I want to separate but can't afford to.

LegacyUser

Hello.
I am a woman in my late 40's, in a dead marriage for the last 5 years (together for more than 25 years).
We have two children, one in college and the other getting there. They both are dependent on us and do not/will not get grants etc because our combined incomes are about a thousand above the cut off point.
Life together is very difficult, not to say hell. I want to leave, have wanted to do so for a long time, but my husband refuses to some extent to face the reality of the situation, and refuses to consider it. Yet, there is absolutely no going back there, no love left on my side at least.
My husband can be very unreasonable and would probably go totally haywire if I left.
I earn 15000 Euro before tax per year, and depend on my husband better wage (under 45000) to pay most of the bills, mortgage and children's expenses, especially college (and saving for college) now. We have a joint account, so we both pay together, but I would say that my money is about enough for food and some of the bills.
We have a mortgage with at least 15 years left.
I just cannot see how I could afford to rent an apartment (I live and work in Galway city and do not drive) with at least one bedroom ( I could sleep on the sitting-room and give the bedroom to one of my children). The other could visit. And of course have enough money for food, bills, helping my children etc.
Even with my husband's help, if he deigned to help, we could not afford to rent a second home, we are very short of money as it is. We only save 150 Euro a month, the 'college fund'.
I have been told that even if we separate, my children would still not get the grant, as both parents are assessed.
I could probably get a better paid job, but the recovery hasn't hit Galway that much, so I think it would take a long time. I have qualifications and experience, but my age is against me to some extent.
I know people will tell me to make a plan, get a better job, make my children take college loans, etc, but it just feels very selfish to cut off our help because we want to separate. I feel like I have to help them/ wait to leave until they have at least their first qualification.
Not mentioning the upheaval (both emotional and in practical terms) it would create in their lives.
I am not really looking for specific advice, more venting and pointing out that in 2018, people still feel forced to remain together in terrible marriages for the sake of the children, for many different reasons.

HelgaWard

You won't know if you can get a better job until you try. You have qualifications, experience and current employment. You children are older now, so you have more hours available to work. Don't assume your age will go against you. I'd imagine some employers would favor a past child bearing age female over an about to start child bearing age female, as they won't have to worry about maternity leave etc. You have a lot going for you, put yourself out there, job hunt, up skill if you need to. If you want to separate and be financially independent you have to make it happen.

Ghekko

Do your children have part time jobs to help fund their college life? If not then that needs to be addressed. They are old enough now to understand that you and your Dh need to separate and no doubt sense the inevitable tension in the house. They'll be gone in no time and you'll have wasted another few years being miserable - and for what? Staying together for the sake of kids is not a good enough reason. Two happier parents are better than two who obvioulsy dislike being together and your kids are not babies. Get your CV updated and start sending it to agencies. Believe in yourself - you are as good as anyone, you have qualifications and experience so you can get a better paying job.

If you really cannot see a way back and won't consider marriage counselling, stop pretending to be content at home, start living your own life, take a separate bedroom, if you have a spare, and tell the kids ye are separating. Arrange to meet friends, take up hobbies that will get you out or just go for a walk with friends. Theres no point stagnating in a relationship when you can give yourself a bit of freedom and do your own thing.

vectorvictor

Your husband may not want to help you if you separate but he has to. You have invested in the marriage and assets and he has a responsibility in law to continue to support you and your children (up to the point where they complete full time education)

Solicitors are most likely to be involved but dont be afraid of that. Find one for an initial chat about your concerns , they will fully brief you on your rights. You may well end up better off overall so worry about yourself and your children, forget about the doomsday scenario and get the help and advice to get you back to being a happy and content woman. Good luck op. Dont let fear hold you back - you will be well capable of navigating through this with the right support.

BetsyEllen

Ghekko wrote: »

If you really cannot see a way back and won't consider marriage counselling, stop pretending to be content at home, start living your own life, take a separate bedroom, if you have a spare, and tell the kids ye are separating. Arrange to meet friends, take up hobbies that will get you out or just go for a walk with friends. Theres no point stagnating in a relationship when you can give yourself a bit of freedom and do your own thing.

I think this is really good advice.
Just because your marriage is crap doesn't mean your whole life has to be unhappy.
Start making a fulfilling social life for yourself in the evenings and at weekends, start looking for a new job so you have more disposable income.
Join groups, meet other women, make new friends.

Then in a few years when your kids are less reliant on you, you can look at leaving then.

Do start looking for new job though. Regardless of if you're going to leave your husband at some stage or not, you could be earning far better money than €15k and the extra cash can either be saved for your new future as a single woman or help to save the college fund quicker.

C3PO

Letitbe wrote: »

I want to leave, have wanted to do so for a long time, but my husband refuses to some extent to face the reality of the situation, and refuses to consider it.

I hope that this doesn't sound harsh but I wonder whether it is you or your husband who is refusing to face the reality of the situation?
The bottom line is that, it would appear, your combined income is not sufficient to run two homes and send two kids through college at the same time! And I'm speaking from personal experience of living in a very similar situation! You probably won't like to hear it, but you may have little choice but to stay put until both of your children have finished formal education and can support themselves! Hopefully then you might have sufficient equity in your house to be able to sell and both yourself and your husband buy two small homes.
But, as previous posters have suggested, this doesn't mean that you can't make the best of the situation - look for a new job, get out and meet new people and try to prepare for a new life when the time comes!

Xterminator

The bottom line is that, it would appear, your combined income is not sufficient to run two homes and send two kids through college at the same time! And I'm speaking from personal experience of living in a very similar situation! You probably won't like to hear it, but you may have little choice but to stay put until both of your children have finished formal education and can support themselves! Hopefully then you might have sufficient equity in your house to be able to sell and both yourself and your husband buy two small homes.

just to elaborate on that point, you dont have sufficient income to live the same standard of living & pay for college etc.

But at least one of the other posters suggested your husband will have to 'look after you'. I think that person lives in cuckoo land. say he leaves the family home, he will need rent on a place big enough to have his children over, food and travel expenses. how much do you reckon will be left over for maintenance?

Not enough to maintain a mortgage as well, thats for sure, let alone pay for college.

but if you sell your asset, (the family home) and use that you may get the kids through college. thats an option.

separating and living together has already been suggested.

as i see it they are the options open to you.

Koala Sunshine

vectorvictor wrote: »

Your husband may not want to help you if you separate but he has to. You have invested in the marriage and assets and he has a responsibility in law to continue to support you and your children (up to the point where they complete full time education)

Solicitors are most likely to be involved but dont be afraid of that. Find one for an initial chat about your concerns , they will fully brief you on your rights. You may well end up better off overall so worry about yourself and your children, forget about the doomsday scenario and get the help and advice to get you back to being a happy and content woman. Good luck op. Dont let fear hold you back - you will be well capable of navigating through this with the right support.

Why should the OP take her husband's money when she can get her own job to provide for herself? She is the one ending the relationship.

Hi OP,

Sorry for your troubles, it seems (to me) from your post that you are resigned to your situation but honestly you are young and can have a whole new life if you work towards it.

Can you learn to drive? It will give you much greater freedom on where to live and work, albeit you will have to invest in lessons and a car. Have you any capacity to to take on a second job or work longer hours at your current one?

I would consider going back into education in an area that has high employment in Galway (tourism/bio-medical sciences?)

In the interim, you need to speak your husband and discuss how you are going to go forward. It may be possible to live separately within the one house (I know, I know), or work towards an open relationship until ye can end things.

Eitherway, it's time to start living your life. Good luck, OP.

vectorvictor

Koala Sunshine wrote: »

Why should the OP take her husband's money when she can get her own job to provide for herself? She is the one ending the relationship.

Because its the law (right or wrong) and the children are the responsibility of them both

LegacyUser

Hi op - I'm in my 30s and i've dealt with a marriage breakdown with 4 children over the past 2-3 years. Your worries all seem very similar to mine at the time while i separated - and i can relate to your post in many ways.

How will i cope, how will i afford anything, how will the children take it? What will friends, family and neighbours think. So many questions...

Life is very short - you say you've been in a dead marriage for 5 years now - thats a huge portion of your life to be unhappy. You don't need to be and shouldn't be.

You need to forget about your husband and focus on what you want from life now. If he's not prepared to change or face up to the fact that you are not happy then you just need to do whats right for you.

Try make a plan for yourself, try and plan for a new job and see how much income you can possibly get. Believe in yourself! Hopefully you would be in a position to get a place of your own with a new job.

Im currently struggling with a large mortgage that i can't afford - and not sure what lies ahead but I'm happy to be alone and free that with someone that never made me happy.

Best of luck in your life.
You need to do what's right for you.

LegacyUser

Thank you for the replies!
Just to clarify a few things:
We are already living as separately as possible in a small house, not sleeping together and not being in the same room generally. This is actually what drives my husband crazy, and yet he doesn't want to separate for real.
Our children know the situation and just think it's normal in our 'dysfunctional' family and we have to keep bearing it until I can leave without affecting their lives.
We do not pretend to be happy, we just grit our teeth and carry on, with a few wild outbursts from my husband.
Our house is small, dilapidated and in the most 'rough' area of town, so I don't think we would get much profit there from the (difficult?) sale...
Our oldest already works part-time to save fortheir Erasmus year (dreading having to pay that!), and it has affected their grades this Christmas.
Our youngest would still have about 6 years before finishing school and then the first basic degree (which they want to do in Dublin, terrible expenses again. They will take a loan if we can't do it.). I am not ready to wait that long, yet I can't accept them taking out big loans for college, and starting their adult lives in debt. Jobs are not guaranteed in their chosen fields either.
I don't think I need retraining, my qualifications are still valid, but the kind of post I could maybe get is what I used to do, and I was very stressed/ unhappy at work, as well as at home! At least at the moment I am happy at/ in work. I cannot work more hours or get better paid there though.
The only way to really have a better paid and enjoyable job would be to do a PhD, and that's just too expensive while my children are in education themselves.
I would not expect my husband to keep me, but I would expect him to pay a greater part of the combined mortgage/ rent and children's expenses, as his wages are much higher. He doesn't particularly care about money, and I don't either, it's just that I don't want to affect our children's education, and consider it as our parental duty to pay for their first qualification. Maybe it is not, but it seems to be the norm within our family and friends/ acquaintances.
I do not have much free time for friends and a social life, which I don't care about much anyway. I go away to see my family as often and for as long as I can, it's breathing space for both, but they live in another country.
Driving would not solve much, as the cost of a second car, classes etc would offset a slighly cheaper rent. I couldn't live in the countryside, my children would not be able to come and go easily.
That all sounds extremely negative, and I suppose I am, and quite a bit resigned, but not for too long.
I might indeed start looking around for a better paid job this Spring, and see if it is a possiblity. How much would I need to earn to offset a second home (and its bills), while still being able to pay our children's education? Rent seems to be around 800-1000 Euro a month, how much would living expenses be for an adult and 1/2 children? Plus enough for college. I have to do that calculation...

forgodssake

Yout situation sounds awful an really feel for you . I come from a large family and we all went to college after school . Out parents couldn't support us in any way and we all got part time jobs to support ourselves through these years . This is your life and your children are going to have to accept you cant afford to help them . I understand you want to help but im sure if your children could choose they wouldl opt for your happiness . It sounds like you are so daunted by the reality of separating but it also sounds like it os the only way forward for you . Best wishes

meeeeh

OP your children are past the age when you have to stay at home or only work part time. You earn less than an apprentice in the middle of their training. If you have good education and with low unemployment rates in Ireland you should be able to earn more than 15k per year. You listed an awful lot of reasons why there is no point to try but that won't help you. Maybe talk to career advisor to see what your options are and to help you with cv if you need it and start looking for new job. Maybe also get some legal advice what options you have and the cost involved. At least you will know then where you stand.

Ghekko

Maybe your youngest will have to rethink their college course. Is there a college or IT nearer you where they could live at home or at least find accommodation cheaper than in Dublin? In any case it sounds like that child is only starting out in secondary so there's a few years for them to change their mind or focus on finding a course nearer home. You're fretting about things too far into the future now and all the while your life is miserable. Your eldest will, like most uni students, have to find a way to balance study and part time work for their own benefit. Most students don't get generous handouts from their parents and would take out a loan if needed. My parents couldn't have afforded to send me to college. I was working full time by 19. That's life. Put yourself first now. Seek out a full time job which will offer more money. Try to save money for yourself and your future happiness.

meeeeh

Letitbe wrote: »

Thank you for the replies!

Our children know the situation and just think it's normal in our 'dysfunctional' family and we have to keep bearing it until I can leave without affecting their lives.

I forgot to ad this in my previous post, your situation is affecting kids anyway. I don't want to be overly negative or on your case but I know kids who came out of families where parents stayed together "for the kids". It always affected them negatively in some way. A student loan might be the cheapest price to pay for a lot happier life for everyone involved.

LegacyUser

meeeeh wrote: »

I forgot to ad this in my previous post, your situation is affecting kids anyway. I don't want to be overly negative or on your case but I know kids who came out of families where parents stayed together "for the kids". It always affected them negatively in some way. A student loan might be the cheapest price to pay for a lot happier life for everyone involved.

+ 1 Your kids know and it is effecting them. I was a kid in this situation with parents separated but still living together. It not only messed up my relationship with both my parents but also future romantic relationships of my own as I had a very wrapped view of healthy relationships as a result of having my parents as an example. It's time to be an adult OP and put all the cards on the table. You need to talk to your OH about the situation and not just sit on it waiting for something to change.

You also need to talk to your kids about what you can realistically help with when it comes to college. The reality is not everyone has parents who can afford to cover them in 3rd level education and they will need to consider doing a cheaper course closer to home or somewhere cheaper to live and go the long way round to get the qualification they want. I think you should be having this conversation regardless of your relationship with your husband. You help your kids if you can but you shouldn't be making your own life harder. My parents helped me out for college but they couldn't afford it all so I worked and I also opted to do 2 years at a Further education college towards my career as it was considerably cheaper.

LegacyUser

I already work full-time, even sometimes evenings and week-ends. I have always worked, never stayed at home or worked part-time (only when they were small babies), I don't know why some posters assume that. I am just badly paid, because the business where I work does very little profit, and I accepted that pay. The only solution there is to leave and hope I find something better paid.
Our children are certainly affected by our problems, emotionally probably, and certainly through the bad modelling they are subjected to.
But I am reluctant to affect their studies also, i.e. their future.
My youngest is in 5th Year, so the 6 years of waiting are including 4 years of college.
I could ask her to revise her ambitions, but I think I would feel terribly guilty all my life that she didn't get to study what she wanted.
She will probably have to take a loan, it would be a minimum of 40 or 50 000 Euro to included fees and accommodation in Dublin for 4 years! It's just so horrible, and not really something I understand or accept fully.
This discussion is making me realise that I have to be more courageous, stop being resigned, start looking for another job and then just go.
On the other hand some people are telling me to wait at least until my youngest has done her Leaving cert. so that the separation doesn't affect her at the wrong time.
At least I am facing the reality of what I want/need to do a little bit more.

WIZWEB

OP college grants are based on the previous years earnings. If your 'separated' and living apart by then and your income is below a certain amount they will get it. If you're unhappy which you are and for so long then you need to work out a fair plan for all. Their father will still have to pay maintenance until they any children reach adulthood. It may be extended through college years but I'm not sure about this point.

padser

OP, if working is putting you €1k over the threshold for college grants and those grants are worth more than €1k - just walk into your employer and ask for a €1k pay reduction

Big Bag of Chips

You work full time for €15000 a year? Get another job. Any other job. A job in Aldi would pay more than that and you would have the opportunity to move up the ladder. You can't complain of being broke yet stay in a job with such bad pay. If you're in your 40s, have a good education and work ethic and have always worked then there is zero reason for you to be on such bad money. Especially when money is now an issue.

It's very easy when faced with tough situations to bury your head and say there's nothing really you can do. The reality is there is always something you can do. There are always choices and options. They're not necessarily going to be easy, but changing your life and ending a marriage is never going to be easy.

Start with looking for a different job.

meeeeh

Letitbe wrote: »

I already work full-time, even sometimes evenings and week-ends. I have always worked, never stayed at home or worked part-time (only when they were small babies), I don't know why some posters assume that.

Because 15k before tax per year it's less than minimum wage and illegal for full time job?

cbyrd

I separated 5 years ago. 4 children and an ex who I could not rely on for financial help.
It's been tough, but not as tough as staying in a marriage that doesn't work.
In ten years when you're almost60 do you think it would be easier to leave then? Do you think you'd have as much opportunity to meet someone and start a new life? Do you think your children will put their lives on hold to look after you?
This is your life, you get one, your children may not be happy about it but they will get over it. It's better to have 2 happier parents seperated than 2 absolutely miserable ones together.
Take charge of your own life. Your children are probably even aware of how miserable you are and may be willing to help you transition to a new life.
Houses can be sold, you can rent, they can get jobs and learn how to live as adults. It's not all down to you to support everyone. Part of growing up is learning to support yourself, it's nice to have backup but it's not always practical.
Go to your local citizens advice or the social welfare office and start planning the rest of your life. You won't know until you ask.
Good luck!

LegacyUser

'OP college grants are based on the previous years earnings. If your 'separated' and living apart by then and your income is below a certain amount they will get it'
I have been told informally that the income limits for the grant are the same, and they take both parents' income into account, whether separated or not.
I earn little also because my holidays (when the place closes) are not paid, so my income is over 10 months actually. I do not sign on the dole when I am not employed, as I would get little because of my husband wage, and I go away to my family some of the time. Also, there are some weeks when I have less hours, so it is probably above the minimum wage. But yes, this is the first thing to address. I am going to look for a better paid job.
I certainly do not want to meet someone else, I can't wait to be single actually! Sorry to say this on St-Valentine's day, but to me long-term 'LOVE' is an illusion we've created in order to have stable couples for the security of the off-springs, and relationships are overrated! Obviously my situation makes me very cynical...
Actually my biggest deepest worry is that my children will have a warped view of relationships, but at least they know this is not normal.
Thank you for the push!
MOD can you please close this? Thank you.