documents. Staff in social welfare offices are required to check the authenticity of supporting documents and refer doubtful cases for checking by document fraud experts.

How to apply
Only the DEASP can provide you with a Personal Public Service Number (PPS number) . You can find a list of PPS Number Allocation Centres on the DEASP's website. You should attend your nearest PPS Number Allocation Centre. Please note that some Centres operate an appointment only system. You should contact your local centre to check if an appointment is required. A Public Services Card is usually issued when you are allocated a PPS number. This means that you will also have your photograph taken when you attend a Centre for registration of a new PPS number. It will take approximately 4-5 days for notification of your PPS number to arrive after your appointment.

Online appointments
If you want to get a PPS number or to be registered for a Public Services Card, you can now make an appointment online at mywelfare.ie.

You will first need to register with the site. To do this you need a mobile phone number and two email addresses (a main address and an alternate address).[/QUOTE]

carmen2222

Further to the above what I did not have was a paper copy of evidence of a utility bill in my name. I could have given an electronic version of many other forms from their original source like the ownership of property but that wasn't allowed.
In summary, this in person presentation before a male gatekeeper was a terrible experience for me.
The application form should be online. All documents should be verified locally in the town closest and forwarded electronically.
I have nothing but bad attitude towards what this male privilege Ireland holding of power through rules made to insinuate wrongdoing.

splinter65

Hi Carmen
I’m afraid if you intended your observations on your dealing with DEASP to be seen by them here then they will not as this is just a chat room.
If you want to make comment or complaint then this is the address to write to
Communications and Customer Service Unit, Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection, Áras Mhic Dhiarmada, Store Street, Dublin 1.
I can garuntee that you will get a prompt response.

carmen2222

Thanks for that information and I'll certainly follow up on trying to resolve my query. But I think behind all that should be a quality of service that is across the board standard.

That would include having a message on the answering machine with a dedicated line for PPSN inquiries. The Tralee telephone is here: (066) 7149500 and when the offices are closed during holiday time a message indicating that would be standard procedure. The local offices are here: Godfrey Place, Tralee, Co. Kerry, V92 AK85 and after sending a posted letter with private documents to this location I have yet to see a response of receipt or an email confirmation.

So sending me further afield for more investigation is beyond what is promised on the website for its services to clients.

I am posting here for any comments of what actually might be useful and efficient for me from the public personal experience. Surely the phone system is not useful as it's always busy or not fully functional for dedicated PPSN. Someone should offer up an email address I could use.

splinter65

carmen2222 wrote: »

Thanks for that information and I'll certainly follow up on trying to resolve my query. But I think behind all that should be a quality of service that is across the board standard.

That would include having a message on the answering machine with a dedicated line for PPSN inquiries. The Tralee telephone is here: (066) 7149500 and when the offices are closed during holiday time a message indicating that would be standard procedure. The local offices are here: Godfrey Place, Tralee, Co. Kerry, V92 AK85 and after sending a posted letter with private documents to this location I have yet to see a response of receipt or an email confirmation.

So sending me further afield for more investigation is beyond what is promised on the website for its services to clients.

I am posting here for any comments of what actually might be useful and efficient for me from the public personal experience. Surely the phone system is not useful as it's always busy or not fully functional for dedicated PPSN. Someone should offer up an email address I could use.

There is a dedicated phone line for PPSN enquiries.
Client Identity Services
Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Shannon Lodge
Carrick-On-Shannon
Co. Leitrim

Tel: (071) 967 2616 (If calling from outside Ireland please call +353 71 967 2616)
Locall: 1890 927 999 (Note: the rates charged for using 1890 (Lo-call) numbers may vary).

carmen2222

Solution for now is to send a fax from abroad to the telephone number in Tralee offices. I won't be using the phone to incur a large telephone bill when the service has a message line in two languages spoken by the slowest speaker on the planet and multiple up front useless to me directions. Like the 1. 2. 3. options none of which pertain directly to PPSN. I saw three women clerks sitting at computers who would be free to answer a phone message and one man standing around in aid of something, I don't know what. Maybe security.

splinter65

carmen2222 wrote: »

Solution for now is to send a fax from abroad to the telephone number in Tralee offices. I won't be using the phone to incur a large telephone bill when the service has a message line in two languages spoken by the slowest speaker on the planet and multiple up front useless to me directions. Like the 1. 2. 3. options none of which pertain directly to PPSN. I saw three women clerks sitting at computers who would be free to answer a phone message and one man standing around in aid of something, I don't know what. Maybe security.

You have absolutely no idea what any of the staff you “saw” at the Tralee offices were busy with or what their remit is but demand that they stop whatever they are doing to attend to you.
I’ve given you the contact details for the section of the department administering PPSNs, I’ve given you the contact details for the complaints department, but you’re determined to pursue a local office in Kerry.
Here is a final link to information about getting a PPSN including for people who are abroad.
I can’t help you any more.
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/irish_social_welfare_system/personal_public_service_number.html

carmen2222

Social service offices should be that. I'm not up for debating anything here except the urge to better services delivery.

carmen2222

carmen2222 wrote: »

Social service offices should be that. I'm not up for debating anything here except the urge to better services delivery.

I think that you’re complaining in the wrong place/forum. A PPS number is an important thing and cannot be issued without proper checks. Get all your documentation together for getting your PS Card. This has to be done face to face. While there find out exactly what you need for your children and take it from there.

iamgroot

splinter65 wrote: »

Ireland
Northern Ireland
United Kingdom
Republic of Ireland
An Irish citizen
the Republic of Ireland
An Irish citizen via naturalisation or Foreign Birth Registration
UK
An Irish citizen
born in Northern Ireland
or a UK citizen
Children born in Ireland
Irish-born child
born in Ireland

All of that would be much more clear if you used the term "Air-ah"

splinter65

iamgroot wrote: »

All of that would be much more clear if you used the term "Air-ah"

What on earth are you going on about?

iamgroot

splinter65 wrote: »

What on earth are you going on about?

"Ireland" wasn't that clear? Have the 'rules and regulations' been relaxed for you to got to airah yourself? Specially for you，relaxed, muah xx

05eaftqbrs9jlh

iamgroot wrote: »

"Ireland" wasn't that clear? Have the 'rules and regulations' been relaxed for you to got to airah yourself? Specially for you，relaxed, muah xx

Unhelpful, bizarre comment.

iamgroot

Spencer Lazy Streptomycin wrote: »

Unhelpful, bizarre comment.

Repaying that to splinter65

iamgroot

splinter65 wrote: »

You have absolutely no idea what any of the staff you “saw” at the Tralee offices were busy with

Whereas you do know what the staff that somebody else saw were busy with. in Tralee

splinter65

iamgroot wrote: »

"Ireland" wasn't that clear? Have the 'rules and regulations' been relaxed for you to got to airah yourself? Specially for you，relaxed, muah xx

Ohhhkaaaayyyy.

iamgroot

splinter65 wrote: »

Ohhhkaaaayyyy.

Okay, in tralee

carmen2222

On the above topic about the difficulty AFTER having made an appointment AND appeared in person after which I have heard nothing at all. I've tried phoning but the lines are always clogged. The message system wants to keep me online waiting and has no dedicated line for PPSN inquiry. Surely there must be a case number automated after I got my picture taken. I have sent documents via post. I have tried faxing. The fax does not pick up. The whole picture I get from the Tralee offices is one of disorganization and mismanagement. I have also heard on the Joe Rogan RTE talk program that a man's daughter was charged by third party an astronomical charge on her phone of 100euro waiting to speak to an attendant.
I am harping on this injustice because as I see it, it's worse than a case of mismanagement. It's preying on the poor, elderly, vulnerable and women and children. These are the people who need social services. They ought not to be intimidated by the system which is meant to serve them. Aren't they already put low by circumstances?

carmen2222

carmen2222 wrote: »

On the above topic about the difficulty AFTER having made an appointment AND appeared in person after which I have heard nothing at all. I've tried phoning but the lines are always clogged. The message system wants to keep me online waiting and has no dedicated line for PPSN inquiry. Surely there must be a case number automated after I got my picture taken. I have sent documents via post. I have tried faxing. The fax does not pick up. The whole picture I get from the Tralee offices is one of disorganization and mismanagement. I have also heard on the Joe Rogan RTE talk program that a man's daughter was charged by third party an astronomical charge on her phone of 100euro waiting to speak to an attendant.
I am harping on this injustice because as I see it, it's worse than a case of mismanagement. It's preying on the poor, elderly, vulnerable and women and children. These are the people who need social services. They ought not to be intimidated by the system which is meant to serve them. Aren't they already put low by circumstances?

Why did you send your documents by post? Isn’t it usual to present them in person at your interview?

Also, you are speaking about a group of people who may have had NO issue getting their PSC. Some aren’t actually required to have one, due to age, infirmity, etc and have NO problem accessing services.

Your case could just be an isolated one, compounded by your inability to produce the required documentation in a timely fashion.

splinter65

carmen2222 wrote: »

On the above topic about the difficulty AFTER having made an appointment AND appeared in person after which I have heard nothing at all. I've tried phoning but the lines are always clogged. The message system wants to keep me online waiting and has no dedicated line for PPSN inquiry. Surely there must be a case number automated after I got my picture taken. I have sent documents via post. I have tried faxing. The fax does not pick up. The whole picture I get from the Tralee offices is one of disorganization and mismanagement. I have also heard on the Joe Rogan RTE talk program that a man's daughter was charged by third party an astronomical charge on her phone of 100euro waiting to speak to an attendant.
I am harping on this injustice because as I see it, it's worse than a case of mismanagement. It's preying on the poor, elderly, vulnerable and women and children. These are the people who need social services. They ought not to be intimidated by the system which is meant to serve them. Aren't they already put low by circumstances?

2 weeks ago I supplied you with the dedicated phone line for applicants with PPSN issues. When you rang them/contacted them what did they advise?

PeadarB

I booked an appointment for my aunt, 91 tears of age and a resident of a nursing home, to get her PSC which she hoped to use as photographic ID. She currently has no photographic ID as her passport and driving licence expired years ago. She has her birth cert and evidence of residence. Aged and infirm, she is practically blind and can no longer write owing to a tremor in her hand. She can't get a driving licence and sees no need at her age for a passport. Any suggestions as to how she might progress her application in the absence of photographic ID.

splinter65

PeadarB wrote: »

I booked an appointment for my aunt, 91 tears of age and a resident of a nursing home, to get her PSC which she hoped to use as photographic ID. She currently has no photographic ID as her passport and driving licence expired years ago. She has her birth cert and evidence of residence. Aged and infirm, she is practically blind and can no longer write owing to a tremor in her hand. She can't get a driving licence and sees no need at her age for a passport. Any suggestions as to how she might progress her application in the absence of photographic ID.

From the website:

*If you are an Irish or UK citizen and do not have a Passport or Driving licence as identification, you may still be issued with a Public Services Card. When you attend you will have an in-depth interview and additional information gathered during this interview will be verified in order to confirm your identity.

Wesser

why are yoiu traumatised? what a bizarre title. trauma is simething that happens to.you if you are attacked, nit during an application!

iamgroot

Been living in China for the last 10 years. Was not so far from Wuhan last week.

Anyway, some - but by no means all - of the comments in this thread are a bit typical. lads