Question regarding bet

ANDREWMUFC · 07-02-2018 1:48am #1

On Friday morning I went into a paddy power shop and put 10 quid e/w on a horse called Master of Irony that would be running in the 4:05 at leopardstown on Saturday

Then on Saturday morning the horse became a non runner so that was that.

Anyway I went into the shop today to get my 20 quid back and they turn around and say that it comes under ante post rules so I get no refund, yet the horse was DECLARED to run in the race on Saturday?

Is this right ??

lifeandtimes · 07-02-2018 1:55am

ANDREWMUFC wrote: »

On Friday morning I went into a paddy power shop and put 10 quid e/w on a horse called Master of Irony that would be running in the 4:05 at leopardstown on Saturday

Then on Saturday morning the horse became a non runner so that was that.

Anyway I went into the shop today to get my 20 quid back and they turn around and say that it comes under ante post rules so I get no refund, yet the horse was DECLARED to run in the race on Saturday?

Is this right ??

Non-runner no bet. Ante-post betting ceases at 10am on the day of the overnight declaration stage and all bets placed after that stage will be 'non-runner no bet', ie. your bet stake will be refunded if your horse fails to compete. Tattersalls Rule 4 may apply.

Seems you may have placed your bet prior to the overnight declaration stage....tweet them and see what they say.....theyre usually sound

finbarrk · 07-02-2018 1:30pm

If he was declared you should get your money back. That's the way I always understood it anyway.

Fanny Wank · 07-02-2018 2:04pm

finbarrk wrote: »

If he was declared you should get your money back. That's the way I always understood it anyway.

Not if it was an ante post bet, you'd often see a bookie state "all in, RUN or not"

Peintre Celebre · 07-02-2018 2:16pm

Fanny **** wrote: »

Not if it was an ante post bet, you'd often see a bookie state "all in, RUN or not"

They were two day decs for leop. Should be money back any bets after thursday morn

Fanny Wank · 07-02-2018 2:17pm

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

They were two day decs for leop. Should be money back any bets after thursday morn

Oh absolutely, if it's day of the race money back

Had no idea if it was or wasn't though

Peintre Celebre · 07-02-2018 2:19pm

Fanny **** wrote: »

Oh absolutely, if it's day of the race money back

Had no idea if it was or wasn't though

He said it was friday morn. Should be dosh back

posturingpat · 07-02-2018 2:27pm

Go in and ask again and get them to ring trading or their results section. It could be a case of the bet being put on before final decs in which case it'd be an antepost bet and no money back or it could be that it was processed wrong in the system and put in as an antepost bet in error despite a new market being available.
Some cashiers would have very little interest/knowledge in racing(or the job), would just run the docket through and if it's settled as a loser wouldn't even look at it twice to see if anything wrong on the docket.

ANDREWMUFC · 07-02-2018 2:36pm

When I went in the bird behind the till called in but they said it was ante post too but what can ya do I suppose

emeldc · 07-02-2018 2:45pm

ANDREWMUFC wrote: »

When I went in the bird behind the till called in but they said it was ante post too but what can ya do I suppose

It's a long time since I worked in the betting business but heres my take on it:

If you took a price on Friday then it's ante-post and you lose.
If you left it as SP then you had no advantage by placing the bet early and so it should be classed as a non runner.

Peintre Celebre · 07-02-2018 4:13pm

Lads what are ye missing. Decs were thursday anything after was NRNB!!

jj mac · 07-02-2018 4:41pm

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

Lads what are ye missing. Decs were thursday anything after was NRNB!!

Exactly this. Any bets made after final decs which was Thursday cannot be subject to ante post rules. Therefore you made your bet on Friday your horse was withdrawn so you get your money back. Get on to pp support and explain this to them and get your feckin money back off them.

Pinesky · 07-02-2018 9:44pm

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

Lads what are ye missing. Decs were thursday anything after was NRNB!![/
Paddy Power rules on ante post betting
Non-runner no bet. Ante-post betting ceases at 10am on the day of the overnight declaration stage and all bets placed after that stage will be 'non-runner no bet', ie. your bet stake will be refunded if your horse fails to compete. Tattersalls Rule 4 may apply.

emeldc · 07-02-2018 10:53pm

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

Lads what are ye missing. Decs were thursday anything after was NRNB!!

They’re the 4 day declarations and still subject to ante post rules IIRC. The op hasn’t said whether he took a price or not. That’s the difference for me.

ANDREWMUFC · 07-02-2018 10:58pm

emeldc wrote: »

They’re the 4 day declarations and still subject to ante post rules IIRC. The op hasn’t said whether he took a price or not. That’s the difference for me.

Yes I wrote down 25/1 on the slip which was the price on PP website

jj mac · 07-02-2018 10:58pm

This is from pp help centre.
Further rules regarding Rule 4
Rule 4 deductions only occur AFTER the final declarations for a race are made. Usually the final declaration stage is 24 hours before the race but it can be 48 hours before a race.

In the event of a horse being withdrawn, not under starter’s orders, stakes on that selection will be returned. Bets for the remaining horses in that race will be subject to a deduction in accordance with Tattersall’s Rule 4 (c), based on the ‘early price’ of the withdrawn horse at the time of withdrawal (see table above).

In races where more than one horse is withdrawn, the deduction will not exceed 90p per £1 (or 90%).

emeldc · 07-02-2018 11:01pm

ANDREWMUFC wrote: »

Yes I wrote down 25/1 on the slip which was the price on PP website

Then IMO it’s a loser.

jj mac · 07-02-2018 11:18pm

emeldc wrote: »

Then IMO it’s a loser.

Look at my previous post. It's from pp site. If a declared horse is withdrawn not under orders your stake is returned. Whether you have taken a price or not doesn't matter.

emeldc · 07-02-2018 11:26pm

jj mac wrote: »

Look at my previous post. It's from pp site. If a declared horse is withdrawn not under orders your stake is returned. Whether you have taken a price or not doesn't matter.

Yep, seems clear enough. Obviously some of the staff in PP don’t understand it either. My excuse is that I’m out of it 30+ years but the general rules are still the same.

morrga · 07-02-2018 11:36pm

emeldc wrote: »

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

Lads what are ye missing. Decs were thursday anything after was NRNB!!

They’re the 4 day declarations and still subject to ante post rules IIRC. The op hasn’t said whether he took a price or not. That’s the difference for me.

You may be referring to the entry stage which is ante post rules but this bet was not struck at entry day stage. There were 48 hour declarations for Leopardstown last week to ensure maximum media exposure to preview races. 48 hour decs is a common occurrence as it occurs every Friday for our Sunday racing.
Any bet struck after 10am last Thursday for Saturday’s racing is 100% NOT an ante post bet and therefore a refund is fully due.

The confusion may be in that it’s unusual for 48 hour decs for Saturday racing so cashiers would not be fully aware. The simple solution is to refer it to the trading desk who will clean this mess up.

ANDREWMUFC · 07-02-2018 11:37pm

jj mac wrote: »

Look at my previous post. It's from pp site. If a declared horse is withdrawn not under orders your stake is returned. Whether you have taken a price or not doesn't matter.

I should’ve mentioned but the horse was withdrawn on “vets advice” if that means anything

morrga · 07-02-2018 11:38pm

emeldc wrote: »

ANDREWMUFC wrote: »

Yes I wrote down 25/1 on the slip which was the price on PP website

Then IMO it’s a loser.

Taking a price does not constitute an ante post bet. It is entirely driven by the declaration stage. Before decs is ante post, anything after is a non runner money back.

jj mac · 07-02-2018 11:42pm

ANDREWMUFC wrote: »

I should’ve mentioned but the horse was withdrawn on “vets advice” if that means anything

Ring pp help line. You will get your money back. Some workers in shops not up to speed with rules. Good luck.

emeldc · 07-02-2018 11:45pm

morrga wrote: »

Taking a price does not constitute an ante post bet. It is entirely driven by the declaration stage. Before decs is ante post, anything after is a non runner money back.

It does if it’s prior to the declaration stage. That’s the whole point of it. As you say, if the decs were made 48 hrs prior to the race then it looks like the OP should get a refund. Had they been 24 hr declarations which would be the norm it’s a loser.

diomed · 08-02-2018 11:31am

ANDREWMUFC wrote: »

I should’ve mentioned but the horse was withdrawn on “vets advice” if that means anything

The vet had backed something else?

dk6dk6 · 08-02-2018 2:32pm

Why do I have a feeling the OP got his days mixed up and did the bet earlier than he thought?

Check your slip to make sure you did actually place the bet Friday morning and not Thursday morning.

morrga · 09-02-2018 12:10am

emeldc wrote: »

morrga wrote: »

Taking a price does not constitute an ante post bet. It is entirely driven by the declaration stage. Before decs is ante post, anything after is a non runner money back.

It does if it’s prior to the declaration stage. That’s the whole point of it. As you say, if the decs were made 48 hrs prior to the race then it looks like the OP should get a refund. Had they been 24 hr declarations which would be the norm it’s a loser.

My point is deciding to take a price does not mean it’s automatically an ante post bet.

Question regarding bet

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