Parking without planning permission

passamonious

Hi,
I'm going to purchase an apartment with a park car space. The car space has no planning permission and they do not want to change it for one with planning (they say there is none left). The 7 years have passed since they built the car spaces so as far as I know nobody can actually take any legal action agains them. Nonetheless, they don't have planning permission and I don't know what could happen.

Could I lose my car space?
Do you know if I can request to the Dublin City Council to legalize it?

Victor

If they ever ask for planning permission in the future, the risk is that the council will insist that the development is it is currently will be required to be made compliant.

Teyla Emmagan

Where is this car parking space? I presume it is not in the basement of the building but outside somewhere?

But to answer your question, yes you could definitely lose it. Adverse possession will kick in in another few years but until then it could just disappear if the Council or whoever get involved and decide to regularise the situation. Especially if there is any chance it is somewhere that you could fit a house onto.

passamonious

The car space is located in the internal patio of the building, but not in in a basement but outside. Fitting a house would be difficult but not impossible. Do you think it's reasonable to get in touch with Dublin City Council or that could backfire?

Spanish Eyes

I'd run a mile quite frankly if I did not have a dedicated, legal, and personally owned parking space in a development that was clearly marked on my deeds.

Anyone could nip into that space at any time surely. Parking wars are not pleasant.

But best of luck. Sounds onerous and potentially troublesome to me.

garhjw

Do you really need the space.? If so you need the planning sorted. If you don't need it amend your offer to reflect the risk of losing the space

C3PO

I don't really understand how the OP could lose the space if he buys it - it would then be his piece of land! For sure, there is a possibility that he may not able to use it as a parking space if there is some sort of enforcement proceedings but I can't see how it could be somehow used to build on without his agreement? Surely he would own it?

Victor

C3PO wrote: »

I don't really understand how the OP could lose the space if he buys it - it would then be his piece of land! For sure, there is a possibility that he may not able to use it as a parking space if there is some sort of enforcement proceedings but I can't see how it could be somehow used to build on without his agreement? Surely he would own it?

As the property is an apartment, at best the resident would have is an exclusive licence to use, not outright ownership.

C3PO

Victor wrote: »

... at best the resident would have is an exclusive licence to use, not outright ownership.

In that case how do people sell parking spaces along with apartments ... I don’t believe that you can assign a licence?

Gumbo

Very strange set up.
Can you post a link to the for sale ad.

Samuel T. Cogley

C3PO wrote: »

In that case how do people sell parking spaces along with apartments ... I don’t believe that you can assign a licence?

It is a licence only and people do sell them so I'm guessing you can assign a licence even without selling the apartment (as people sell them separately).

jimmycrackcorm

As a solicitor friend said to me about an apartment purchase, all you're paying money for is the air between the four outer walls. I don't really see an issue with the parking space unless it could be invalidated if having a vehicle on it would cause a safety obstruction such as blocking an escape from fire. It's simply an area of space, so it comes down to whether or not the purchase can claim title to that space.

It's within the private confines of the complex and if not designated as a common area and that space is included as part of the apartment folio then I can't really see any practical issue.

4ensic15

Victor wrote: »

As the property is an apartment, at best the resident would have is an exclusive licence to use, not outright ownership.

Not necessarily, sometimes they are leased with the apartment for periods of several hundered years.

4ensic15

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

It is a licence only and people do sell them so I'm guessing you can assign a licence even without selling the apartment (as people sell them separately).

A licence is always personal to the individual. There is often a lease and sometimes an easement. In most apartment block the parking spaces can't be assigned separately from an apartment.

Teyla Emmagan

It sounds like it's not "your" car parking space at all. Is it actually on the deeds for the apartment? Or is it just that that space has always been used by whoever owned that apartment?

dubrov

It sounds like someone chanced their arm by drawing a space in the common area and no one contested it.

I certainly wouldn't value the car park space at full price.

the_syco

passamonious wrote: »

Hi,
I'm going to purchase an apartment with a park car space. The car space has no planning permission and they do not want to change it for one with planning (they say there is none left).

I read that as; you're buying an apartment whose neighbour owns the carpark space.

Should you go ahead with the purchase, the carpark space won't be in your name, and as I doubt it'll be in the purchase agreement, the sellers will wipe their hands of it.

passamonious

passamonious wrote: »

The car space is located in the internal patio of the building,...

Any fire reg implications from being on the internal patio of the building? If so, forget it.

Another possibility is simply that the intrenal patio might have been left empty for aesthetic reasons. Since many might have bought on basic of clear internal spaces, there is a risk that this could be enforced in the future.

Del2005

Deleted User wrote: »

Any fire reg implications from being on the internal patio of the building? If so, forget it.

Another possibility is simply that the intrenal patio might have been left empty for aesthetic reasons. Since many might have bought on basic of clear internal spaces, there is a risk that this could be enforced in the future.

It's an apartment complex so the person never owned the patio to convert it to parking, there's also the issue that the car isn't parking on a properly prepared surface so if anything does go wrong the OP could have a large repair bill from the Management Company

ittakestwo

You never own an apartment..... You buy a lease, usually of around 1000 years minus how old the apartment complex is. If the lease you buy does not include a car parking space then you don't have one.

It is impossible for a leaseholder of an apartment to get prescriptive rights against thier apartment block so legally the seller can not sell you a car parking space with the lease. Does not mean you can't park there if no one objects but if they do you won't have legal leg to stand on in trying to keep it.

I would say it would be more likely lost from an arsehole in the complex objecting rather than the council getting involved without a complaint made.

Graham

dubrov wrote: »

I certainly wouldn't value the car park space at full price.

I don't think I'd attach any value to the as-long-as-you-can-get-away-with-it parking space.