Vets and Boosters yes or no.

mobby

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/3-puppy-vaccination-mistakes-too-early-too-often-too-much/

Any thoughts on this article, got a new cavalier pup recently after a lot checking out various breeders decided on one particular one, liked what I saw, met the mother and father, breeder is known for her healthy approach to this breed and came recommended, She has vaccinated our pup and tells me if I come back to her in a year she will apply the booster and that in her opinion that all he will need for the rest of his life and don’t let our vet vaccinate unnecessary boosters 3 to 4 time a year.
I would not say she is a fan of most vets to be honest 
Our Pup, I will have to say is a stunner; really very healthy looking and so were both the parents and two other pups in the litter. the breeder has other cavalier dogs and says most of them will or have lived in the 13/14 years plus which is good for the breed; she recommended the raw food (Nutriment) which he loves. I have not been to the vet with him yet so before I do go I would just like so thoughts on what maybe or not harmful and unnecessary injections.

tk123

At the end of the day only you can decide OP and a good Vet will respect your decision. Both of mine have yearly checkups and had puppy and 6 month checkups too so we’re not anti Vet.. I stopped vaccinating my two and the vet was fine with my decision because she knew i’d put a lot of thought into it.
Both were titre tested last year - one in lieu of needing up to date vaccinations for something we were doing to prove she had immunity and the other just out of interest to see if it had changed much since his first one. The vet called me and told me i had ‘2 heathy doggies’ lol.
The only thing is that you may miss out on puppy classes or some kennels/boarders will expect them to be vaccinated if they won’t accept titres? This may or may not be a problem for you.

Just on the breeder vaccinating - i’m not sure if she’s allowed to do that technically - maybe somebody else can advise? And her vaccination protocol is one of many - everyone has a different idea on it.

Enjoy your pup but be prepared for raised eyebrows on both the vaccinating and raw feeding lol. I just ignore it lol .

CircleofLife

I just want to weigh in a bit on this- if you ever want to put your dog in kennels, they will require a vaccination record, if you want to put them in doggy daycare, they'll require one, most groomers will require a vaccination record. That said, vets can also do a thing called a titre test which will measure the level of vaccine in the dog's blood. Some places will accept a printout of that instead.

CelticRambler

mobby wrote: »

Any thoughts on this article ...

Typical anti-vaxxer nonsense, with just enough cherry picked "facts" to make it believable.

Here’s a list of potential adverse vaccine reactions ...

Which means veterinary/medical authorities actually care about keeping a record of when things go wrong, so there's a list of things that have gone wrong, even if it only affected one dog in the back end of Swaziland.

It may come as a surprise to you – and to many vets – that vaccination and immunization are not the same thing. Your dog or puppy is perfectly capable of creating immunity all by himself – and once he does, the immunity likely lasts for a lifetime.

Any vet who doesn't know the difference between "vaccination" and "immunization" wouldn't make it through the first year of vet school, never mind a whole semester studying immunology. And of course a dog or puppy is capable of "creating immunity" by himself - otherwise vaccination wouldn't work. However, that immunity does not necessarily last a lifetime (think flu virus/vaccines in humans). It very much depends on the circumstances of vaccination, the virus concerned, the frequencey with which the dog comes into contact with the virus day-to-day, and plenty of other factors.

Natural immunity is how most dogs survived without vaccination when parvovirus first came on the scene over thirty years ago – and how the original strain of parvo is still in the environment but very rarely causes noticeable clinical signs in dogs.

The author has obviously never set foot in a rescue centre ... or spoken to many vets. Parvo is very much alive and well and still killing dogs every year.

Most vets haven’t seen a case of distemper in years ...

Just like most doctors hadn't seen a case of measles in years - until the anti-vaxxers decided to play Russian roulette with their children, and now a disease that was almost eradicated is attacking children in cities like Dublin and Limerick.

Many also contain coronavirus

No, they don't. The average European dog will never, ever receive a vaccine containing corona virus, and the average European vet wouldn't even know where to get it without making a few phone calls.

Some puppies will also be vaccinated with other non-core vaccines including the particularly dangerous leptospirosis vaccine.

Yeah - maybe because their owners or their vets understand that leptospirosis (Weil's Disease) causes acute liver failure and is a horrible disease, requiring intensive care and barrier nursing, and is often fatal. There were 252 confirmed cases in the UK in 2016. It's also transmissable to humans. Lepto is on the increase, being a disease that's spread by rats when they wee in puddles and streams. With the increase in erratic rainfall/flooding/etc, leptospirosis is on the increase across north-western Europe.

many puppies receive 7 vaccines at once, not just 3!

Seems like the author has forgotten what "vaccination" and "immunization" means by this point in the article. :rolleyes: Most puppies will come in contact with at least a hundred viruses and bacteria every day; the fact that vets ensure they have occasional contact with three, five or seven of those is not a big deal for the dog's immune system.

Ultimately, it's your choice, but instead of getting your information from American journalists, read the science and rationale behind vaccination - http://www.wsava.org/guidelines/vaccination-guidelines - and discuss your dog's particular circumstances with your vet.

Nody

Can I ask what vet does boosters 3 to 4 times a year on a dog? Boosters are once a year; depending on vaccine even two or three years (looking at Rabies for example). Vaccination is a very chap insurance against something very nasty and short of teetering tests you never know when they need another shot (as it varies for each dog depending on how their immune system works) which is why there is a higher than normally required frequency on getting shots as it's set to the lowest denominator (and said vaccinations have been through extensive testing and laboratory checking before they are allowed to be sold inc. having to be consistent dosage in every batch). That in turn has made people think that it lasts a lifetime because by the next shot they are still showing as having enough anti bodies which is far from the truth; it is all individual but if you want to risk your best friend because you don't want to give them boosters feel free to apply the same theory to you. After all why bother with the Hep B or C vaccinations or anything else if you go travel since people have survived it for before vaccinations after all as well; sounds stupid? Well same applies to your dog short of keeping him indoors 24/7 you will not know what he will sniff, eat or do nor what was there before him and unlike you there's plenty of stuff to get him in Ireland.

borderlinemeath

Has the breeder shown you proof of vaccination that they administered themselves? I wouldn't be overly happy if a breeder did this to their litters, it screams of cutting costs and corners. By law, the puppies need to be microchipped, and if this breeder has an aversion to vets vaccinating the pups, you can be sure that they won't be microchipped either.

Puppies need their initial vaccinations, even the most vocal anti vaxxers will agree with this. Parvo kills pups and there's always reports of it posted on various rescue pages . A heavy worm burden also puts huge strain on young pups, they NEED their initial worming schedule as they are born with parasites.

Once a pup reaches adulthood, whatever vaccination and worming/flea schedule you want to do is up to you.

tk123

Nody wrote: »

Can I ask what vet does boosters 3 to 4 times a year on a dog?

Would they be mixing up vets restarting vaccines when a pup doesn't have a vaccination record? Some of the guidelines also recommend vaccinating from when the pup is 6 weeks and repeating every 2-3 weeks until 16 weeks..

I don't know what I'll do next time we have a pup with all the conflicting advice - i'm sure by then there'll be even more differing opinions.

CelticRambler

mobby wrote: »

got a new cavalier pup recently ... breeder is known for her healthy approach to this breed ... has vaccinated our pup

Out of interest, OP, at what age was the pup vaccinated, and with what vaccine? The breeder should have given you all the details (brand, lot no, date given, expiry date).

mobby

CelticRambler wrote: »

Out of interest, OP, at what age was the pup vaccinated, and with what vaccine? The breeder should have given you all the details (brand, lot no, date given, expiry date).

He would have been about 10 weeks it was Nobivac Dhppi, i was supplied all the details of the vaccine on paper lot number, expiry date etc, and the dog was micro-chipped, I would have no issue with the breeder she has a very good reputation for caring for the health issues with this breed.
Thanks for all you comments just wanted to get some information and have some idea in my head before i go the vet, we lost are 10 year old cavalier last August with a heart murmur he was given a year maybe two, lasted 6 months despite all the different meds he was on. he was originally diagnosed by the vet with suffering from heat stroke (panting), so vets do get it wrong. just like doctors over prescribing antibiotics despite being suppose to be highly trained and educated people, Vets can also prescribe medication that maybe not always required. I like the idea of that Titre test, anyway thanks again for the comments.

borderlinemeath

In fairness to vets - their patients cannot tell them where hurts, or if they feel short of breath, or lethargic, their diagnosis is purely based on observation of symptoms/bloods/temp etc, so a lot of times it is a process of elimination before the actual problem is diagnosed.

Cavaliers do suffer from heart disease, and syringomyelia, and various other ailments, and being brachycephalic, do pant a lot. And no amount of not vaccinating or avoiding of vets will ensure healthy cavaliers, unfortunately as a breed it's really hard to find healthy specimens or breeders that will test their dogs.

CelticRambler

mobby wrote: »

He would have been about 10 weeks it was Nobivac Dhppi, i was supplied all the details of the vaccine on paper lot number, expiry date etc, and the dog was micro-chipped, I would have no issue with the breeder she has a very good reputation for caring for the health issues with this breed.

Unfortunately a "very good reputation" doesn't always mean that any medical advice given is accurate. A lot of breeders get "tunnel vision" due to working only with their own breed, and their own blood lines, and their own carefully controlled environment; things change when the dogs go out into the real world.

Anyway, from what you said it seems unlikely that she would have recently vaccinated the bitch, so the pup have very low levels of maternal immunity, but maybe just enough to wipe out that first vaccination.

By all means get a titre done, but you should not take the pup out of the house until you get the results, as any vaccination done by the breeder should be considered unreliable (for example: see this story) especially as your dog's hasn't been done in accordance with the manufacturer's guidelines.

For best protection, if you're going to walk your dog in public places,the advantages of vaccination (two doses 3-4 weeks apart, and a first booster 12 months later) hugely outweigh the tiny risk of adverse reaction. You can follow the titre fashion from then on.

boomerang

mobby wrote: »

He would have been about 10 weeks it was Nobivac Dhppi, i was supplied all the details of the vaccine on paper lot number, expiry date etc, and the dog was micro-chipped, I would have no issue with the breeder she has a very good reputation for caring for the health issues with this breed.

A single vaccination at ten weeks old isn't going to offer protection - that shot needs to be boosted 3-4 weeks subsequently. Would have to agree with some posters here that the breeder sounds to be cutting corners. Where is she even getting the vaccines, as these are only available on prescription from a vet.

muddypaws

Sorry OP, but unfortunately your breeder has now ensured that your pup needs an extra vaccination, unless you decide not to bother at all, which, as has been pointed out, means no puppy classes, no boarding kennels etc. No vet is going to accept the breeder's word that the pup has been vaccinated and will want to start the vaccination program from scratch. My vet won't even accept vaccines given in pound by the warden, as they aren't vets.

I have a now 12ish week old pup. Put into the pound at 5 weeks of age. He had his first vaccination after he'd been here for two weeks, then we had to wait 4-6 weeks before the second one, I'd be used to a 2-3 week gap. My vet has recommended that we go back after another 4 weeks for a further booster due to his uncertain beginnings. I'm not sure if I'll do that.

The current vaccination protocol, going on manufacturer's recommendations is puppy shots, booster after a year, then core vaccines every 3 years, except lepto and KC which are annually. My dogs get Lepto4 as they go to forests all over Ireland, the UK and mainland Europe. There have been a lot of stories around Lepto4 but I feel that inmour circumstances it's the right choice for my dogs. A friend in the UK is anti-vacc but recently lost a young husky to lepto so has changed her mind completely and has now vaccinated all of her dogs.

r93kaey5p2izun

My insurance policy insists on up to date vaccinations. Something else to consider. My vet does not recommend routine KC vaccination but I have no choice because of insurance. My dogs are in the river every day and kill rats all the time. I think the Lepto vaccine in particular is essential for them.

mobby

muddypaws wrote: »

Sorry OP, but unfortunately your breeder has now ensured that your pup needs an extra vaccination, unless you decide not to bother at all, which, as has been pointed out, means no puppy classes, no boarding kennels etc. No vet is going to accept the breeder's word that the pup has been vaccinated and will want to start the vaccination program from scratch. My vet won't even accept vaccines given in pound by the warden, as they aren't vets.

I have a now 12ish week old pup. Put into the pound at 5 weeks of age. He had his first vaccination after he'd been here for two weeks, then we had to wait 4-6 weeks before the second one, I'd be used to a 2-3 week gap. My vet has recommended that we go back after another 4 weeks for a further booster due to his uncertain beginnings. I'm not sure if I'll do that.

The current vaccination protocol, going on manufacturer's recommendations is puppy shots, booster after a year, then core vaccines every 3 years, except lepto and KC which are annually. My dogs get Lepto4 as they go to forests all over Ireland, the UK and mainland Europe. There have been a lot of stories around Lepto4 but I feel that inmour circumstances it's the right choice for my dogs. A friend in the UK is anti-vacc but recently lost a young husky to lepto so has changed her mind completely and has now vaccinated all of her dogs.

You see, this is my issue off course that what the drug companies will say they what to sell the stuff. I have had the dog since early December, he has been on beaches and in forests met lots of other dogs, the back garden backs out onto a forest we have all sorts of creatures in and out, so far all i can say is he is thriving be it his food or what or maybe "God Forbid" the breeder is correct and she does breed fantastic pups or maybe i have just been lucky so far. He will be with the Vet next week so i will see what the views are, of course i have concerns otherwise i would not be writing this I have no problem bringing him for a checkup to the Vet, nice people our local Vet (some of them anyway) But there are different opinions and thoughts on this issue and i am just looking for information. BTW we never had or previous dog in a kennel or at puppy classes and i hope it will be the same now,there is always someone at home. The breeder has offered to take him anytime if we do require it. one thing i will have no problem with is him being neutered in a year.

r93kaey5p2izun

Don't you think if the manufacturer just wanted the money that badly they'd recommend boosters every year not every three years??

mobby

Kaylin Salty Mat wrote: »

Don't you think if the manufacturer just wanted the money that badly they'd recommend boosters every year not every three years??

Fair Point, but leptospirosis still requires an annual vaccination.

muddypaws

mobby wrote: »

Fair Point, but leptospirosis still requires an annual vaccination.

Because it does, if it didn't, it would be the same as the rest surely.

tk123

OP in your suituation i’d get him titre tested and take it from there. If your Vet uses Axiom labs they can take the sample and send it off - the test is called Vaccicheck and costs around €50-60 - compared to other labs charging almost €200. The fact that you’ve had him out and about would suggest that he’s already been exposed and his immune system coped fine.

It was actually the lepto vaccine making my girl sick that made the decision to stop vaccinating for me. I had been taked into it that year but stopped after that. None of us have died of lepto yet

Bells21

A jewellery maker that I follow on Facebook has a tiny chihuahua that's 5 years old and very healthy. Just had the annual booster and she has posted on Facebook this morning that the dog has had seizures during the night. She cannot find any other reason/link that could have/would have caused this in her dog. Many have advised her to look into titre testing to help inform her what the best decision for her dog is in the future.

Springwell

Bells21 wrote: »

A jewellery maker that I follow on Facebook has a tiny chihuahua that's 5 years old and very healthy. Just had the annual booster and she has posted on Facebook this morning that the dog has had seizures during the night. She cannot find any other reason/link that could have/would have caused this in her dog. Many have advised her to look into titre testing to help inform her what the best decision for her dog is in the future.

Tiny Chihuahua is the hint - for small dogs, particularly runt "teacups" they live on a metabolic knife edge and stress such as just visiting the vets for vaccination can tip them over the edge into liver issues which lead to the seizures. If the unfortunate dog dies they are often sent for independent postmortem at the cost of the vaccination company, I've yet to see one reported back as a genuine vaccination reaction and not a poor breeding/metabolic issue

Knine

Springwell wrote: »

Tiny Chihuahua is the hint - for small dogs, particularly runt "teacups" they live on a metabolic knife edge and stress such as just visiting the vets for vaccination can tip them over the edge into liver issues which lead to the seizures. If the unfortunate dog dies they are often sent for independent postmortem at the cost of the vaccination company, I've yet to see one reported back as a genuine vaccination reaction and not a poor breeding/metabolic issue

She never said it was a runt or poorly bred specimen. Chi's are small. I have had a lovely pup react to a vaccine and I can assure you he is a lovely specimen of the breed. Another dog I know went into cardiac arrest within minutes of the vaccine. The dog was brought back and never got another booster.

muddypaws

Unfortunately some dogs do have adverse reactions to vaccinations, some have reactions to medication or anaesthetic. It's weighing up the risks against those associated with contracting the diseases.

I hope the chi is ok.

CelticRambler

muddypaws wrote: »

I have a now 12ish week old pup. Put into the pound at 5 weeks of age. He had his first vaccination after he'd been here for two weeks, then we had to wait 4-6 weeks before the second one, I'd be used to a 2-3 week gap. My vet has recommended that we go back after another 4 weeks for a further booster due to his uncertain beginnings.

The final "puppy" vaccination should be at no less than twelve weeks of age, as circulating maternal immunity can destroy the vaccine when given before this age. Same reason that children need a measles vaccine even if they've had one at 9 months in the face of an outbreak.

muddypaws wrote: »

The current vaccination protocol, going on manufacturer's recommendations is puppy shots, booster after a year, then core vaccines every 3 years, except lepto and KC which are annually. My dogs get Lepto4 as they go to forests all over Ireland, the UK and mainland Europe.

Depending on where you go in Europe, you should at least consider vaccinations against Babesiosis (tick-borne, in cooler damper climates) and/or Leishmaniasis (transmitted by mosquitoes and sandflies, warmer, drier climates) Both of these are on the increase due to changing weather patterns. They're also much more prevalent - and serious - than rabies, but often missed by the dog's regular vet unless they're familiar with "exotic" diseases.

However, if your trips to the continent are relatively short and infrequent, good external parasite control is probably going to be more practical and effective than vaccination.

CelticRambler

mobby wrote: »

I have had the dog since early December, he has been on beaches and in forests met lots of other dogs, the back garden backs out onto a forest we have all sorts of creatures in and out, so far all i can say is he is thriving be it his food or what or maybe "God Forbid" the breeder is correct and she does breed fantastic pups or maybe i have just been lucky so far.

Yes, you have. Vaccination is the biological equivalent of wearing a seat-belt. Sure, you can not wear a seat belt when you drive, and most of the time you'll still be alive when you get to your destination. And yes, in an accident, some people suffer injuries due to the belt itself. But overall, the risk of being seriously injured by not wearing a belt is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay higher than the minor inconvenience of wearing it.

The same goes for you dog. If there's no parvo in your back garden, the pup won't get parvo. Until the day he does. Then he'll die. That's not "opinion" - it's biological fact.

mobby wrote: »

one thing i will have no problem with is him being neutered in a year.

:eek: So you are going to have him neutered? Despite the risk of him dying under anaesthetic, or having a post-op infection, or contracting a fatal illness from a sick animal that turns up in the clinic that day?

None of those things are likely to happen (except maybe catching parvo from another dog because your pup isn't vaccinated :rolleyes:) but the risk is considerably higher than the pup suffering a reaction to two doses of a vaccine that's proven to be safe and beneficial.

It makes no sense.

mobby wrote: »

leptospirosis still requires an annual vaccination.

Leptospirosis is a bacterium; it doesn't provoke as good an immune response as the (modified live) viruses used in the DHP vaccines.

Simple science.

Bells21 wrote: »

... has a tiny chihuahua that's 5 years old and very healthy. Just had the annual booster ... has had seizures during the night. She cannot find any other reason/link that could have/would have caused this in her dog ...

I've worked with a chihuahua breeder who fully vaccinates his adults every year, and vaccinates all his pups against parvo at 5, 7, 9 and 12 weeks (yes, four doses). Why? Because he brought the parvo disease home from a show a few years ago, lost several breeding bitches, and dozens and dozens of pups to the disease - the same one the dogsnaturally journalist says isn't around any more. :mad:

It took him two years (and thousands of doses of vaccine) to get the problem under control. Vaccine reactions to date: zero.

Bells21

Springwell wrote:

Tiny Chihuahua is the hint - for small dogs, particularly runt "teacups" they live on a metabolic knife edge and stress such as just visiting the vets for vaccination can tip them over the edge into liver issues which lead to the seizures. If the unfortunate dog dies they are often sent for independent postmortem at the cost of the vaccination company, I've yet to see one reported back as a genuine vaccination reaction and not a poor breeding/metabolic issue

Apologies, tiny was from my perspective not a runt etc. As I mentioned, the dog is perfectly healthy and appears to be well used to many different situations as she often has the dog with her at business meetings/lunches etc, I know a vet is a different set up but couldn't imagine it being stressed to the point that the dog would end up having seizures.
Thankfully the dog only had one seizure and appears to have come out of it quite quickly.

mooseknunkle

This thread kinda has me a bit worried i always took vaccinations as granted my dog is 2 and is due his boosters this month,hes a big german shepherd cross and gets extremely nervous in the vets the last time we were there was around this time last year and after we got home i noticed a lump on his side where he got the injection after a day or two it swelled bigger and i brought him back,i seen a different vet in the same practice and she just said maybe he had a bad reaction from the injection and gave him antibiotics,dont know if i should go back this month now..

Nody

muddypaws wrote: »

Unfortunately some dogs do have adverse reactions to vaccinations, some have reactions to medication or anaesthetic. It's weighing up the risks against those associated with contracting the diseases.

I hope the chi is ok.

We have a cat who was claimed to be having reactions to vaccinations as reason to not have vaccination updated; turned out not to be the case but simple stress as we got her full vaccinated without any effect. Had another cat who did have an adverse reaction to the first shot and started to drool, got lethargic etc. but once again were fine on the second vaccination shot. A friend has a cat who simply can't go into a vet without going completely and utterly insane drooling, foaming and become a complete wild cat to the point of needing to have anaesthetics to be handled. Obviously can't get shots at vet due to this but can take them when a vet comes home to them.

In short the excuse of a potential bad reaction compared to the effect of not having it can be summed up in this video by Penn & Teller.

Is there a risk for adverse reaction? Yes; but the risk of not having the shots are way greater and the pain your companion will go through if they caught it is far more distressing. Naturally if a dog shows an actual allergic reaction an alternative vaccination routine to protect them instead will be required but that's going to be the odd case out rather than the standard route. Especially as people keep happily feeding dry commercial foods of dubious quality (esp. those going for the cheaper end with plenty of grain and fillers from supermarkets etc.) which are produced to look good but is not but oh deary me vaccinations are bad and should be avoided because that is all for profit. If people want to go anti vaccination then they should also be serving only home made food as well because the same risks of adverse reactions to the chemicals in the food they serve is there as well.

muddypaws

CelticRambler wrote: »

The final "puppy" vaccination should be at no less than twelve weeks of age, as circulating maternal immunity can destroy the vaccine when given before this age. Same reason that children need a measles vaccine even if they've had one at 9 months in the face of an outbreak.

So are you saying that he will need another vaccination at 16 weeks?

tk123

mooseknunkle wrote: »

This thread kinda has me a bit worried i always took vaccinations as granted my dog is 2 and is due his boosters this month,hes a big german shepherd cross and gets extremely nervous in the vets the last time we were there was around this time last year and after we got home i noticed a lump on his side where he got the injection after a day or two it swelled bigger and i brought him back,i seen a different vet in the same practice and she just said maybe he had a bad reaction from the injection and gave him antibiotics,dont know if i should go back this month now..

Just get him tested and then make up your mind based on the results. Contrary to what some some of the posts here suggest - they do actually have an immune system. Like ourselves lol which is why we don’t get our baby vaccinations every few years. There are plenty of Vets who do not advocate boosting and believe one course is enough for life... but they must be wrong I guess or not proper vets.

Nody

tk123 wrote: »

Just get him tested and then make up your mind based on the results. Contrary to what some some of the posts here suggest - they do actually have an immune system. Like ourselves lol which is why we don’t get our baby vaccinations every few years. There are plenty of Vets who do not advocate boosting and believe one course is enough for life... but they must be wrong I guess or not proper vets.

There are also vets who thinks commercial dry food like RC or Hills is the best on the market; being a vet does not make them right on every question. Will some animals have enough antibodies for a life time? Sure. Will that work for EVERY animal? No way.

As for baby vaccinations; you get a shot for Hep A & B as a child; guess what you're recommended to take a new vaccination of regularly and keep up to date if you go travelling? Measles? Yea baby shot but going into an area with it? Booster shot time. Polio? Booster time if it's an risk area etc. so I guess that argument went out the window.

Bells21

mooseknunkle wrote:

This thread kinda has me a bit worried i always took vaccinations as granted my dog is 2 and is due his boosters this month,hes a big german shepherd cross and gets extremely nervous in the vets the last time we were there was around this time last year and after we got home i noticed a lump on his side where he got the injection after a day or two it swelled bigger and i brought him back,i seen a different vet in the same practice and she just said maybe he had a bad reaction from the injection and gave him antibiotics,dont know if i should go back this month now..

That may have been from the actual needle itself, the body could be over reacting to a foreign object. We had something similar after one of ours had an op, lumps came up in the place where she had injections for pain, anti biotics etc. Vet mentioned that she was most likely over sensitive to foreign objects in the body which made sense as they had to go back in and remove the thread that they'd used on her knee to stabilise it too as it had started to cause inflammation and issues.

tk123

Nody wrote: »

There are also vets who thinks commercial dry food like RC or Hills is the best on the market; being a vet does not make them right on every question. Will some animals have enough antibodies for a life time? Sure. Will that work for EVERY animal? No way.

As for baby vaccinations; you get a shot for Hep A & B as a child; guess what you're recommended to take a new vaccination of regularly and keep up to date if you go travelling? Measles? Yea baby shot but going into an area with it? Booster shot time. Polio? Booster time if it's an risk area etc. so I guess that argument went out the window.

I’m not arguing anything nor am I travelling to the third would so I don’t need any extra vaccinations thanks. Also the Vets who advocate against over-vaccinating generally advocate against dry foods.

Nody

tk123 wrote: »

I’m not arguing anything nor am I travelling to the third would so I don’t need any extra vaccinations thanks. Also the Vets who advocate against over-vaccinating generally advocate against dry foods.

Actually going to UK you should consider it as they don't do Hep B by default; same is true for Southern or Eastern Europe for example of areas were it's recommended as well. In fact Hep A & B is in general one of those default vaccines you should always consider keeping up to date even in Ireland (since you don't know if someone is infected or not and could get it simply as blood transfusion in a hospital) along with Tetanus shots (since you're dealing with animals a lot).

But we're digressing from the original question here so I'll end my side of this argument with the above on the topic of human inoculation and apologize for taking it partly off topic.

CelticRambler

muddypaws wrote: »

So are you saying that he will need another vaccination at 16 weeks?

If the last vaccination he had was before 12 weeks of age, then yes.

Maternal immunity can usually be relied upon until about 5-6 weeks; after that, it will drop off quickly, but no-one can predict when. In some pups, that'll be about 6-7 weeks (which is why many breeders give a first parvo injection at this age); in others it'll be around 10-12 weeks, which is why the traditional age for completing the primary/puppy course has been 12 weeks. However, a recent worldwide review of cat and dog vaccination found that in better protected pups - i.e. the ones born to regularly vaccinated mothers - maternal immunity was destroying the first two vaccines and the pups were not protected. The number of these was considered sufficiently high to justify giving a third vaccination at 16 weeks, especially if the second vaccination had been given before 12 weeks.

This is the same group that recommended reducing the interval for core vaccines to every three years (full details available on the wsava site linked above).

tk123

No go away Nody - i’d be like a pin cushion

My friend’s dog reacted to whatever brand they stock at the local vets here but I don’t know if that’s just a Basset thing..

CelticRambler

tk123 wrote: »

Contrary to what some some of the posts here suggest - they do actually have an immune system.

Who's suggesting that anyone doesn't have an immune system?

A vaccine can only work if the animal has a functional immune system. :P

But the animal's immune system can only respond to germs that attack it. The point of vaccination is to make sure the animal comes into contact with germs that it may not meet very often, but that cause very serious illness.

muddypaws

CelticRambler wrote: »

If the last vaccination he had was before 12 weeks of age, then yes.

Maternal immunity can usually be relied upon until about 5-6 weeks; after that, it will drop off quickly, but no-one can predict when. In some pups, that'll be about 6-7 weeks (which is why many breeders give a first parvo injection at this age); in others it'll be around 10-12 weeks, which is why the traditional age for completing the primary/puppy course has been 12 weeks. However, a recent worldwide review of cat and dog vaccination found that in better protected pups - i.e. the ones born to regularly vaccinated mothers - maternal immunity was destroying the first two vaccines and the pups were not protected. The number of these was considered sufficiently high to justify giving a third vaccination at 16 weeks, especially if the second vaccination had been given before 12 weeks.

This is the same group that recommended reducing the interval for core vaccines to every three years (full details available on the wsava site linked above).

As we don't know exactly how old he is, we erred on the side of caution when starting his vaccinations so he was at least 12 weeks as my vet won't do it before that. My vet usually does parvo as a standalone at 6 weeks, then goes on from there, Diefer didn't get that which is why the vet is suggesting a last one at 16 weeks.

CelticRambler

That's what I'd do. Better safe than mopping up bloody diarrhoea in three months' time!