Tips for getting starting on investing with DeGiro?

CherylX

Hi, We have transferred around €20k to Degiro and would like to invest it in various funds. Can anyone offer some advice or point us in the right direction to make sense of the multitude of funds available? What should we be looking for? I understand taxes are a complication - we would be taxed in highest bracket for any income - how do we take that into account? Thanks for any help.

topper_harley2

Have you searched this forum for ETF threads? There is much information on here on funds, tax treatment etc.

CherylX

Thanks. Yes I have had a read through quite a few posts.

My initial understanding is there is an advantage to US EFTs from a tax perspective as it has Capital gain tax of 33% on the gain (plus 51% on income on dividends - as we would be highest tax band) - with an annual CGT exemption of €1270. Individual shares are treated similarly. However, since Jan 2018 US funds need to issue a KID document to trade in EU. Most are not doing it, so those US EFT funds are now not available on De Giro or others. Are there any US EFTs still available?

Irish and EU EFTs are taxed at 41% on exit (dividends are usually reinvested) and disposals are deemed to occur every 8 years (ie pay the tax every 8 years) but there's is no rollup/ offsetting.

So i'm not sure where to go from there. As it seems the US ones are best but are no longer available. Any suggestions? I read on one post that an alternative could be a UK investment trust - also treated as capital gains.

In terms of timing, we were planning to invest €5k per month. There is no difference fees wise to buy monthly (at least on the list of free funds) but a complication of buying monthly is that you should track the price you buy so you can mark it off when you sell for tax purposes, which also seems complicated!

Any other insights very welcome.

unplayable

hey guys i put 100£ on de giro just to get used to it.

bought 80 shares in hive

fee was nearly 7£ plus the awful exchange rate and share dropping means im down 15%.

am i wasting my time with such small figures i heard it was cheapest place to trade but this seems high.

are most people putting 5k plus in their accounts.

thanks

unplayable

hey guys i put 100£ on de giro just to get used to it.

bought 80 shares in hive

fee was nearly 7£ plus the awful exchange rate and share dropping means im down 15%.

am i wasting my time with such small figures i heard it was cheapest place to trade but this seems high.

are most people putting 5k plus in their accounts.

thanks

CherylX

The £7 fee does seem high. The fees I can see on the Irish site state €2 + 0.01 per share, so it would be €2.80. But not sure if I'm missing something. Maybe contact them directly to check.

I can't add the link as I'm a new user but the fee schedule is on their website

neris

Your wasting your time with €100

topper_harley2

CherylX wrote: »

Thanks. Yes I have had a read through quite a few posts.

My initial understanding is there is an advantage to US EFTs from a tax perspective as it has Capital gain tax of 33% on the gain (plus 51% on income on dividends - as we would be highest tax band) - with an annual CGT exemption of €1270. Individual shares are treated similarly. However, since Jan 2018 US funds need to issue a KID document to trade in EU. Most are not doing it, so those US EFT funds are now not available on De Giro or others. Are there any US EFTs still available?

Irish and EU EFTs are taxed at 41% on exit (dividends are usually reinvested) and disposals are deemed to occur every 8 years (ie pay the tax every 8 years) but there's is no rollup/ offsetting.

So i'm not sure where to go from there. As it seems the US ones are best but are no longer available. Any suggestions? I read on one post that an alternative could be a UK investment trust - also treated as capital gains.

In terms of timing, we were planning to invest €5k per month. There is no difference fees wise to buy monthly (at least on the list of free funds) but a complication of buying monthly is that you should track the price you buy so you can mark it off when you sell for tax purposes, which also seems complicated!

Any other insights very welcome.

Investing monthly in Ireland in UCIT funds is serious serious pain in the ar$e. I tried it 2 years ago for 6 months, and the spreadsheets needed to keep track are just nonsense. Factor in eight year stuff and will be drowning in paperwork in a few years.

I often say on here that investing is not a standalone thing. There may be other areas to consider e.g. are you maxing out your pension contributions.
Do you have other debts? i.e. mortgage? If not, are you planning on buying any property in next 5 years?

TheSheriff

unplayable wrote: »

am i wasting my time with such small figures i heard it was cheapest place to trade but this seems high.

I would say €500-1000 minimum per trade.

drunkmonkey

unplayable wrote: »

hey guys i put 100£ on de giro just to get used to it.

bought 80 shares in hive

fee was nearly 7£ plus the awful exchange rate and share dropping means im down 15%.

am i wasting my time with such small figures i heard it was cheapest place to trade but this seems high.

are most people putting 5k plus in their accounts.

thanks

You bought a very small amount of shares and i'm guessing on the borse so that's why the high charge as it's a flat charge of € 7.50 + 0.08%, to buy them direct on the tsxv is € 2.00 + CAD 0.01 per share, so about 2.80 + the fx charge.

Don't think your wasting your time with Hive that's about to blow up, had a good day today (+8.29%) and going into another ETF tomorrow, the 12mt outlook for your 80 shares everything staying as it is about 2k.
Hold them unless the ass falls out of crypto that means Ether below 200 and bitcoin at 2k.

The fees are here

drunkmonkey

neris wrote: »

Your wasting your time with €100

Not with Hive. He'll still see at least 1k within 6mts.

CherylX

topper_harley2 wrote: »

Investing monthly in Ireland in UCIT funds is serious serious pain in the ar$e. I tried it 2 years ago for 6 months, and the spreadsheets needed to keep track are just nonsense. Factor in eight year stuff and will be drowning in paperwork in a few years.

I often say on here that investing is not a standalone thing. There may be other areas to consider e.g. are you maxing out your pension contributions.
Do you have other debts? i.e. mortgage? If not, are you planning on buying any property in next 5 years?

Thanks Topper_harley2. Yes, it's a fair question. We have a mortgage on a fixed rate, we're putting money in our pensions but not at max rate. We'd like to save this money for a rainy day/ college fees etc. So don't want to tie it up completely. Not sure what's the best option at this stage to be honest!

drunkmonkey

If your going to start dabbling in shares do some home work on the companies you like the look of or think have long term prospects which might be around in 10 years if you intend to keep them that long.
It's very difficult keep track of all the news on a business so keep your portfolio to a minimum, maybe 5 or less.

It can be as simple as looking around you, what phone do you have, what do you drive, what do you drink, what make is your TV, what's your job and how much of an understanding of that business have you.
From a list like that your probably going to come up with something like, Google, Peugeot, Coca Cola, Samsung, Pfizer. Study those to see what way there valued and if it's now time to buy or keep away as there overbought.

Also look at things you or other people aspire to, for example last year everyone was saying buy Tesla and a few friends put deposits on them, I thought hold on a second I don't want a tesla I want a ferrari or porsche so I went and bought shares in both of them, I doubled my money and took my profit and off I went again to see what's next.

With an account like degiro it's easy to buy and sell so it's easy to get out of a trade if your in profit. If your in profit take it if it beats your expectations in a lot shorter timeframe than you'd hoped as things can change in a split second.
If it's a long term trade don't panic if it dips unless there's doomsday news.

Your right your money is going nowhere in the bank, but you could loose it all if you panic or back the wrong horse. So spread it out among different industries. So if you buy stocks in a car manufacturer and the whole industry is down your account won't be down over all.

If you wanted one established company to look at I'd say start with peugeot, it's after scooping up a lot of awards, sales are up and it's half the price it was before the crash in 2008. I'm not saying buy it as I haven't looked at it enough but on a quick glance it's got room to run sometime. Study just one business and go from there.

topper_harley2

CherylX wrote: »

Thanks Topper_harley2. Yes, it's a fair question. We have a mortgage on a fixed rate, we're putting money in our pensions but not at max rate. We'd like to save this money for a rainy day/ college fees etc. So don't want to tie it up completely. Not sure what's the best option at this stage to be honest!

Yes as you can imagine so it's difficult for people here to give good advice with only
minimal information.
What rate is your mortgage? Have you asked about moving from fixed (you can break out) to variable to allow overpayments? If you did this aggressively for 5 years you could save up to 100k on interest, meaning you could then save all mortgage money towards college etc. No timelines given here for this by you....

Edit: saving for a rainy day should be done in saving account in bank, never in shares. Rainy days happen unexpectedly, most likely when your shares are down 40%. As I said, investing is rarely an isolated thing...

the goon

Have you considered a managed EIIS fund? If you are paying tax at the top rate you would get the benefit of tax relief and an investment. Just be careful with your 20k.