Considering purchasing a BMW 535d F10

mick535

hi lads in considering purchasing a bmw 535d F10. from bmw uk AUX.
perhaps a 2015 or 2016 from the uk with small miles fsh etc etc.
one concern i have however is how will the new G30 5series affect the future residual value of the f10 in perhaps 2 yrs.
i welcome your thoughts gents

biko

Moved out from old thread

bazz26

F10 prices have already taken a tumble since the G30 was launched. That and the weak sterling, large amount being imported has really depressed resale values here. The 535d is a nice but rare car here and dealers are trying to keep prices of them high as they tend to be bought by those who are a bit more of an enthusiast than your typical 520d/525d owner, however if you rolled up to a dealer tomorrow with one to trade in they wouldn't give you much more for it than a 520d.

If you can buy a nice one at a good price in the UK then I wouldn't concern yourself too much with resale values, just enjoy it while you have it imo.

mick535

thanks for your reply bazz great minds think alike lol
however i will have circa €33k tied up in the prospective purchase
so i have concerns . i once lost 20k in depreciation on a vw over 3yrs
so not planning on repeating that trick.
535 f10s are like hens teeth here so hard to guage .
although E60 535s still fetch strong money , a2008 e61 msport touring sold in december for approx 17k!!!!
decisions decisions

Heres Johnny

If you want to buy it you'll have to go in with the mindset that it's very likely to depreciate heavily even if it's taken a bit of a hit alreàdy.

You say 33k for a 2015/2016 model which sounds pretty good if you can get it. They must be a 75k car new here. So it's taken an awful hit already the depreciation won't stop when you buy it.

I think the 2008 for 17k must be the exception to the rule if thst price is true

Budget for your car losing half it's value at least in 3 years, maybe more.

Very nice car you are looking at though but you just have to accept it's going to be sore in the pocket.

carsfan2

BMW dealers here are asking low to mid 40’s for 2015/16 530d models so if you can do it low 30’s you’re ahead.
You still will lose a fair bit overa couple of years though. Every car loses value.
Another poster here, Wailin I think recently bought a 535d. He might have more info on the market.

Wailin

Mick just to give you an example of the type of depreciation you'll be expecting. I bought a 2013 525d F11 start of 2016 for 37k...a 3 yr old car that would have cost close to 70k new. I traded it in on a 2014 535d in November and got 24.5k for it. A loss of 12.5k in 2 yrs but over 5 yrs the car depreciated by 45.5k.

If you get a 2015/16 535d for 33k thats a good start. 2014 535d's are going for around 36k here. Over 2 yrs I'd expect my car to depreciate by at least 15k, if not more. Big 3 litre diesels are rare here, and for a reason. 90% of buyers want good economy and cheap tax. Dealers will use that as an excuse when you decide to trade in your 535d in 2 yrs time.

MarkN

Big engine BMWs = big depreciation. Unless the car is 10+ years old you're going to lose. I bought a 640D 9 months ago for mid 30s, it's probably lost €9,000 since if I was to trade it in. Maybe €6,000 if I sold privately.

bazz26

Premium brands in general depreciate heavily these days as they can be brought in cheap from the UK. I've an F10 520d and it's lost a fair chunk of money too since I bought it 2 years ago.

mick535

perhaps a 530d g30 msport might be a smarter burly for me in depreciation terms ??

carsfan2

mick535 wrote: »

perhaps a 530d g30 msport might be a smarter burly for me in depreciation terms ??

You’ll spend more to get into one but it will be a newer car obviously.
Depreciation wise I suspect you would lose similar amounts of money.
To be honest if your primary concern is depreciation then buying any performance car is difficult. Buying a 530 BMW of any recent age is never going to be a cheap option. It is the enthusiasts choice. You average punter is happy in a 520d as a dealer would say to you when you want to trade in your bigger engine variant. However, When you are buying one they will tell you how they are superior to the 520d and charge a premium.

Idbatterim

If you get a 2015/16 535d for 33k thats a good start. 2014 535d's are going for around 36k here. Over 2 yrs I'd expect my car to depreciate by at least 15k, if not more. Big 3 litre diesels are rare here, and for a reason. 90% of buyers want good economy and cheap tax. Dealers will use that as an excuse when you decide to trade in your 535d in 2 yrs time.

the 535d has cheap tax and fantastic fuel economy for an engine with that size, power, refinement!

Big engine BMWs = big depreciation. Unless the car is 10+ years old you're going to lose. I bought a 640D 9 months ago for mid 30s, it's probably lost €9,000 since if I was to trade it in. Maybe €6,000 if I sold privately.

the depreciation on the dross like the 520d and 320d I have heard of recently, is also staggering!

Just saw a 181 520d SE in the petrol station, had to laugh, looks like sh*t for a car that cost a pretty penny...

mick535

heres my petrol head way of thinking. given that after brexit the option of importing one will be over effectively,
and as they were never sold here in any real numbers.
shouldn't that keep used prices firm ?
albeit in a niche market

thierry14

A few years ago i would be all for it, but the market is changing and depreciation could be very heavy on such cars

Alot of the guys I know that bought 3l diesels in the past are now looking at Teslas

Cheaper to run, much faster, strong brand, small vrt, free supercharging

They are approaching 40k now in used market and are direct competitors to luxury performance diesels

I would still probably get a 535d but would be conscious of heavy depreciation in the next few years if electric performance cars like Tesla take off

Heres Johnny

mick535 wrote: »

heres my petrol head way of thinking. given that after brexit the option of importing one will be over effectively,
and as they were never sold here in any real numbers.
shouldn't that keep used prices firm ?
albeit in a niche market

Not to burst your bubble Mick but I don't think this is for you if you're hung up on depreciation so much. You will lose your bo**ox on a nearly new bmw I can guarantee you that. They have to go from new price to zero in about 10 years and it's steeper the newer they are.

Never mind about it being rare it's not a collector's item it's a mass produced car that there's little demand for really.

Nobody knows what brexit will bring but it's not like we bring them in here for free anyway, we get walloped on vrt already. I don't see import market changing too much for what it's worth.

Wailin

Idbatterim wrote: »

the 535d has cheap tax and fantastic fuel economy for an engine with that size, power, refinement!

Average motorist would not consider 36mpg economical. 50-55mpg is what most consider economical. Also, a used 520d would be roughly 10k cheaper than equally specced 535d.

Idbatterim wrote: »

the depreciation on the dross like the 520d and 320d I have heard of recently, is also staggering!

The 'dross' you're talking about is more than enough car for 80-90% of motorists. 190bhp with great economy keeps most drivers happy. This mindset boggles me to be honest about the 2 litre diesel. Do you think the same about 2 litre mercs, audis, skodas, VW's etc or is it just the BMW?

Heres Johnny

I'm going to have to insist that anyone who refers to 320d and 520d as dross, underpowered etc. must state what they drive. It's getting very boring the 20d engine is a very decent powerplant, timing chain issue excepted. I bet most posters drive something with both less bhp and less torque.
For what it's worth I've an e60 525i 6 cylinder but I've nothing against the 2.0d engine.

Idbatterim

Heres Johnny wrote: »

I'm going to have to insist that anyone who refers to 320d and 520d as dross, underpowered etc. must state what they drive. It's getting very boring the 20d engine is a very decent powerplant, timing chain issue excepted. I bet most posters drive something with both less bhp and less torque.
For what it's worth I've an e60 525i 6 cylinder but I've nothing against the 2.0d engine.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105593196&postcount=6142

congrats by the way, that is a very nice car with a nice engine! For what its worth a drive a S500 long wheel base, 5.6L amg body kit and exhaust, facelift lights body kit etc...

Heres Johnny

Idbatterim wrote: »

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105593196&postcount=6142

congrats by the way, that is a very nice car with a nice engine! For what its worth a drive a S500 long wheel base, 5.6L amg body kit and exhaust, facelift lights body kit etc...

You are the exception! Nice car. Lovely.

Idbatterim

Heres Johnny wrote: »

You are the exception! Nice car. Lovely.

the thing is though, its a ridiculous car I have. But it costs a fraction of that of a new 520d! People stare at the thing, I was in the garage earlier and saw a 181 520d, the thing was an SE. I just dont see the point, in paying that kind of stupid money, for that car...

Wailin

Idbatterim wrote: »

I was in the garage earlier

I'd say you practically live in the garage with that V8 engine! Rare car and fair play for having the balls to own one. Seriously though, what type of mpg on average do you get, sub 20mpg I would guess?

Idbatterim

Wailin wrote: »

I'd say you practically live in the garage with that V8 engine! Rare car and fair play for having the balls to own one. Seriously though, what type of mpg on average do you get, sub 20mpg I would guess?

I only have it a month, I can travel outside peak times, it costs me roughly E2.50 each way from ranelagh to rathcoole...

motorway mpg quite good, but city would be poor, obviously... It only cost me an extra E80 a year to insure over my other car, a facelift E46 facelift coupe with the 2.5 engine, a car that I love... (which is insane, I knew I would get done with the tax, I took it on the basis that the insurance increase was negligible, probably would have stuck with driving the bm otherwise)...

op if depreciation is a big concern, why not just go a few years older?

digiman

I bought a demo 520d in September which was dealer registered at end of 171 and had 1500km on it. I got it for 18% of the RRP, I since had the itch to get a 3.0L and asked about a trade-in price recently against a 530D X-drive and my car has depreciated a further 26% or apparently 40% of the original RRP in about 8 months. Needless to say I'm not buying that car as the dealer is not willing to drop the price of his nearly new car to match the depreciating of my nearly new car.

You are really hamstrung in this country when buying a premium car here every 2-3 years as it's almost impossible to sell a 30k 3 year old car 2nd hand so you have no option but to trade it in against a newer car here. I think the main thing is not to buy them brand-new but try get a dealer registered one or a demo one as you will get basically a brand new car but at least one take as much of a hit on the depreciation.

I would go to the UK and buy a car everytime if I was always able to sell my own privately but as said above that is almost impossible as nobody wants to give 30k to a private seller and have no guarantee or come-back.

Idbatterim

I was over in the uk a few years ago quite a lot. But there they were very well priced and specced . Over here a BMW from new? Lol! The comedy is at your expense!

carsfan2

Wow. Your new model 5 m sport is worth 60% of new rrp after 8 months.
That beats the horrendous trade in I was offered on my 18 month old 330e before Christmas.
The depreciation is unreal at the moment and I don’t think a 2 year old 535d is going to beat the curve.
These are cars you don’t buy with your head truth be told. We’d all be in Dacia’s if we worried only about depreciation.

MarkN

digiman wrote: »

I bought a demo 520d in September which was dealer registered at end of 171 and had 1500km on it. I got it for 18% of the RRP, I since had the itch to get a 3.0L and asked about a trade-in price recently against a 530D X-drive and my car has depreciated a further 26% or apparently 40% of the original RRP in about 8 months. Needless to say I'm not buying that car as the dealer is not willing to drop the price of his nearly new car to match the depreciating of my nearly new car.

You are really hamstrung in this country when buying a premium car here every 2-3 years as it's almost impossible to sell a 30k 3 year old car 2nd hand so you have no option but to trade it in against a newer car here. I think the main thing is not to buy them brand-new but try get a dealer registered one or a demo one as you will get basically a brand new car but at least one take as much of a hit on the depreciation.

I would go to the UK and buy a car everytime if I was always able to sell my own privately but as said above that is almost impossible as nobody wants to give 30k to a private seller and have no guarantee or come-back.

Amen to that. The M3 I had was a demo, 3,000kms, €125,000 new and I got it for €72,000. It was 9 months old or something and still had the new car smell. Got a 6 month old F10 520d in 2012, €60,000+ new, got it for €48,000.

I can’t stop looking at G30s, have a real goo for one and again, a 172 can be had for €12-15,000 less than a 181.

carsfan2

Wait another 12 months and g30 price levels will be same as f10. A g30 530d would have similar performance fo f10 535d.
I have a hankering for one myself but Irish Bmw dealers want to have it every way as digiman has experienced.

JoeA3

Purchased a relatively fresh (<12 months old) 4 GC myself recently. RRP on the car 12 months ago was ballpark 62-63k. I got it for around 47k and it still has the "new car smell" ffs. The depreciation in that first 12 months is pretty savage so I'm glad I avoided that, but I still have some concerns that by the time I move it on it'll have lost a shed load more !

Buying these cars brand new is completely crazy by all accounts.

Blazer

Its for any car once you start going over the 40K mark.
I'm looking at switching my f10 525d to a 7 seater so something like the Peugeot 5008, s-max or galaxy.
The depreciation on a 2 year old s-max or galaxy is about 15-20k off a 45k price. Absolutely nuts and its swinging me towards getting a 161/162 car instead of new.
So not just BMW but nearly every car is getting savagely hit in depreciation. I suppose pcp has a lot to blame for it?
Although I bought a new car for 28.5k back in 2005 and 17 months later has lost 14.5k in depreciation due to Nissan doing the 2 for 1 offer. That turned me off getting a new car for years.

carsfan2

I don’t think pcp is the reason more sterling being where it is.
Bmw’s Are also massively discounted new in the uk. 20% plus discounts are available on new and there is also a lot of pre registered cars there.
This means nearly new cars are worth a lot less there and imports are very viable here.

I had a quick look at Bavaria Bmw in Belfast there. A well specced 2017 g30 530d with m sport plus pack, comfort pack, visibility pack and 8k miles is 34k sterling. Thats 38.5/39k euro. VRT is coming in on the calculator at 8600 euro.
Irish dealers can probably buy these from Bmw uk cheaper even.
Equivalent cars on Carzone with Irish dealers are minimum 64k and these cars would have retailed at 80k plus when new.
Irish Bmw dealers price trade ins against what they can get a uk car for But when they retail it they want the full Irish price.
Basically bread buttered on both sides.
If op buys a second hand 535d he will lose a chunk regardless of what he paid as these cars just continue to fall.

Heres Johnny

carsfan2 wrote: »

I don’t think pcp is the reason more sterling being where it is.
Bmw’s Are also massively discounted new in the uk. 20% plus discounts are available on new and there is also a lot of pre registered cars there.
This means nearly new cars are worth a lot less there and imports are very viable here.

I had a quick look at Bavaria Bmw in Belfast there. A well specced 2017 g30 530d with m sport plus pack, comfort pack, visibility pack and 8k miles is 34k sterling. Thats 38.5/39k euro. VRT is coming in on the calculator at 8600 euro.
Irish dealers can probably buy these from Bmw uk cheaper even.
Equivalent cars on Carzone with Irish dealers are minimum 64k and these cars would have retailed at 80k plus when new.
Irish Bmw dealers price trade ins against what they can get a uk car for But when they retail it they want the full Irish price.
Basically bread buttered on both sides.
If op buys a second hand 535d he will lose a chunk regardless of what he paid as these cars just continue to fall.

Yep I went and checked because your figures seemed miles off I thought there couldn't be that difference, but you are right.
That's some massive difference. Almost 20 grand or 30% gap and vrt is not to blame!!
The only thing I can think of is that a ROI resident can't pcp in the north as far as I know but that shouldn't matter really.
How are the dealers here still open?

Just apathy from consumers??

digiman

carsfan2 wrote: »

I don’t think pcp is the reason more sterling being where it is.
Bmw’s Are also massively discounted new in the uk. 20% plus discounts are available on new and there is also a lot of pre registered cars there.
This means nearly new cars are worth a lot less there and imports are very viable here.

I had a quick look at Bavaria Bmw in Belfast there. A well specced 2017 g30 530d with m sport plus pack, comfort pack, visibility pack and 8k miles is 34k sterling. Thats 38.5/39k euro. VRT is coming in on the calculator at 8600 euro.
Irish dealers can probably buy these from Bmw uk cheaper even.
Equivalent cars on Carzone with Irish dealers are minimum 64k and these cars would have retailed at 80k plus when new.
Irish Bmw dealers price trade ins against what they can get a uk car for But when they retail it they want the full Irish price.
Basically bread buttered on both sides.
If op buys a second hand 535d he will lose a chunk regardless of what he paid as these cars just continue to fall.

Buying in the north is definitely the best way forward but how does one sell their own car first here to purchase one in the north? This is where the Irish dealers have us and also PCP helps with the financing. But having learned my lesson from the last time if I was to do it again I would have been better off selling my own car for half its value here and going up the North to buy one.

JoeA3

That’s the problem for sure. Going up North / UK is all fine and dandy if you’re a cash buyer and don’t have a reasonably valuable trade in to consider. Selling a 20-30k car privately is not very feasible in most cases unless the stars align.

MarkN

Well you can try and sell yours yourself. It's always the better option. I did the sums last week and you can get a UK 530d G30 for under 50k - same car as has been mentioned above is 65-70k in Joe Duffy/Keanes etc

California Dreamer

digiman wrote: »

Buying in the north is definitely the best way forward

I wouldn't agree with that 100%. Cars in the NI seem to have a bit of a premium over cars in England. Sometimes can be about £1000-1500 more expensive.

bazz26

You will pay a bit more for the convenience of being able to get a train/bus to the North and have the car home in a few hours compared to flights/ferry to the UK.

carsfan2

I would probably pay 500/1000 euro more for the convenience of being able to drive north, see the car and drive home. Mainland uk cars do seem cheaper and bigger selection obviously.
I just picked Bavaria Bmw as it’s belfast and it came to mind. Just illustrating the savings available.
Where republic dealers have you is taking a trade and offering finance but if you could sell privately it’s possible to finance yourself or bank/ credit union and save a packet.

bazz26

Bavaria BMW will take southern reg trade-ins too afaik.

joseywales

Charles Hurst NI will also take a southern reg off your hands. Will only give you a trade price, expect 10-15% less than you might expect from a private sale, based on what I was offered just a few weeks ago for my 520d.

Truckermal

JoeA3 wrote: »

That’s the problem for sure. Going up North / UK is all fine and dandy if you’re a cash buyer and don’t have a reasonably valuable trade in to consider. Selling a 20-30k car privately is not very feasible in most cases unless the stars align.

I am in that exact position, We looked at a beautiful 520 M Sport plus yesterday (171) but trying to sell our own 151 A4 will be impossible I reckon.

Idbatterim

To get around this. Why don't dealers with locations in the north and south. Simply take your car as trade in and flog it down south?