Timing belt snaps within 2 months of garage replacing it

dannyluvsu

As the title suggests I had the timing belt replaced on a 07 Audi A4 B7 2.0 at the start of December. Last week the belt snapped.

A different mechanic who recovered the car after the snap reckoned the tension had been set either too tight or too loose. He had the car at his place for a day or two.

I had the car brought into my regular guy (who initially changed the belt) but he reckons it’s not his fault/problem. He said he’d try to find me a new or second hand head but he cost was on me and “these things happen and I called a guy fron Audi” blah blah and basically hangs up on me.

The man is a non national and despite his decent level of conversational English, it’s not quite good enough to discuss the intricacies of legal recourse.

I only had the car a week when he changed the belt. He fully serviced the car, breaks, the works. With that level of work should there not be at least some duty of care on him that something like this wouldn’t happen at least within a goddamn half year?? I paid a lot to get the car up to snuff right from the get go so there’d be no issues.

I’m not even half finished paying for the vehicle and the cost of this whole opperation is likely going be huge so I’m wondering has anyone had a similar experience and is there any point in trying to follow him for the cost or am I just urinating in the old breeze?

Edit: It’s worth noting that his opperation isn’t a backyard deal by any means, he has a booming business based in town where he also buys and sells cars. Another point of note could be that he drives and regularly works on the exact same car as me.

rex-x

Was water pump done too? he should be repairing the car as he clearly made a mistake or the parts have failed.

dannyluvsu

rex-x wrote: »

Was water pump done too? he should be repairing the car as he clearly made a mistake or the parts have failed.

Yeah everything was done, I paid about €200 for the whole kit from a reputable auto parts shop in town.

rex-x

dannyluvsu wrote: »

Yeah everything was done, I paid about €200 for the whole kit from a reputable auto parts shop in town.

That may be a problem as he didnt supply the kit. If he claims it was a parts failure then you may have a fight on your hands.

tom_k

I had this happen many moons ago on a B6 A4. Belt snapped after being changed at a reputable garage. The garage took responsibility fairly quickly and carried out all necessary repairs and provided me with a replacement car.

I had mine towed off the side of the road and the garage that it was brought to wrote up a brief report saying what they observed - which in fairness a blind man could see.

Be very firm about this and retain receipts for both parts and timing belt labour, do not hand them over under any circumstances. Your garage is probably hoping you'll go away but polite persistence should pay off if they are in any way reputable.

dannyluvsu

rex-x wrote: »

That may be a problem as he didnt supply the kit. If he claims it was a parts failure then you may have a fight on your hands.

I thought this may be an issue alright. If he can prove that it’s a parts failure though could I follow the maufacturer? I doubt I put 2000 miles on the belt in fairness. Car is kept in a car port at night so it’s not even exposed to the raw elements over the winter.

dannyluvsu

tom_k wrote: »

I had this happen many moons ago on a B6 A4. Belt snapped after being changed at a reputable garage. The garage took responsibility fairly quickly and carried out all necessary repairs and provided me with a replacement car.

I had mine towed off the side of the road and the garage that it was brought to wrote up a brief report saying what they observed - which in fairness a blind man could see.

Be very firm about this and retain receipts for both parts and timing belt labour, do not hand them over under any circumstances. Your garage is probably hoping you'll go away but polite persistence should pay off if they are in any way reputable.

Polite persistence it is so. These guys have offered no replacement car and i’ve been stuck in the middle of nowhere going on 2 weeks now.

I have/can get the recipet for the belt but this lad never issued me a reciept for the labour. This could be problematic. Although there is no denying that he carried out the work.

JohnBoy26

dannyluvsu wrote: »

Yeah everything was done, I paid about €200 for the whole kit from a reputable auto parts shop in town.

Well that changes things for sure. The garage didn't supply the parts so it might not be their fault. If you can prove that one of the parts failed due to a fault in the part then you would have a case to go back to where you purchased the belt from and they should be able to do something for you with regards to going to the manufacturer.


I know it's too late now but it's always worth going for a genuine kit and waterpump on a car like that.

rex-x

What did you pay for labour?

dannyluvsu

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Well that changes things for sure. The garage didn't supply the parts so it might not be their fault. If you can prove that one of the parts failed due to a fault in the part then you would have a case to go back to where you purchased the belt from and they should be able to do something for you with regards to going to the manufacturer.


I know it's too late now but it's always worth going for a genuine kit and waterpump on a car like that.

I know very little about cars but I don’t think Audi make timing belt kits and the one I went for was by no means the cheapest in the shop. I contacted the shop afterward and he said they sell a lot of them and this would be considered very out of the ordinary. The mechanic who collected the car also stated that he believed the tension was set incorrectly.

dannyluvsu

rex-x wrote: »

What did you pay for labour?

Approximately €200.

This guys been my mechanic for over a year now so it’s not unusual for me to just leave without a receipt (foolish, I know.)

rex-x

For what its worth it would be very unusual for a kit to be faulty so it is likely he is at fault. Keep the pressure on him but stay nice.

drunkmonkey

Will he do an engine swap for cheap or free, could be cheaper than repairing.

dannyluvsu

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Will he do an engine swap for cheap or free, could be cheaper than repairing.

He reckons that swapping the head for either a new one or a second hand one will get it running again. I have an awful feeling that the car isn’t going to be what it was before he got his hands on it.

JohnBoy26

dannyluvsu wrote: »

I know very little about cars but I don’t think Audi make timing belt kits and the one I went for was by no means the cheapest in the shop. I contacted the shop afterward and he said they sell a lot of them and this would be considered very out of the ordinary. The mechanic who collected the car also stated that he believed the tension was set incorrectly.

You can get genuine kits at any audi dealer or even any vw dealer for that matter.

It mightn't be the fault of the part, I don't know but genuine is always the best option and not really anymore expensive than aftermarket kits when it comes to vag cars

dannyluvsu

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

You can get genuine kits at any audi dealer or even any vw dealer for that matter.

It mightn't be the fault of the part, I don't know but genuine is always the best option and not really anymore expensive than aftermarket kits when it comes to vag cars

Right, I get ya now. Ffs, it never even occured to me to go to a dealer for the part. First decent car so i’ll have to change my buying habbits for sure.

Pricing around to get my own done soon and the vw dealer is coming in the cheapest with a two year parts and labour guarantee

George Dalton

The tensioner setup on these 2.0 PD engines is pretty troublesome. The stud for the tensioner is screwed into the head on a fine M8x1mm thread. The threads in the head can pull very easily when tightening the tensioner after a belt change. Sometimes it’s not even obvious at the time and only manifests itself a few weeks later when the timing slips. That’s the most likely thing to have happened here.

We got caught out with a couple of them several years back and now we always put a helicoil insert into the head when doing the timing belt jobs on them.

Car99

George Dalton wrote: »

The tensioner setup on these 2.0 PD engines is pretty troublesome. The stud for the tensioner is screwed into the head on a fine M8x1mm thread. The threads in the head can pull very easily when tightening the tensioner after a belt change. Sometimes it’s not even obvious at the time and only manifests itself a few weeks later when the timing slips. That’s the most likely thing to have happened here.

We got caught out with a couple of them several years back and now we always put a helicoil insert into the head when doing the timing belt jobs on them.

+1 on this seen it happen a few times.

Working class heroes

BrownFinger wrote: »

Pricing around to get my own done soon and the vw dealer is coming in the cheapest with a two year parts and labour guarantee

Can I ask what kind of prices you are been quoted?

Moanin

Car99 wrote: »

+1 on this seen it happen a few times.

+1 this happened to my old 2.0TDI Passat.

dannyluvsu

BrownFinger wrote: »

Pricing around to get my own done soon and the vw dealer is coming in the cheapest with a two year parts and labour guarantee

No way? I’ll be giving mr dealer a shout next time so.

dannyluvsu

George Dalton wrote: »

The tensioner setup on these 2.0 PD engines is pretty troublesome. The stud for the tensioner is screwed into the head on a fine M8x1mm thread. The threads in the head can pull very easily when tightening the tensioner after a belt change. Sometimes it’s not even obvious at the time and only manifests itself a few weeks later when the timing slips. That’s the most likely thing to have happened here.

We got caught out with a couple of them several years back and now we always put a helicoil insert into the head when doing the timing belt jobs on them.

That certainly sheds a lot of light on things.

The guy is well regarded locally and has done a good bit of work for me in the past. So when the other mechanic told me the belt was what goosed things I was shcoked to say the least.

If you don’t mind me asking, were you guys obliged either legally or morally to do the fix or was that up to how the customer handled the matter?

bucketybuck

dannyluvsu wrote: »

Yeah everything was done, I paid about €200 for the whole kit from a reputable auto parts shop in town.

The point has been made, but this is a huge problem for you.

The cause of fault here is either a manufacturing defect somewhere in the timing belt kit, or incorrect fitment leading to failure.

If the kit failed then the mechanic is right, it is not his responsibility, he did not buy the parts and could not reclaim costs from the manufacturer even if he wanted to. As the purchaser you would have to try and reclaim parts warranty yourself, but then there is problem number 2, which is that over the counter parts sale will not pay for subsequent damage. Your parts warranty would pay for replacement parts, not for recovery, car hire, and certainly not for a new engine.

If it was the fitment that caused the fault then the mechanic should be liable, but the problem there is actually proving that it was the fitment that caused the fault. You are talking some small misadjustment or incorrect torque, how to prove that it was ever wrong or right considering the damage done.

Its too late now but this is the part nobody ever considers when trying to save money by getting mechanics to simply fit parts the customer bought themselves. Who is liable for those parts, because damn sure it won't be the mechanic?

George Dalton

dannyluvsu wrote: »

That certainly sheds a lot of light on things.

The guy is well regarded locally and has done a good bit of work for me in the past. So when the other mechanic told me the belt was what goosed things I was shcoked to say the least.

If you don’t mind me asking, were you guys obliged either legally or morally to do the fix or was that up to how the customer handled the matter?

It happened to us with 2 different cars. We organised recovery for both and sorted them. One needed a replacement head. The other one miraculously escaped without any damage. We just helicoiled the head, re-timed it and all was well.

dannyluvsu

George Dalton wrote: »

It happened to us with 2 different cars. We organised recovery for both and sorted them. One needed a replacement head. The other one miraculously escaped without any damage. We just helicoiled the head, re-timed it and all was well.

Here’s hoping the same can be done for mine and he’s somewhat agreeable as to the cost/blame ratio. Thanks for your replies!

Stoolbend

George Dalton wrote: »

It happened to us with 2 different cars. We organised recovery for both and sorted them. One needed a replacement head. The other one miraculously escaped without any damage. We just helicoiled the head, re-timed it and all was well.

Did you supply the parts though?

1874

Sorry to hear your troubles, This is why I'd only go to an established (and hopefully reputable) garage/or even a main dealer for a timing belt change, I wouldnt exactly describe it as routine work, but its one of the few jobs I get done. Mainly for the ability to have comeback in case it goes wrong, but also as Im taking it they have experience carrying out the job and Id take from it they are supplying the standard parts kit used, which Id expect to be the best suited.
Even a small established garage where you know them well, if it goes wrong, and Im sure thats few and far between, then it seems more likely to be hassle to recover it or something that might be a big thing for them to deal with, then the customer loses out.

I didnt think the price for doing timing belts in main dealers or larger reputable garages was significantly more than what it will cost for to get done in smaller places. Even though I had other problems where I got my timing belt done, Id a receipt, they did the work and supplied the parts so if anything went wrong, I considered I'd have comeback.

Id keep at them, sounds like it might be an uphill battle, you might have to take some of the cost on the chin as supplying the parts has given the mechanic a bit of a get out clause, hopefully it doesnt get any worse than that.

George Dalton

Stoolbend wrote: »

Did you supply the parts though?

Yes. Genuine VW parts.

Stoolbend

That's the point. If the garage supplies the parts then they have to fix it. Wether it's faulty parts or bad workmanship or bad design it's the garages problem.

If the customer supplies the part then your only paying for Labour. So bad design or faulty parts aren't his problem.

thierry14

Stoolbend wrote: »

That's the point. If the garage supplies the parts then they have to fix it. Wether it's faulty parts or bad workmanship or bad design it's the garages problem.

If the customer supplies the part then your only paying for Labour. So bad design or faulty parts aren't his problem.

I do the same now

Let them supply for reason above and plus too many times got wrong pads, oil filter etc hassle of returning

Only go to garages with proper invoices with vat and take card payment now

Don't bother with small cash in hand indie's anymore, too dodgy and no comeback.

Had George Dalton above do my timing belt and pump too, well worth going to a professional for peace of mind.