Dublin bus city centre fair... discontinued from today

clarsax

Very unfair that DB have discontinued their city centre fare. Was very handy if in town and only needed a couple of stops. Now minimum fare is €1.50

devnull

There is a new LUAS City Centre fare to partially offset this.

However the removal of the Bus City Centre fare is part of an ongoing streamlining of fare bands to set-up bus services in Dublin for a much more streamlined fare structure in line with most other European countries.

clarsax

While I understand this the DB fare was 60c and the luas is €1 and obviously the DB routes would cover a much larger area than the luas.

XPS_Zero

Would this be a purposeful thing to stop CC travelers from hogging DB space (keeping it for longer journey passengers) and get them onto faster Luas's with more space for their short in-CC jaunt? or am I giving them too much credit planning wise?

Do the two not cover the same area in the CC no?

magicbastarder

clarsax wrote: »

While I understand this the DB fare was 60c

can someone confirm this? i thought the city centre fare was €1?

devnull

magicbastarder wrote: »

can someone confirm this? i thought the city centre fare was €1?

It was 60c on Leap Card and 65c on cash if I remember correctly.

Spanish Eyes

Seems to me that most of us are not informed by any mode. We just click the LEAP and go.

I thought there was a city centre fare for LUAS. But the buses will always be the Alabama of Dublin. Sorry to say it, but there we are. Despite the fact that most journeys are on DB.

liger

devnull wrote: »

It was 60c on Leap Card and 65c on cash if I remember correctly.

75c cash 60c leap.

fritzelly

devnull wrote: »

streamlining of fare bands to set-up bus services in Dublin for a much more streamlined fare structure in line with most other European countries.

If only!

n97 mini

In fairness I never understood the logic behind the city centre fare being only in the city centre. It should have been extended, not scrapped. Where I live (not the city centre) a lot more people would use the bus for short journeys if it was 60c. At €1.50 they'll walk. I would imagine this is the same for many suburbs in Dublin, where people just want to do a short local trip.

AlekSmart

devnull wrote: »

There is a new LUAS City Centre fare to partially offset this.

However the removal of the Bus City Centre fare is part of an ongoing streamlining of fare bands to set-up bus services in Dublin for a much more streamlined fare structure in line with most other European countries.

It may be worth noting that the elimination of the City Fare (Introduced as a Temporary stop-gap measure to facilitate LUAS BXD Construction) is the first direct element of the Busconnects Plan to actually be rolled out.

It has begun ! :eek:

Stephen15

I wonder did many play the system and pay 60c and say they were to SSG but really they were going much further than . Having a fare as low as 60c seemed very open to abuse to me you could go as far as Blessington or Balbriggan for only 60c very easily if you had the balls to do it.

I think a flat fare is the way to go in my opinion as it would be the most practical system if cashless buses were introduced free of driver interaction. If you subsidised it enough you may be able to get it as low as maybe €2 flat fare.

ITV2

devnull wrote: »

It was 60c on Leap Card and 65c on cash if I remember correctly.

Cash fare was 75c Devnull

cgcsb

n97 mini wrote: »

In fairness I never understood the logic behind the city centre fare being only in the city centre. It should have been extended, not scrapped. Where I live (not the city centre) a lot more people would use the bus for short journeys if it was 60c. At €1.50 they'll walk. I would imagine this is the same for many suburbs in Dublin, where people just want to do a short local trip.

I don't think they actually want MORE people getting the bus, the system is over capacity at the minute due to lack of road space and lack of rail options.

devnull

It was abused for sure but some drivers would stop the bus telling people they would not move till they get off which delayed everyone on the bus.

It was a useful feature to fill empty capacity in the recession but now the operator probably doesn't gain much from it other than taking capacity away from people taking longer trips.

Unfortunately to move to a flat fare system outliers like the city centre fare at the bottom end and the suburban fare system at the top end.were always going to have to go.

Stephen15

devnull wrote: »

It was abused for sure but some drivers would stop the bus telling people they would not move till they get off which delayed everyone on the bus.

That's a stupid move by the drivers IMO. That would be similar to a Luas driver stopping the tram and announcing over the PA "This trams going nowhere until all the fare evaders get off". I don't understand why a driver would do that now it's never happened me on a bus but it's not a driver would be displined if they didn't do it. Drivers should just drive the bus and nothing else IMO.

I don't get why a driver would even care if someone if didn't pay it seems a bit silly as it's not like him/her would be fired if they let a passenger get on without paying.

bk

Stephen15 wrote: »

That's a stupid move by the drivers IMO. That would be similar to a Luas driver stopping the tram and announcing over the PA "This trams going nowhere until all the fare evaders get off". I don't understand why a driver would do that now it's never happened me on a bus but it's not a driver would be displined if they didn't do it. Drivers should just drive the bus and nothing else IMO.

I don't get why a driver would even care if someone if didn't pay it seems a bit silly as it's not like him/her would be fired if they let a passenger get on without paying.

I would assume that some drivers take pride in the service they offer and don't like seeing thieves get away with theft.

Stephen15

bk wrote: »

I would assume that some drivers take pride in the service they offer and don't like seeing thieves get away with theft.

Well the same could be said about train drivers but they can't as they are stuck in a cab and don't actually know if a passenger has paid or not. I've been on buses on the continent and fare evaders have got on and the driver never noticed or cared it should be the same here as it wasn't his responsibility to take fares or monitor if passengers had paid or not.

It's unfair on passengers who have paid if a driver decides to delay because of fare evaders. Fare evaders should be dealt with by revenue protection staff only and not drivers.

bk

Stephen15 wrote: »

Well the same could be said about train drivers but they can't as they are stuck in a cab and don't actually know if a passenger has paid or not. I've been on buses on the continent and fare evaders have got on and the driver never noticed or cared it should be the same here as it wasn't his responsibility to take fares or monitor if passengers had paid or not.

It's unfair on passengers who have paid if a driver decides to delay because of fare evaders. Fare evaders should be dealt with by revenue protection staff only and not drivers.

I agree completely, there is a very different mindset in DB/BE then what you are see in mainland Europe.

Here DB/BE seem to be overly obsessed with having drivers sell tickets and enforce fare evasion, even if it slows down the journey for the majority of honest fare paying passengers. You can see that from them not wanting to operate dual door/multi door buses for years and the lack of flat fare, etc.

The mindset in mainland Europe is completely different. The only job of the driver is driving the bus safely and quickly. The focus is getting passengers from a to b as quickly as possible, thus multi-door buses, enter/exit through any door, zero driver interaction ticketing, all which lead to slower dwell times and faster costumer journey times.

Fare evasion is solely dealt with by ticket inspectors and big fines. I believe in most cases the revenue brought in by them is more then enough to cover for lost fares + their wages.

I'd much rather see this system here, like we do on the Luas.

ArmaniJeanss

Our work place is about 2 stops past the city centre zone - an Indian lad in the job used to get on in O'Connell St, whichever of the 11,46a,140 would arrive first and pay city centre fare and blag the 2 extra stops.
One day I saw him in O'Connell St not getting on an 11 despite being at the stop (the old 11 stop near the Gresham) and he told me afterwards that the driver was one of those whose bus he couldn't get on as the driver was strict about city centres fares and had thrown him off previously.

In my head I've always though the driver was likely our AlekS which made me laugh even more about it.

devnull

There was one lady who used to drive out of Phibsborough who would pull up people almost every time I was on her bus if they were over-riding - how she managed to remember what stop they got on all the time is past me.

But as others have said, quickly it becomes annoying when a bus is stopped for 10+ minutes or more making you late for work or missing a connection for example because a passenger won't leave the bus.

Evasion on Dublin Bus historically had three main types
1) Non students using student tickets
2) Over-riding
3) Free travel pass fraud

Now the first has been cut down on substantially by only allowing those with Student Leap Cards to avail of student pricing and the third one has been cut down somewhat by using smart cards, although it won't be totally foolproof until the paper passes are no longer accepted.

The over-riding one certainly will become less attractive on ex City Center journeys now due to this change, but having a flat fare system will permanently kill this kind of fraud off because you can't over-ride when there is only one fare to begin with.

In the absence of flat fare systems, the only real way you can avoid over-riding is by having big fines and increased inspections. In thousands of trips using the bus I've seen an inspector in single figure times and the fines are so low that even if you get caught once or twice a year, you'll still have saved enough to be worth your while.

The real issues with evasion though are on Irish Rail - but that's another topic.

Stephen15

devnull wrote: »

In the absence of flat fare systems, the only real way you can avoid over-riding is by having big fines and increased inspections. In thousands of trips using the bus I've seen an inspector in single figure times and the fines are so low that even if you get caught once or twice a year, you'll still have saved enough to be worth your while.

Agreed I think the NTA needs to set up its own revenue protection unit in order to combat this and not DBs poor attempt of having drivers do it. It will be interesting to see how revenue protection is done by GAD once they take over the routes. My suggestion would be NTA revenue protection teams which across all the Luas, DB buses and GAD buses similar to TFL inspectors which operate on all London bus operators.

Stephen15

devnull wrote: »

There was one lady who used to drive out of Phibsborough who would pull up people almost every time I was on her bus if they were over-riding - how she managed to remember what stop they got on all the time is past me.

I always thought that women bus drivers are all mostly there because they enjoy and take some sort of pride in their jobs as it is not a job a women would typically look to do unless they sought for it. Which has its pros and cons because if you like your job too much you'll try to do everything to perfection and wear your heart on your sleeve a bit much which what that women you are talking about sounds to me like.

If I was a passenger on that bus I would be annoyed and would complain to DB. That behaviour to me is border line jobsworth.

dashcamdanny

Stephen15 wrote: »

Well the same could be said about train drivers but they can't as they are stuck in a cab and don't actually know if a passenger has paid or not. I've been on buses on the continent and fare evaders have got on and the driver never noticed or cared it should be the same here as it wasn't his responsibility to take fares or monitor if passengers had paid or not.

It's unfair on passengers who have paid if a driver decides to delay because of fare evaders. Fare evaders should be dealt with by revenue protection staff only and not drivers.

Been with DB for 14 months now.

I have never had revenue on my bus. I have not even seen them on the streets or garage.

I was told so much about these ghost revenue protectors at the training school, but it seems they either dont go out at weekends or dont go into under privileged area bus routes.
I am amazed so many people actually pay anything. Literally zero chance of getting caught.

I personally dont care anymore. If they dont pay at all, I hit the button and ask the controller what to do.

Stephen15

dashcamdanny wrote: »

Been with DB for 14 months now.

I have never had revenue on my bus. I have not even seen them on the streets or garage.

I was told so much about these ghost revenue protectors at the training school, but it seems they either dont go out at weekends or dont go into under privileged area bus routes.
I am amazed so many people actually pay anything. Literally zero chance of getting caught.

I personally dont care anymore. If they dont pay at all, I hit the button and ask the controller what to do.

Well maybe they are honest.

In the last two years I've actually experienced two inspections as a passenger, once outside Donnybrook Garage and the other time they boarded at Leeson Street before that I hadn't been inspected in over ten years.

LuckyLloyd

Stephen15 wrote: »

I always thought that women bus drivers are all mostly there because they enjoy and take some sort of pride in their jobs as it is not a job a women would typically look to do unless they sought for it. Which has its pros and cons because if you like your job too much you'll try to do everything to perfection and wear your heart on your sleeve a bit much which what that women you are talking about sounds to me like.

If I was a passenger on that bus I would be annoyed and would complain to DB. That behaviour to me is border line jobsworth.

Leaving aside the outright misogynism in this post, the suggestion that bus drivers shouldn’t care about revenue protection is nonsense. It pays their wages like.

Victor

clarsax wrote: »

Very unfair that DB have discontinued their city centre fare. Was very handy if in town and only needed a couple of stops. Now minimum fare is €1.50

If you are using a Leap Card, just tag-on and tag-off at a Luas stop (it may need to be a different stop) every 90 minutes from your first trip into town and there would be no extra charge due to the Leap 90 Discount. https://about.leapcard.ie/leap-90

bebeman

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

the suggestion that bus drivers shouldn’t care about revenue protection is nonsense. It pays their wages like.

Why should we care? DB and The NTA dont!
The reason there is no more ticket checks with 1 inspector and 2 drivers is because it has been deemed unnecessary by the powers that be, there is no problem with fare evasion
We all know that is BS but here we are , 1 team of revenue protection for the entire DB network, they seldom venture out beyond the canals, and dont work on late shift, it is a total joke.

Carawaystick

XPS_Zero wrote: »

Do the two not cover the same area in the CC no?

The 4 directions trams go do not cover the multitude of directions busses go