Joao Carvalho inquest findings and recommendations.

Subcomandante Marcos

So the inquest into the tragic death of Portugese MMA fighter Joao Carvalho finished today in Dublin with the jury delivering a verdict of death by misadventure, which translates to "death caused by a person accidentally while performing a legal act without negligence or intent to harm", so no fault was found with the promoter, fighters or medical teams involved.

I think this is the best outcome possible for all involved, it was a tragic death and highlights the risks men and women take when they step into the cage, but the finding acknowledges the there was no mal-intent.

One of the major parts of the jury's delivery of their verdict was that the jury recommends the endorsement of a national governing body for MMA for for MMA bodies to adopt safety standards used in professional boxing.

The Irish sports authorities can't keep letting MMA live in this grey area between regulation and wild west free for all it currently occupies. Governing bodies of "traditional" martial arts who are opposing the recognition of a national body to govern MMA in Ireland are putting fighters lives at risks and should be told to feck off.

Mellor

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

I think this is the best outcome possible for all involved, it was a tragic death and highlights the risks men and women take when they step into the cage, but the finding acknowledges the there was no mal-intent.

Agree completely. It is also the right decision imo.

One of the major parts of the jury's delivery of their verdict was that the jury recommends the endorsement of a national governing body for MMA for for MMA bodies to adopt safety standards used in professional boxing.

The Irish sports authorities can't keep letting MMA live in this grey area between regulation and wild west free for all it currently occupies. Governing bodies of "traditional" martial arts who are opposing the recognition of a national body to govern MMA in Ireland are putting fighters lives at risks and should be told to feck off.

That's at least a small positive to take away from it.
The bullshido artists have no right or reason to have any say in combat sports

riffmongous

Joao Carvalho (28) sustained 41 blows to the head

It's easy to forget how violent the sport is sometimes until they put it like that

Whelo79

riffmongous wrote: »

It's easy to forget how violent the sport is sometimes until they put it like that

That's 41 strikes in 15 minutes. Works out at just less than 3 per minute. It's not that violent.

I was there that night, it was a hell of a fight. It would have taken fight of the night anywhere in the world. It was such a shame to end in tragic circumstances. Unfortunately, sometimes a tragedy like this is required to happen to put the wheels in motion for change and regulations.

The Nal

Whelo79 wrote: »

That's 41 strikes in 15 minutes. Works out at just less than 3 per minute. It's not that violent.

One punch to the head can kill someone. It is violent. Thats the appeal though and fighters in any discipline know what the risks are.

Not a recognised sport but coursing and greyhound racing get government funding.

LollipopJimmy

Shane Ross has had his say.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0209/939463-mixed-martial-arts-safety/

The Nal

How are they "dragging their" feet?

Shane Ross is a complete tit by the way.

Whelo79

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

Shane Ross has had his say.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0209/939463-mixed-martial-arts-safety/

Absolutely appalling comments from Shane Ross. Huge strides have been taken and the health and safety checks around fighters and events has grown significantly in the last 2 years.

Mellor

Shane Ross wrote:

"Sport Ireland stands ready to help but can only help if you are willing to ask, and if you are willing to do the right thing."

Not sure if this is furious back peddling or sheer ignorance.

Subcomandante Marcos

Shane Ross is the most incompetent, stupid, uninformed minister to ever hold the title in the history of this state. He is an embarrassment.

What a clown.

LollipopJimmy

I was just in the shop there and the front page headline on one of the rags is 'Cage fighter took 41 blows to the head'

StringerBell

I fully endorse the decision, also that Shane Ross is an idiot.

It was a tragic loss of life, and the sport in Ireland has come a long way since in terms of medical preparedness and fighter safety.

41 blows to the head of course is a lot of trauma to take, but it is not the most violent contest we have witnessed or anything much out of the ordinary. It is the aftermath of what happened in the cage that was a greater factor in the tragedy.

The sport will be attacked from all sides now for a news cycle but that will be it hopefully.

Special thoughts go to both Carvalhos family and also to Ward. This has been a horrible thing to have hanging over them for a long time now and hopefully all, particularly the family can start to move on with their lives a bit in the near future.

Kristopherus

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

I was just in the shop there and the front page headline on one of the rags is 'Cage fighter took 41 blows to the head'

Thats the media for ya:rolleyes:. They know full well that the image they are inferring is that Carvalho got 41 blows to the head when he was on his back. If that was the case the ref would be in jail by now.

LollipopJimmy

Kristopherus wrote: »

Thats the media for ya:rolleyes:. They know full well that the image they are inferring is that Carvalho got 41 blows to the head when he was on his back. If that was the case the ref would be in jail by now.

It really is appealing to the Joe Duffy brigade. The were discussing it on the FM104 Phoneshow last night too (the After Hours of radio) with people saying parents should not be allowing their children to train in martial arts

riffmongous

Whelo79 wrote: »

That's 41 strikes in 15 minutes. Works out at just less than 3 per minute. It's not that violent.

I was there that night, it was a hell of a fight. It would have taken fight of the night anywhere in the world. It was such a shame to end in tragic circumstances. Unfortunately, sometimes a tragedy like this is required to happen to put the wheels in motion for change and regulations.

But this is what I'm talking about, we don't see it as violent but you look at it from outside the mma/boxing POV and it is incredibly violent, and it's easy to lose sight of that watching in a sport context. How many punches to the head do you want to take outside of a ring? Now I'm not calling for mma to be changed or anything, it's a volunteer sport but I think it's important to keep in mind that everytime we talk about significant strikes, or KTFOs or guys getting tagged etc, what's actually happening, it's not the same as a guy scoring a goal.

ASOT

IMMAA statement below, all spot on.

IMMAA Statement wrote:

9th February 2018: Today the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Shane Ross publicly accused the Irish Mixed Martial Arts Association of "dragging its feet" in the establishment of appropriate governance and safety standards for the sport of MMA. He asked of IMMAA, what is taking so long?

It is therefore in the public's interest that IMMAA refutes this accusation openly. Unfortunately, the Minister's remarks can only be the result of misinformation.

Indeed, IMMAA proactively fulfils its duties as the national governing body for Irish MMA despite lack of official recognition, the main barrier to recognition being administrative.

When IMMAA (formerly IAPA) applied to Sport Ireland for official recognition in 2016, it was informed as per Sport Ireland procedure that it would need three years of financial transactions before it could be recognised. It is beyond IMMAA's powers to speed up bureaucratic process or to grant itself legal mandate to enforce its regulations. In spite of that, Irish MMA's 100% voluntary adherence to IMMAA protocol since the organisation's establishment in April 2016 proves the commitment of Ireland's MMA leaders to establishing appropriate governance and safety standards in the sport of MMA, against all odds and in the face of opposition.

Since the tragic passing of Joao Carvalho, every MMA promoter in Ireland has voluntarily worked to implement IMMAA's stringent safety protocol, which includes the independent, medical preclearance services of voluntary organisation, Safe MMA. This can be demonstrated by medical records from all those events. In addition, all events have been commissioned and officiated by IMMAA officials to ensure safety standards are adhered to.

It is worth noting that IMMAA's amateur MMA safety standards already far exceed those of any other amateur martial art/combat sport, and our professional requirements are comparable with those of professional boxing. The third party medical preclearance and advisory services implemented by IMMAA are unique in sport; and Irish MMA under IMMAA can reasonably boast the most advanced medical protocols in the world for MMA, which it has sustained for over 18 months without any legal mandate. International promoters holding arena events in Ireland have also complied with the standards set and adopted by the Irish MMA community under IMMAA.

Further to this, in line with the IABA (Boxing), the IAWA (wrestling), the IJA (Judo) and Kickboxing Ireland, IMMAA has secured dedicated insurance for its member clubs. IMMAA successfully petitioned the Garda for the mandate to vet its members despite its lack of recognition so that now MMA coaches can be fully vetted. IMMAA members also became the first coaches anywhere in the world to be awarded MMA coaching licenses by our international association, the International Mixed Martial Arts Federation. Self-funding Irish MMA athletes and coaches have won World and Continental Championship medals for their country under IMMAA but remain largely unacknowledged.
It has even been asserted that IMMAA is not a legal entity, when this is simply not true. IMMAA is a limited company registered as “NGB IMMAA†with the CRO (Company number: 598102) since February 2017.

It is solely the commitment and hard work of IMMAA's voluntary committee members and the Irish MMA community that has made all of the above possible.
Minister, IMMAA fully agrees with you that the recognition and regulation of MMA should not take so long, and we would welcome a meeting to discuss how the protection and governance of MMA's participants can be most quickly progressed in Ireland.

TerrorFirmer

Shane Ross should be made apologise for that remark....he's a man out of his depth in virtually every aspect of his portfolio, he bumbles his way through absolutely everything.

rob316

I was at the cage legacy show last night in cork. Rte were down there looking for a scoop, trying to interview any official they could. Kavanagh was there too.

Absolute clown Ross is, as someone who has fought amateur in this country the safety regulations are over the top if anything. Safe mma has done a tremendous job with the implementation of compulsory mri scans for competitors.

Whelo79

rob316 wrote: »

I was at the cage legacy show last night in cork. Rte were down there looking for a scoop, trying to interview any official they could. Kavanagh was there too.

Absolute clown Ross is, as someone who has fought amateur in this country the safety regulations are over the top if anything. Safe mma has done a tremendous job with the implementation of compulsory mri scans for competitors.

I was at it myself and heard they were around alright. Good show, some decent scraps.

Great response from IMMAA regarding Ross's comments. Ball firmly back in his court.

Tazzimus

riffmongous wrote: »

But this is what I'm talking about, we don't see it as violent but you look at it from outside the mma/boxing POV and it is incredibly violent, and it's easy to lose sight of that watching in a sport context. How many punches to the head do you want to take outside of a ring? Now I'm not calling for mma to be changed or anything, it's a volunteer sport but I think it's important to keep in mind that everytime we talk about significant strikes, or KTFOs or guys getting tagged etc, what's actually happening, it's not the same as a guy scoring a goal.

A lot of sports are violent though, not just combat ones. Rugby can be fairly violent when it wants to be..

Also agree that Ross is a moron. They've been trying to get MMA recognised as an official sport for a while now, if the man actually did his job for 5 minutes he might realise that.