My Wicklow County Council flat is not fireproof!

EmmaBX

Hello,

I am currently a tenant of the Wicklow County Council and I live in a downstairs flat with other tenants living in a flat above me. The block in which we live used to be a two story semi detached now converted into two flats.

My concern is that it has recently been brought to my attention that the ceiling in my apartment and the floor in the upstairs apartment may not be fireproof.

I've emailed the HSA but I'm concerned they won't do much as it is to do with the Council and not a private landlord.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

ðŸ˜

Prenderb

Have you spoken to your landlord?

EmmaBX

Prenderb wrote: »

Have you spoken to your landlord?

Not yet as I've only been made aware that nothing is fireproof here, although i have made several complaints regarding the volume of noise from footsteps above me (which i now know is mainly due to lack of fireproofing in the ceiling)

My landlord is the Wicklow County Council

EmmaBX

Prenderb wrote: »

Have you spoken to your landlord?

Also, I've been complaining for months to the Council about the level of noise from footsteps above me and they have done nothing, i can barely get someone to call me back. Now I'm presuming it's because they know of the situation here and lack of safety.

(I've spoken to the tenants above me and there's not much they can do in regards to the footsteps, they are walking as quietly as they can but still the noise of footsteps boom around my flat)

There is no cement dividing the two flats at all.

mad m

Couple of things to consider. How old is the house do you know?

have a read of this.

https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/guidelines_for_housing_authorities_-_minimum_standards_in_rented_accomodation_2017.pdf

EmmaBX wrote: »

My concern is that it has recently been brought to my attention that the ceiling in my apartment and the floor in the upstairs apartment may not be fireproof.


ðŸ˜

Who has brought this to your attention?

Mrs OBumble

Talk to your local fire service. If they think your place is uninhabitable youll be in emergency accommodation fast enough.

EmmaBX

I would say the house was originally built in the early 80's but I'm unsure if it was erected as the two flats that it is now or if it was a stand alone house.

A local contractor who i had in to cement my fireplace, while he was here he noticed that my flat wasn't soundproof from the tenants above and that this must be down to the fact that the ceiling was not fireproof. If it was fireproofed i wouldn't be able to hear the tenants footsteps above as clearly as i can (it's very loud, creates a booming sound and low vibration which can be felt on my sofa while I'm sitting)

The insulation in the flat is very bad also. I find as soon as i turn the heating off (oil burner) that the flat is cold again in less than 20 minutes, the windows are double glazed but not sure if walls are insulated (i doubt it as my flat is constantly freezing, no heat gets trapped inside)

Thank you for the link i will read it now

EmmaBX

I would say the house was originally built in the early 80's but I'm unsure if it was erected as the two flats that it is now or if it was a stand alone house.

A local contractor who i had in to cement my fireplace, while he was here he noticed that my flat wasn't soundproof from the tenants above and that this must be down to the fact that the ceiling was not fireproof. If it was fireproofed i wouldn't be able to hear the tenants footsteps above as clearly as i can (it's very loud, creates a booming sound and low vibration which can be felt on my sofa while I'm sitting)

The insulation in the flat is very bad also. I find as soon as i turn the heating off (oil burner) that the flat is cold again in less than 20 minutes, the windows are double glazed but not sure if walls are insulated (i doubt it as my flat is constantly freezing, no heat gets trapped inside)

Thank you for the link i will read it now

EmmaBX

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Talk to your local fire service. If they think your place is uninhabitable youll be in emergency accommodation fast enough.

I've emailed the HSA, currently awaiting a response. Do you think it would be worthwhile contacting my local fire department as they operate under the Council and this is a Council flat i am residing in and complaining about?

mad m

There is new apartment complexes built that have sound issues you are stating and these would have concrete floors (well one would hope). Some complexes have it in there T&C's not to install wooden floors as they may cause too much noise when walked on to people below etc.

Banging doors and people walking on floors is a type of noise you can't really do much about. Noise like this will travel unfortunately especially more so that you are below them.

My advise would be send a registered letter to council asking them to checkout fire issues or concerns you may have. State in letter because of this concern you need a prompt response.

Gumbo

EmmaBX wrote: »

I've emailed the HSA, currently awaiting a response. Do you think it would be worthwhile contacting my local fire department as they operate under the Council and this is a Council flat i am residing in and complaining about?

HSA will do nothing here. And rightly so. They are not legally entitled to do anything and these issues do not fall under their remit.

What you need to do is email your local Building Control section of the council. They are responsible for the administration of the Building Regulations, which your issue falls under. Specifically , Technical Guidance Document Part B (Fire Safety) and even more specifically, compartmentation and separation of adjoining units.

The Building Control section can also refer it to the Fire Prevention section as the creation of the 2 flats should have triggered a Fire Safety a Certificate.

SmartinMartin

How about buying a place that DOES have soundproofing.

EmmaBX

mad m wrote: »

There is new apartment complexes built that have sound issues you are stating and these would have concrete floors (well one would hope). Some complexes have it in there T&C's not to install wooden floors as they may cause too much noise when walked on to people below etc.

Banging doors and people walking on floors is a type of noise you can't really do much about. Noise like this will travel unfortunately especially more so that you are below them.

My advise would be send a registered letter to council asking them to checkout fire issues or concerns you may have. State in letter because of this concern you need a prompt response.

Thank you mad m for your responses they are greatly appreciated. I was reading through the guidelines in the link you sent me and should these guidelines comply with the council also then I'm afraid rules i was unaware of have been broken.

1. No fire blanket provided anywhere in the flat
2. No escape route mapped out or what to do in the event of a fire
3. No fridge or freezer or washing machine supplied even though it states in the contract that all appliances should remain in the property once i leave(I had to purchase these myself, i purchased them second hand so no receipts) only appliance provided to me was a very very old oven(not cleaned from previous tenant), I eventually had to buy a new one so I've receipt of that and the council's old oven in the shed ready to go back in whenever i leave.
4. Extraction fan has never worked. Upon opening the extraction fan above the oven i found a jumper stuffed into it. Pipe running outside is useless. All windows in kitchen and back door need to be opened throughout the duration of preparing meals.

I'm feeling a bit silly for putting so much confidence into the council. Although i have thought it to be quite strange that in the 5 years i am living here not once has a representative from the council come out to the flat for an inspection. I guess they'll be out now once they hear from me in the morning lol.

EmmaBX

SmartinMartin wrote: »

How about buying a place that DOES have soundproofing.

Thanks I'll​ get right on it

EmmaBX

kceire wrote: »

HSA will do nothing here. And rightly so. They are not legally entitled to do anything and these issues do not fall under their remit.

What you need to do is email your local Building Control section of the council. They are responsible for the administration of the Building Regulations, which your issue falls under. Specifically , Technical Guidance Document Part B (Fire Safety) and even more specifically, compartmentation and separation of adjoining units.

The Building Control section can also refer it to the Fire Prevention section as the creation of the 2 flats should have triggered a Fire Safety a Certificate.

Thank you, this is really helpful. I've an idea of who i need to be talking to now. I would of thought the same that once the flats were built the fire safety regulations would of been put into effect but obviously not as i wasn't even provided a safety blanket when i first moved in. Still don't have one.

Mrs OBumble

EmmaBX wrote: »

Thank you mad m for your responses they are greatly appreciated. I was reading through the guidelines in the link you sent me and should these guidelines comply with the council also then I'm afraid rules i was unaware of have been broken.

1. No fire blanket provided anywhere in the flat
2. No escape route mapped out or what to do in the event of a fire
3. No fridge or freezer or washing machine supplied even though it states in the contract that all appliances should remain in the property once i leave(I had to purchase these myself, i purchased them second hand so no receipts) only appliance provided to me was a very very old oven(not cleaned from previous tenant), I eventually had to buy a new one so I've receipt of that and the council's old oven in the shed ready to go back in whenever i leave.
4. Extraction fan has never worked. Upon opening the extraction fan above the oven i found a jumper stuffed into it. Pipe running outside is useless. All windows in kitchen and back door need to be opened throughout the duration of preparing meals.

I'm feeling a bit silly for putting so much confidence into the council. Although i have thought it to be quite strange that in the 5 years i am living here not once has a representative from the council come out to the flat for an inspection. I guess they'll be out now once they hear from me in the morning lol.

That link isn't relevant for council tenancies. As a home-for-life, they are not obliged to provide appliances or even flooring.

They do have to make it fire-safe though.

Follow kceire's advice. S/he is professionally involved in this and knows the current systems.

Don't put too much store on the words of a local contractor though. Sometimes you find they are trying to talk themselves into unnecessary work.

Gumbo

EmmaBX wrote: »

Thank you, this is really helpful. I've an idea of who i need to be talking to now. I would of thought the same that once the flats were built the fire safety regulations would of been put into effect but obviously not as i wasn't even provided a safety blanket when i first moved in. Still don't have one.

That’s a landlord and minimum standards issue. Not a building regulation issue.

EmmaBX

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

That link isn't relevant for council tenancies. As a home-for-life, they are not obliged to provide appliances or even flooring.

They do have to make it fire-safe though.

Follow kceire's advice. S/he is professionally involved in this and knows the current systems.

Don't put too much store on the words of a local contractor though. Sometimes you find they are trying to talk themselves into unnecessary work.

Thank you i will be following up with kceire's advice and will keep you all posted on my findings.

Your right, this contractor could most certainly be looking for a quick buck, as they say "he saw me coming" but just to be sure I'll follow kceire's advice

I was unsure if it was for private tenants or council tenants, thank you for clearing that up before i made a fool of myself giving out about my extractor fan lol.

mad m

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

That link isn't relevant for council tenancies. As a home-for-life, they are not obliged to provide appliances or even flooring.

They do have to make it fire-safe though.

Follow kceire's advice. S/he is professionally involved in this and knows the current systems.

Don't put too much store on the words of a local contractor though. Sometimes you find they are trying to talk themselves into unnecessary work.

Thanks Mrs OBumble, apologies I should of been clearer. Councils never provide appliances. But a council is a landlord and they have to meet minimum standards like private landlords as well.

Fire safety since Grenfell has gone off the scale and with good reason.

April 73

Fire blanket here in Argos.ie.
https://m.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/5459993.htm
If you’re concerned about fire safety it might be quicker to purchase it and a fire extinguisher yourself.

spaceHopper

You need to be carefull here, they could move you somewhere else because of fire concers and board up the palce or fix it and put somebody else in, is short you oculd be out permanetly.

Are your doors fire doors. It's easy to make your ceiling fire proof, you double slab it with fire board, replaster. To do the wall you need it insulare from with in with 100mm insulated plaster board. This is the new minum, 50mm would probably be enough but the minimum now is 100mm. It's a pain it the ass to hang curtains... on it.

If I were you I'd try to see them face to face and talk it over ask them is there anything that can be done. Try to have the work done in the summer so that you might not have to move out. Or at least arrange somewhere you can say for 3 weeks while it's done. Don't leave your self in a position where they can justify moving you some that meets the standards but you don't like.

EmmaBX

spaceHopper wrote: »

You need to be carefull here, they could move you somewhere else because of fire concers and board up the palce or fix it and put somebody else in, is short you oculd be out permanetly.

Are your doors fire doors. It's easy to make your ceiling fire proof, you double slab it with fire board, replaster. To do the wall you need it insulare from with in with 100mm insulated plaster board. This is the new minum, 50mm would probably be enough but the minimum now is 100mm. It's a pain it the ass to hang curtains... on it.

If I were you I'd try to see them face to face and talk it over ask them is there anything that can be done. Try to have the work done in the summer so that you might not have to move out. Or at least arrange somewhere you can say for 3 weeks while it's done. Don't leave your self in a position where they can justify moving you some that meets the standards but you don't like.

Hi space hopper thank you for your response. No fire doors at all, only old hollow cheap doors. From my understanding the walls are standard cavity blocks with no insulation at all. The heat goes straight out of the house 15 mins after turning off the heating. My heating is an oil burner so the cost of running it is astronomical especially as most of it escapes through the walls. I am in the process of having a meeting set up between myself and the council but it would be nice to have some confirmation that the house is not insulated or fireproofed before i meet them.